BuffaloWings Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 This fact alone should be damning enough to fry Kiper. ESPN needs to fire him. The NFL obviously listens closely to Kiper judging from Clausen's freefall. Like someone said earlier, if the teams are listening to Kiper, they have their own problems. On the surface, Kiper only works for ESPN and tells the general public (i.e., fans) who should be the best player out there, etc. If Kiper does so much as breathe in an agent's direction, it should be scrutinized to the millionth degree.
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) This is a perspective if you think that the primary objective of most D-I players is to attend college vs getting a shot for the pros, and that's where your argument falls apart. The kid in the library is there because he wants the degree which he needs for his future job. Plus, that kid in the library probably gets paid for that work, or he can get another work-study job or even better - a real paid internship, while still on a full scholarship if he's a smart kid. But god forbid that star football players who are directly responsible for filling 100,000 seats at $50/pop religiously on Saturdays can't earn a dime. If the NFL or NBA had junior leagues like NHL or MLB, you wouldn't have as many kids going to college. Why do you think star b-ball players only play 1 or 2 yrs of NCAA ball? Would football players stay the minimum three years if the courts sided with Maurice Clarett? Hypocrisy, thy name is NCAA. The bottom line is that many of these kids would never get into college the way almost everybody else does--through aselective admissions process and with a tuition check from mom/dad or the bank. Contrary to the nonsense that Ramius is spewing, those who are academically inclined are free to pursue any degree program the school offers in order to survive after they don't make it to the NFL. Many top academic schools have strong football teams and guys getting degrees other than "communication", "sports management" or the like. The kid in the library is unlikey to be on full scholarship for academics because those are very rare at any school. The athlete on scholarship is being given an incredible opportunity to both a potential pro football career AND an education to fall back on. If he choses to not take advantage of the latter---F him. I agree the NCAA is a hypocritical organization. Edited October 14, 2010 by Mr. WEO
GG Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 The bottom line is that many of these kids would never get into college the way almost everybody else does--through aselective admissions process and with a tuition check from mom/dad or the bank. Contrary to the nonsense that Ramius is spewing, those who are academically inclined are free to pursue any degree program the school offers in order to survive after they don't make it to the NFL. Many top academic schools have strong football teams and guys getting degrees other than "communication", "sports management" or the like. The kid in the library is unlikey to be on full scholarship for academics because those are very rare at any school. The athlete on scholarship is being given an incredible opportunity to both a potential pro football career AND an education to fall back on. If he choses to not take advantage of the latter---F him. I agree the NCAA is a hypocratic organization. But there are no other options for the star football players other than to attend a top D-I program. And that's where most of the abuse is.
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 But there are no other options for the star football players other than to attend a top D-I program. And that's where most of the abuse is. No other options?? How about a div II program? Or III? How did the many NFL players who didn't go to Div I schools make it? On booster and agent money? How about studying hard like the kid without the scholarship who also works 20 hours a week for pin money or rent?
GG Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 No other options?? How about a div II program? Or III? How did the many NFL players who didn't go to Div I schools make it? On booster and agent money? How about studying hard like the kid without the scholarship who also works 20 hours a week for pin money or rent? Star football players do not have a choice of not attending college and turning pro. That's what I'm talking about. Go ahead and do an analysis of NFL players' collegiate programs and see how many are from D-II or lower and how many are from top echelon schools. You are putting forth a ridiculous argument - that star high school football players with a high probability of going pro should toil in a Div-III program because all they really want is a college education. Forget about the feeder system that's been in place for 100 years or that the NFL is getting a free ride from the NCAA, which is getting a free ride from the players. It's ludicrous to compare big time athletics to academic programs. The only reason it exists is because the feeder system is so far ingrained between the pro leagues & colleges, that there's too much money involved for anyone to change it. The best hope college players had was Maurice Clarett, and that was the end of that.
Fezmid Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Star football players do not have a choice of not attending college and turning pro. That's what I'm talking about. Go ahead and do an analysis of NFL players' collegiate programs and see how many are from D-II or lower and how many are from top echelon schools. You are putting forth a ridiculous argument - that star high school football players with a high probability of going pro should toil in a Div-III program because all they really want is a college education. Forget about the feeder system that's been in place for 100 years or that the NFL is getting a free ride from the NCAA, which is getting a free ride from the players. Do an analysis of how many D-I players get to play a single down in the NFL. It's a TINY percentage. Yes, I realize the kids have pie-in-the-sky hopes and expectations, but the reality is most of them are NOT going to play in the NFL. They'd be better off getting a good education at a D-II school (where they can also probably get a full ride) and making something of themselves there if in fact they can't get a proper degree from a D-I school. But the fact still remains that college football players CAN get a degree from a D-I school AND play football if they want. Yes, it might be more difficult. But like I said, I know two guys from the U of MN who were in my physics classes and in the computer labs quite a bit.
GG Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Do an analysis of how many D-I players get to play a single down in the NFL. It's a TINY percentage. Yes, I realize the kids have pie-in-the-sky hopes and expectations, but the reality is most of them are NOT going to play in the NFL. They'd be better off getting a good education at a D-II school (where they can also probably get a full ride) and making something of themselves there if in fact they can't get a proper degree from a D-I school. But the fact still remains that college football players CAN get a degree from a D-I school AND play football if they want. Yes, it might be more difficult. But like I said, I know two guys from the U of MN who were in my physics classes and in the computer labs quite a bit. But again, it comes down to choice. Reggie Bush had no choice but go to a big Div-I for th ebest shot at the NFL given his grades. Sorry to prick th eperfect world, but these kids are slotted early on in their lives towards a pro athletic career. That's how the feeder system works, and it's funded by big time money all up and down the line, yet we're supposed to turn a blind eye on it to protect the amateur athletes. If a good hockey player wants to get a shot at the pros, but also get a good education, he can go to college play and get a degree. He also can skip school and play juniors at a high level between 16 & 18, and earn a paycheck. Football players don't have that option, so they are fed through the collegiate system and everyone is appalled that they may also want to be compensated for their playing time. In this system: college wins, fans win, NFL wins, players lose.
boyst Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) Just wanted to say this is a great thread of conversation. Good job everybody? Thank you to SDS, too, for the forum to discuss this stuff! Edited October 14, 2010 by jboyst62
Ramius Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) But again, it comes down to choice. Reggie Bush had no choice but go to a big Div-I for th ebest shot at the NFL given his grades. Sorry to prick th eperfect world, but these kids are slotted early on in their lives towards a pro athletic career. That's how the feeder system works, and it's funded by big time money all up and down the line, yet we're supposed to turn a blind eye on it to protect the amateur athletes. If a good hockey player wants to get a shot at the pros, but also get a good education, he can go to college play and get a degree. He also can skip school and play juniors at a high level between 16 & 18, and earn a paycheck. Football players don't have that option, so they are fed through the collegiate system and everyone is appalled that they may also want to be compensated for their playing time. In this system: college wins, fans win, NFL wins, players lose. Good post. It also gets what i am trying to point out, is that since the NCAA is effectively a minor league system, these kids are just as busy as the average NFL player is. Its nto as if they attend class and then go to practice for an hour at the end of the day. Thus the educational "opportunities" that these "student" athletes is sub par. And due to the severe time constraints, players are prevented from pursuing a "real" major. Sure, they can take what they want, but if they can't spend the time studying and in class, their grades drop. And if the grades drop and they become ineligible, there gose their shot at the pros. Hence, 99.9% of big time collegiate athletes take bogus majors. The free education is the biggest scam the NCAA is running. Edited October 14, 2010 by Ramius
boyst Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Its nto as if they attend class and then go to practice for an hour at the end of the day. In 2000 when I was on the track team at UT practices were 4 hours in the offseason, M-F. On Saturdays runners would often get together to work out than hang out. Study groups were manditory, 2 hours a week. We would meet with selected prof assistants. By the time you changed, showered, etc, you had invested over 5 hours. 30 before to dress, stretch on your own, etc, and 30 after to shower and clean.
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