Astrojanitor Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 You didn't answer the question, just avoided it Yea well, same basic players, less injuries and the defense went from bad to horrid ... #2 against the pass last year, what changed.? what doesn't help the defense is that the offense is so intent on passing that they don't even try to run the ball or can't, which would help in every aspect, time of possession, keep the defense on the bench to keep them fresh Most everyone posting in this forum last season thought the Bills had a bad offensive line but its biggest problem was all the injuries, the only player that played in every game was the center, Hangartner. This year, without all the injuries,this line is even worse then last years, and that says a lot with the offense stuck in a perennial game of catch-up the emphasis needs to be on passing. The offense can not risk not getting points knowing the other team will very easily get at least 3 on the next possession. I would imagine the offense would look different if given some breathing room. Although I do not feel the Offense is great by any stretch, I can say I see a huge improvement. Trent used to work to get to the red zone...Fitz works to get to the end zone. Everything is still a mess--O Line included--but the offense has at least become functional. First two games were 3 and outs every possession. Now points are going on the board. Improving? Yes. Good? Not really. Freshness is not the defense's problem. it's not like they are stopping anything in the first quarter. They have become useless for the entire 60 minutes. What changed? Perry left. I don't know what Fewell was doing, but looking back I think we need to give him more credit.
Adam Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Give Freddy 25 carries...EVERY GAME. Then we'll see what this offense can really do. It will be a Nightmare on Southwestern Blvd.........
Guest dog14787 Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) The Jets controlled the ball for 40+ min and the Bills had the ball for19 min, that is pathetic. The thing is... the Dolphins in that first game of the season came out run blitzing and spying Spiller to take him out of the game, and then to the Dolphins surprise they found they could easily run / pass blitz and the Bills protection schemes were so bad that they couldn't stop them in any aspect. The QB had around 2 seconds or less to get rid of the ball, the RB's were getting hit in the backfield as soon as they got the hand off and were tackled for a loss on almost every running play. Spiller was the feature back and had 7 attempts for 6 yards and the longest run was 6 years. That means the RB was successful only on ONE running play. The head coach made no adjustments, no changes, he just kept trying to run his offense and throw the ball out of the shotgun formation 75% of the offensive plays. Basically telling the opponent we are going to pass, try and stop us. I know that the Dolphins game is simply that, one game, but that one game is a microcosm of what is wrong with this offense and head coach. I don't think this guy is purposely trying to lose games to get that first overall next year, although it sure looks that way to some. Go back to 2 years ago when he was the OC for the 2-14 KC Chiefs, the QB played pretty well when healthy and put up some decent stats considering how bad the offense was. That 08 KC offense played almost exactly the same way the Bills are currently playing. Like the Mike Martz passing offense it appears that Gailey's offense almost always has the QB in constant duress situations. Constantly trying to throw the ball like the Bills have Tom Brady back there behind the center. Gailey did try and run the ball more against the Packers, which at the time didn't seem to bright a ploy because that very same Packer defense was #1 against the run the year before. The Bills had some success running the ball on one drive, but then failed to move the ball on the ground on a regular basis the rest of the game, which was putting the QB under duress and in constant long yardage situations, which then put him at the mercy of that Packer pass rush and more specifically Clay Mathews. My take is this new head coach is no better then Turk Schonert or AVP in calling plays or setting up game plans, he wasn't even bright enough to see that Fred Jackson is by far the best RB on his team. Fred Jackson is so good a RB that he actually does make the O line look like its blocking better, even though the O line is actually blocking worse this season that last years. This HC is simply mentality retarded for not building the offensive game plan around the guy. Bottom line: the Bills thought they were hiring an offensive guru who was supposed to make the offense better...he didn't, it isn't !! Last season the O line had the excuse of all those Injuries, This year this team is playing worse then the Jauron's teams riddled with injuries the last 3 seasons. Even with 20+ players out injured on Jaurons teams played better then this years team, that is sad. The owner and FO keeps stating like a broken record that its the players that lack talent....he said it last year and now again this year, but who is doing the drafting? This same basic scouting dept has been there for 8 years and the same results, bad draft after bad draft. The talent is lacking on the sidelines (coaches) and in the front office (scouting dept) and an owner who remains president even after failing to get his team to the playoffs for a decade. For what its worth the Bills offense ranked 25th in the 2008-2009 season, rushing ranked 15th (and has hovered at the middle of the pack for the last three seasons), passing ranked 22nd and average yardage a game was 305,over 50 yards higher then our current average. By ranking/yardage the Buffalo Bills have regressed over the last three seasons. Bills defense ranked 14th 08-09 (currently 27th) Note : Another interesting fact, from 2002-03 the Bills ranked 9th on offense, from that season on the Bills offense has not ranked above the top 25. Edited October 14, 2010 by dog14787
Green Lightning Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 the defense giving up over 30 points a gam doesn't help Thanks for getting to that before I did. Really, would we have lost to the Browns with this offense? I dont ink so.
ieatcrayonz Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I realize the rankings may be slightly different from site to site, but not enough to change the reality of the situation. Miami Dolphins ranked 7th on defense (QB/TE struggles) Green Bay Packers ranked 13th (QB/TE struggles) New England Patriots ranked 28th (QB/Fitz improvement) New York Jets ranked 11th on defense(QB/ Fitz struggles) Jacksonville Jaguars ranked 30th on defense (QB/ Fitz improvement) The Buffalo Bills are ranked 30th overall in passing, 17th in rushing so far this season. The Jaguars almost doubled the Bills in time of possession in the second half after making necessary adjustments during half time. In my opinion the only improvement so far this season in anything is our bid to obtain the first pick overall in the 2011 draft. Trent's loofah called and it said it misses you.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Thanks for getting to that before I did. Really, would we have lost to the Browns with this offense? I dont ink so. The numbers may suggest a different scenario: Browns Defense ranks 21st giving up 342 yards per game, Bills rank 27th giving up 382 yards per game (Browns +40) Browns offense ranks 25th averaging 301 yards per game, Bills rank 30th averaging 251 yards per game (Browns +50) Browns average points scored per game 15, Bills average points scored per game 17 (Bills +2) Although the Buffalo Bills do win the battle in points scored by 2 so far this season, all other numbers point to the Browns as being the superior team. The numbers suggest to me regardless If its low scoring or high, it will be a knock down drag out with two of the worse teams in the league. Note: I realize you may have meant the Bills this season going up against the Browns of last season, but thought that the current teams would be a more useful comparison. Edited October 15, 2010 by dog14787
Guest dog14787 Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) For what its worth the Bills offense ranked 25th in the 2008-2009 season, rushing ranked 15th (and has hovered at the middle of the pack for the last three seasons), passing ranked 22nd and average yardage a game was 305,over 50 yards higher then our current average. By ranking/yardage the Buffalo Bills have regressed over the last three seasons. Bills defense ranked 14th 08-09 (currently 27th) Note : Another interesting fact, from 2002-03 the Bills ranked 9th on offense, from that season on the Bills offense has not ranked above the top 25. I wanted to see what type of coaching/talent the Bills had on its roster the last time the Bills had a respectable ranking on offense, (2002-2003), Greg Williams was HC and this is some of the names that jump out at me, http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2002.htm QB Drew Bledsoe, WR's Eric Moulds, Josh Reed, Peerless Price, TE Jay Reimersma, RB Travis Henry, FB Larry Centers and we had Reuben Brown at the LT position, What really stands out to me is the talent on the hands department including TE and of course the big arm of Drew Bledsoe. Edited October 15, 2010 by dog14787
finknottle Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Comparing rankings after only five games is iffy, especially since the Bills are one of the five for each of the teams. If you subtract the Edwards games, what are the ranking of the Packers and the Dolphins? What are the rankings of the Pats, Jags, and Jets without the Fitz games? I'd venture to guess that the Packers and Dolphins defenses are not rated quite as highly, and the Patriot and Jaguar defenses not quite so low (the Jets are probably about the same).
Captain Hindsight Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Yup, simply watch. Statistics be damned....we're better this year. Anyone can see that. Agreed. I actually feel confident that our offense could make plays if necessary and the last few years i have had zero confidence in that The last time our offense was this dynamic Mularkey was our HC
Green Lightning Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 The numbers may suggest a different scenario: Browns Defense ranks 21st giving up 342 yards per game, Bills rank 27th giving up 382 yards per game (Browns +40) Browns offense ranks 25th averaging 301 yards per game, Bills rank 30th averaging 251 yards per game (Browns +50) Browns average points scored per game 15, Bills average points scored per game 17 (Bills +2) Although the Buffalo Bills do win the battle in points scored by 2 so far this season, all other numbers point to the Browns as being the superior team. The numbers suggest to me regardless If its low scoring or high, it will be a knock down drag out with two of the worse teams in the league. Note: I realize you may have meant the Bills this season going up against the Browns of last season, but thought that the current teams would be a more useful comparison. Thought I was pretty clear. If we had this year's offense on the field last year we'd have beaten the browns and a few others. As for this year, maybe if we keep them under 30 points we'll do ok.
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 The numbers may suggest a different scenario: Browns Defense ranks 21st giving up 342 yards per game, Bills rank 27th giving up 382 yards per game (Browns +40) Browns offense ranks 25th averaging 301 yards per game, Bills rank 30th averaging 251 yards per game (Browns +50) Browns average points scored per game 15, Bills average points scored per game 17 (Bills +2) Although the Buffalo Bills do win the battle in points scored by 2 so far this season, all other numbers point to the Browns as being the superior team. The numbers suggest to me regardless If its low scoring or high, it will be a knock down drag out with two of the worse teams in the league. Note: I realize you may have meant the Bills this season going up against the Browns of last season, but thought that the current teams would be a more useful comparison. The bills and browns played VERY different teams this year.... that is not a good comparison.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 The bills and browns played VERY different teams this year.... that is not a good comparison. If you like trending better the Bills have ranked 25th or worse on offense over the last 8 seasons. We're bad, the Browns are bad, when we play its a battle to see who's the worse team in the NFL. If you can sugar coat that somehow then by all means go for it. Thought I was pretty clear. If we had this year's offense on the field last year we'd have beaten the browns and a few others. As for this year, maybe if we keep them under 30 points we'll do ok. Yup, I did make a note of it
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 If you like trending better the Bills have ranked 25th or worse on offense over the last 8 seasons. We're bad, the Browns are bad, when we play its a battle to see who's the worse team in the NFL. If you can sugar coat that somehow then by all means go for it. There is no way to sugarcoat it. But trying to argue that the browns being slightly better in the first 5 games can't prove whether or not the offense is improving or has improved. You could compare the offense to the raiders, colts, etc. The only team you can compare it to in order to see if it has improved is the bills themselves. You can either compare the bills week by week to see if they improved, you can compare them to last years team, but if you compare the bills and browns together, you aren't going to be able to tell if the bills are improving or not. If you think your question can be answered by comparing the bills/browns, then you are crazy. The browns have nothing to do with the bills so far this season and have face completly different oppenents and have had completly different issues. the only thing that post of yours proves is that both the bills and browns both suck.... if it took stats for you to figure that one out, then lucky you, you probably didn't watch either team play this year. The offense? It isn't getting better results. But it is obviously a new system with certain areas improving. More shots down the field, roscoe parrish being an impact player, getting TDs instead of settleing for field goals all the time, less turnovers, etc. It might not be a good offense, in fact, it is terrible, but it has more potential than other offenses we have had. This offense could develop into something that is productive after the players get used to it. But, that is just potential and it might never bring the results it should. But at least it has potential, which is better than being stuck with the same crappy offense for four years under jauron. by year 2, it was obvious that it wasn't going to work.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Freddy and CJ need to be our dynamic duo and I can see it happening if our LBs can ever step up enough to let Chan feel comfortable enough not to go to the pass so much. Bowery, sorry, not following. Why is it we need our linebackers to step up enough in order for Chan to call a more balanced offensive game (more run)? Walk me through this one, if you please.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) There is no way to sugarcoat it. But trying to argue that the browns being slightly better in the first 5 games can't prove whether or not the offense is improving or has improved. You could compare the offense to the raiders, colts, etc. The only team you can compare it to in order to see if it has improved is the bills themselves. You can either compare the bills week by week to see if they improved, you can compare them to last years team, but if you compare the bills and browns together, you aren't going to be able to tell if the bills are improving or not. If you think your question can be answered by comparing the bills/browns, then you are crazy. The browns have nothing to do with the bills so far this season and have face completly different oppenents and have had completly different issues. the only thing that post of yours proves is that both the bills and browns both suck.... if it took stats for you to figure that one out, then lucky you, you probably didn't watch either team play this year. The offense? It isn't getting better results. But it is obviously a new system with certain areas improving. More shots down the field, roscoe parrish being an impact player, getting TDs instead of settleing for field goals all the time, less turnovers, etc. It might not be a good offense, in fact, it is terrible, but it has more potential than other offenses we have had. This offense could develop into something that is productive after the players get used to it. But, that is just potential and it might never bring the results it should. But at least it has potential, which is better than being stuck with the same crappy offense for four years under jauron. by year 2, it was obvious that it wasn't going to work. I'm not the one that originally suggested the Bills are better then the Browns, If you read the thread I simply pointed out there's really nothing to suggest the offense has improved or that we can beat the Browns. So I'm not sure what your argument is here Dan, I did compare the current Bills to the Bills of old and we are worse, now how does that or anything for that matter suggest we can beat the Browns. Edited October 16, 2010 by dog14787
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 I'm not the one that originally suggested the Bills are better then the Browns, If you read the thread I simply pointed out there's really nothing to suggest the offense has improved or that we can beat the Browns. So I'm not sure what your argument is here Dan, I did compare the current Bills to the Bills of old and we are worse, now how does that or anything for that matter suggest we can beat the Browns. So then I don't know what your point was to compare the browns in the context of this thread. Or how stats on yards shows whether or not we can beat the browns. Last year we scored what? 3 points against them? I bet this year, we score at least 10 points on them, win or lose. Offense improved right there.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 So then I don't know what your point was to compare the browns in the context of this thread. Or how stats on yards shows whether or not we can beat the browns. Last year we scored what? 3 points against them? I bet this year, we score at least 10 points on them, win or lose. Offense improved right there. Bet all you want,I'm not arguing with you over nothing and by all accounts our offense has not improved. Someone wants to prove to me they have improved then show me with a win, show me with an increase in yardage per game from last season, show me something, anything...
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) Bet all you want,I'm not arguing with you over nothing and by all accounts our offense has not improved. Someone wants to prove to me they have improved then show me with a win, show me with an increase in yardage per game from last season, show me something, anything... I already did. They have scored more points this season than last. If yards are more important than points to you, then I don't think you understand the game. Not to mention our red zone upoffense is pretty damn awseome right now. I believe our redzone offense is good for a top ten in the league last time I checked. I think our redzone percentage is like ....66%? and our red zone offense last year was like 30%. But yeah, you don't care about points and stuff. Just the yards . And wins is a terrible way to measure the offense. An offense can score a million points, it doesn't matter if a defense lets the other team score a million and 1. You want to see if the offense has improved? Look at stats other than yards or wins. How about you look at things like points, big plays, turnovers, red zone, etc. And this isn't the first time I brought it up to you, yet you keep asking "show me improvement." It is right in front of you dog. Red zone improvement is huge. If you don't think so, then I guess the redzone just isn't an important part of the game to you, for whatever reason. But quite honestly, a lot of people thought the red zone killed us last year. Killed us so bad that the offense would look ok until it got into the redzone and couldn't score. Edited October 16, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Alright, here are some stats for ya. Sorry, it isn't the yards that you enjoy so much: Field Goals made per a game 2010: 1.2 Field Goals made per game 2009: 1.8 Tds scored per a game 2010: 2 Tds Scored per a game 2009: 1.6 Now, what does this prove? It proves that all those people bitched about settleing a for a field goal last year should be happier, because now we are scoring less field goals and more TDs.... does that mean, this offense finally knows how to finish now More TDs = improved offense. But that is just me I guess. More points i guess means, same offense to you. But whatevs. Red Zone Offense: Tied for 9th with New England and Detroit 60% in 2010 only 30% in 2009. that is like, a 100% improvement in 1 year! but.... to you, 100% better isn't really.... better, I guess. Whatevs. And as far as buffalo not being able to beat clevaland.... Buffalo, points per a game 2010: 17.4 Cleveland, points per a game, 2010: 15.6 That right there should show that the bills CAN beat them. You don't need more yards than clevland. You need more points. Right now, we score more points than them per a game. Interceptions thrown per a game 2010, good for 11th best in the nfl, tied with SD: .8 2009: 1.2 Wait a minute... we throw LESS interceptions this year.... and that is not improvement? I guess our team can just go ahead and throw interceptions, becuase throwing more won't be a step backwards since throwing less isn't improvement by your standards. And was is crazy about the interception thing is.... we throw a lot more per a game than we did last year... yet we still have less interceptions? This offense still sucks, but if you can't see the improvement in the stats, then you are just stuck on the yards.... and yards are not the end all and be all of an offense. This offense might suck, but it is improved from last year. If you can't see it, then oh well. now the defense.... now there is something to really B word about.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 I already did. They have scored more points this season than last. If yards are more important than points to you, then I don't think you understand the game. Not to mention our red zone upoffense is pretty damn awseome right now. I believe our redzone offense is good for a top ten in the league last time I checked. I think our redzone percentage is like ....66%? and our red zone offense last year was like 30%. But yeah, you don't care about points and stuff. Just the yards . And wins is a terrible way to measure the offense. An offense can score a million points, it doesn't matter if a defense lets the other team score a million and 1. You want to see if the offense has improved? Look at stats other than yards or wins. How about you look at things like points, big plays, turnovers, red zone, etc. And this isn't the first time I brought it up to you, yet you keep asking "show me improvement." It is right in front of you dog. Red zone improvement is huge. If you don't think so, then I guess the redzone just isn't an important part of the game to you, for whatever reason. But quite honestly, a lot of people thought the red zone killed us last year. Killed us so bad that the offense would look ok until it got into the redzone and couldn't score. You have to get to the redzone first which means sustained drives 1.3 points difference from last season which gets distorted playing catch up when your defense is giving up 32 points a game. One thing is relative to the other so the extra point is meaningless, but I'll give it to you though, you got me there Dan, Everyone wants to lay it all on the defense, I say the offense can't sustain drives which is compounding the problem.
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