Lv-Bills Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Right, and what I'm saying is that it's not just the stance. It's also the scheme that helps the edge rushers to get to the QB. We're not doing well in several areas on defense. We're not stopping the run and we're not getting to the QB either. And this limits our DB's ability to intercept the ball. When opposing QB's have an hour to throw the ball, someone eventually gets open. I digress... if we can use our interior big 3 (Edwards, Williams, Stroud) to occupy more than one lineman, and get our OLB's standing up on the outside, we have a better shot at getting to the QB. We don't always need 7 guys out in coverage when there are only 4 or 5 offensive players to cover. We're not mixing it up, and our blitz packages are "vanilla". LOL, yeah, so, in other words you are suggesting that maybe the Bills should try another type of 3/4 alignment that actually uses our personnel to our strengths? How dare you! And then show an example? You idiot. What WEO doesn't get is that we are 0-5. When you describe that the three lineman down would be Edwards, Williams, and Stroud, who actually are run stoppers, line up in the three interior down positions, seems about right to me. Those are the strengths of those three. Seems pretty reasonable. Then, stand up two ends. One being Maybin (who by the way, I think absolutely sucks)....but nonetheless, we are 0-5, my as well try it a little bit. Seems reasonable to me. And when he still sucks, cut him. But it does seem like that would be his only way to maybe be effective. At least try it. But to suggest it, illustrate it, and explain, it's well reasoned thought. I guess WEO thinks he's breaking news to us that Maybin sucks. My feeling is that while our whole team almost all sucks, why not give Maybin his last hurrah in this type of alignment. Makes sense to me.....what's the worst that could happen? We can't suck any worse than we do now.
dayman Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) Look at the second screen shot of the Steelers. Pass formation, and a definite speed rush. I took the screen shot from an actual video. IDK man...that's really not a 3-4 D at all...it's the mayhem D...yeah mayhem D is an option out of 3-4 personnel if you have the personnel but...it's a complete different thing that what we're doing there...the fact that the line has trouble telling who is coming and who is going helps more than the stance...I mean I'd love to see a confusing aggressive D like the Steelers but I'm not sold that we're really to blame for Maybin or that we're using him wrong. If can't even make an impact on special teams...something is up...assuming he's as fast and athletic as he is... sounds like he's a mental bust. A lazy spoiled player that doesn't want to work or get better. Edited October 13, 2010 by dayman
SoggyHog Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) What concerns me the most about the Maybin photo is not his stance. If you look at what happened, you can see it is not just Maybin. He was the first d-lineman off the snap and was in his second stride before the OT was out of his stance. (3-15-NE 20 (9:52) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 19-B.Tate to NE 34 for 14 yards (29-D.Florence). FUMBLES (29-D.Florence), RECOVERED by BUF-31-J.Byrd at NE 37. 31-J.Byrd to NE 37 for no gain (81-R.Moss). http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092603/2010/REG3/bills@patriots#tab:watch Watch Whitner. He is totally lost on the play. Florence cant cover a TE if his life depends on it. Maybin actually didn't look too bad on the play. I agree with the OP, fast but weak. Edited October 13, 2010 by SoggyHog
Thurman#1 Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Maybin is quick and athletic. He's not a big stout defensive end that can bull rush offensive tackles and get to the QB that way. He needs to be standing up on the edge out wide where he can speed rush and work in space. See examples below. Maybin in 4 point stance. Ends up hitting a wall when he runs into the offensive tackle. Gets pancaked... http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8589/maybinstance.jpg You actually get a slightly faster start from a four-point stance. That's why 40 yard dash runners use it. It doesn't slow you up. It makes it more obvious, though, that you're going forward rather than backward. I don't think stance is the problem. A lack of bulk, and a lack of such things as effectives swim moves and counter moves is a bigger factor in Maybin's ineffectiveness. He needs to get stronger. Well, I can show you what ends up happening when he lines up like that. Take a look at this shot. I circled Maybin getting buried (literally) by Matt Light because he tried to bull rush him. Also notice that ALL THREE of the other D-lineman (Ellis, Stroud, and Williams) are stacked on top of each other surrounded by Patriots O-lineman. That's not good. Something has to change with this scheme (it's not just the players). Take a look ---> http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1699/maybin2.jpg The Steelers scheme under Lebeau is a huge reason why the defense is so successful. I only use them as an example because they are the best in the business at the 3-4 scheme. Good stuff, but lining up in a four-point stance doesn't force you to bull rush. Bruce Smith used to line up in a four-point stance. Lots of guys who don't always bull rush do. And yeah, the Steelers are terrific, but it's not because of their posture before the snap. It's because they have terrific personnel, personnel who fit the scheme, and because they're unpredictable as heck, which is something the Bills will eventually be able to take advantage of after they can use the 3 - 4 regularly and get guys who can execute it (or develop some of the guys we have now so they can execute it).
Got_Wood Posted October 13, 2010 Author Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) And yeah, the Steelers are terrific, but it's not because of their posture before the snap. It's because they have terrific personnel, personnel who fit the scheme, and because they're unpredictable as heck, which is something the Bills will eventually be able to take advantage of after they can use the 3 - 4 regularly and get guys who can execute it (or develop some of the guys we have now so they can execute it). I think one of the greatest things about the Steelers and the Jets defense is the way they line up before the snap. They might have 7 guys on the line of scrimmage before the snap and only 4 of them rush the passer, but you NEVER know who those 4 guys will be. They might rush a corner back and slide a safety or linebacker over to cover their man. Standing up isn't what gets OLB's to the passer faster, it's the idea that you don't know what that guy is going to do when the ball is snapped. I think our personnel would look better if they were coached a little better. But you're right, the Steelers have very good players that fit their scheme. Edited October 13, 2010 by Got_Wood
ConradDobler Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Well, I can show you what ends up happening when he lines up like that. Take a look at this shot. I circled Maybin getting buried (literally) by Matt Light because he tried to bull rush him. Also notice that ALL THREE of the other D-lineman (Ellis, Stroud, and Williams) are stacked on top of each other surrounded by Patriots O-lineman. That's not good. Something has to change with this scheme (it's not just the players). Take a look ---> http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1699/maybin2.jpg The Steelers scheme under Lebeau is a huge reason why the defense is so successful. I only use them as an example because they are the best in the business at the 3-4 scheme. Lebeau was running a 4-3 under Greggo.
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 LOL, yeah, so, in other words you are suggesting that maybe the Bills should try another type of 3/4 alignment that actually uses our personnel to our strengths? How dare you! And then show an example? You idiot. What WEO doesn't get is that we are 0-5. When you describe that the three lineman down would be Edwards, Williams, and Stroud, who actually are run stoppers, line up in the three interior down positions, seems about right to me. Those are the strengths of those three. Seems pretty reasonable. Then, stand up two ends. One being Maybin (who by the way, I think absolutely sucks)....but nonetheless, we are 0-5, my as well try it a little bit. Seems reasonable to me. And when he still sucks, cut him. But it does seem like that would be his only way to maybe be effective. At least try it. But to suggest it, illustrate it, and explain, it's well reasoned thought. I guess WEO thinks he's breaking news to us that Maybin sucks. My feeling is that while our whole team almost all sucks, why not give Maybin his last hurrah in this type of alignment. Makes sense to me.....what's the worst that could happen? We can't suck any worse than we do now. Maybe the Bills should just admit the 3-4 won't work with the team they have (the rest of the world has already come to this conclusion). Our last DC did a much better job with the same talent. They could line Maybin up behind the QB---it won't make a difference. This defensive "scheme" is doomed.
Another Point of View Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 And why did we draft a player that is not Big and Physical boys and girls? Because we are stupid, that's why!!! Thanks , I feel better now!
DDD Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Sure, Maybin has been an utter failure because of his stance. It has nothing to do with the fact he sucks.
Another Point of View Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Sure, Maybin has been an utter failure because of his stance. It has nothing to do with the fact he sucks. I can't believe he is still on Buffalo's roster. The coaches must see something?
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 part of the issue id that Steelers have a DC who knows the 3 - 4 and knows how to utilize his players, we have an ex LB coach who no one had even on radar for DC position
marsadale Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 I think this is the visual of how we use Maybin all wrong, you were looking for.... All Wrong I understand the frustration regarding Maybin....but what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your post? This is the attitude that frustrates me about football fans and political pundits in general. Just a snarky non-productive stab at somebody or something, without anything productive or insightful to say. Do you have a time machine that we dont know about, that would enable us to go back and make him a 4th rounder?
Bufcomments Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Maybin is quick and athletic. He's not a big stout defensive end that can bull rush offensive tackles and get to the QB that way. He needs to be standing up on the edge out wide where he can speed rush and work in space. See examples below. Maybin in 4 point stance. Ends up hitting a wall when he runs into the offensive tackle. Gets pancaked... http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8589/maybinstance.jpg Example of Steelers OLB's in stand up 2 point stance... http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4089/steelersdefense2.jpg Different angle of defensive alignment and the pressure it brings with OLBs out in open space... http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/261/steelersdefense.jpg If we don't use our personnel the way they're supposed to be used, then we're wasting potential talent on the bench. Excellent post...i agree 100 percent. I would like to add since Kelsey cant cover my grandmother in house shoes in the flat why not use Kelsey at end and have Maybin line up outside of him on passing downs. If Maybin cant get to the passer at least one way to use his speed is to cover backs out of the backfield. There has to be someway to get him on the field. Otherwise get him out of here.
Clip Smith Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 I understand the frustration regarding Maybin....but what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your post? This is the attitude that frustrates me about football fans and political pundits in general. Just a snarky non-productive stab at somebody or something, without anything productive or insightful to say. Do you have a time machine that we dont know about, that would enable us to go back and make him a 4th rounder? You want productive? Cut him now, and let him spend what he has left of his $12 million on Miami Beach, living the good life. Just like all the posters who were "protecting" James Hardy and comparing him to Moulds.....the same set compares Maybin to Jason Taylor. Because something worked ONCE, does not mean it is now a law of nature. If Tom Modrak was a political pundit, he would probably predict that the next 20 US presidents will be black men, because it has happened once and was trendy at the time. And if I had a time machine, I would not waste it on someone like Maybin. I would use my powers for good....like transporting back to 2AM on Chippewa on a humid summer's night, and diving in front of a 110kg Canadian broad, before impact could be made between a gold plated fender and her volumous bottomside.
NaPolian8693 Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Look guys, getting down on all fours is what comes naturally to Maybin. He was born this way, it's not his fault.
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