Red Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) I don't mean to presume, Red, but it sounds as though you're the one with the Losman preoccupation. I simply said that Losman's 2006 season was the best full season of QB play turned in by a Bills' QB since Bledsoe. I don't really see how that's a debatable point. If you want to debate the mertis of JP Losman, go for it, but don't question the facts. The fact is that during that one mediocre season from Losman (3,000 yards, 19 TDs, 14 INTs), Evans was a top 10 NFL WR. The kind that allow a player to catch 80 passes. If you think all 80 of them were bombs, streaks, go's, etc., then you are mistaken I'm afraid. Hit the link: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2006&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1 6 passes of over 40 yards; 15 of over 20. By my math, that means 67 receptions for under 20 yards...not exactly speaking to his being limited to go routes, etc. If you're point is that he traditionally doesn't catch a lot of passes over the middle, okay, I submit that it's true--to a smaller extent. That doesn't mean he's not a #1, it just means his skill set is better put to use in other pass routes. There are plenty of players like that: Chad Johnson, Miles Austin, Donald Driver; all of them are now or have been terrific, bona fide #1 WRs that weren't "over the middle" type of players. Um, which one of them is in the hall of fame again? Oh yeah, that #2 WR... Ok. Easy, action. Easy.... Alot of knuckleheads still fall asleep at night clutching their Losman jerseys, and I just wanted to be sure you were not one of them. Relax... o, you're basically stating that skill set determines where he is placed? That's my point, exactly. Traditionally speaking, the faster, streakier Wide Out goes on the outside and runs deep to stretch the field. The #1 does it all. Conceding that Evans rarely goes over the middle is proving my point. He does not do it all like a true #1. And before you get your panties in a bunch, remember that I think Evans is a very good WR. I'm not saying that he sucks. I'm just saying we would be much more successful if we had a true, #1 WR and could use Evans more according to his ability to stretch the field and use the sidelines. Ah, don't get too full of yourself hot shot, Reed was up for selection last year, and before we get all excited about the Hall of Fame one has to realize that is as much a popularity and political contest as it has to do with the merits of a player. Edited October 11, 2010 by Red
The Big Cat Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 The same band of idiots running the draft-day war room for this entire dismal decade, and people still think we should stockpile draft picks. Just because you give a blind guy more bullets to fire, doesn't mean he's a marksman.
Koufax Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 The Bills and the coaching staff have given up on this season long ago, theres no point in keeping anyone, they still haven't hit middle earth in their attempt to continue digging past rock bottom Hmmm...I agree about the giving up on 2010 at some level. Any 2011+ improvement is more important than any 2010 goal, so any place we can get better for 2011+ is fine with me. I am not sure that trading Lee will help us get better in 2011+. If we could get value sure, and I'm happy to give up 2010 Lee, but I really want 2011, 2012 Lee on our team especially as we get our new QB with the #1 pick So if value is there, it was nice to know you Lee. But anywhere a player on our roster has more 2011+ value as a Bill than the pick value we would get back that player needs to stay.
purple haze Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Yes the best thing a terrible team should do is trade the handful of good players you have and create yet even more needs. This team needs about 5 more front 7 players if they are committed to the 3-4. An OL or two, a franchise QB. So why not add yet another need that is a splendid idea. For those of you at the game like myself yesterday this teams offense is VERY serviceable and good enough to win games. Had we had this offense last year we could have won probably 9-10 games. You have to look at the big picture and not just view the move in a vacuum. Evans is a good player. In three years he will be 32 and they will be drafting his replacement around then. Actually, Easley might have already been that draft pick. The Bills are rebuilding, want to do it through the draft and need as many draft picks as they can get. Evans is an asset that can get them something. By the time they are ready to seriously compete Evans might not even be the best option at WR anyway. They need several LB's, a DE or two and Offensive linemen. All of those things trump having a good receiver on the roster who might or might not get a pass thrown his way.
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Ok. Easy, action. Easy.... Alot of knuckleheads still fall asleep at night clutching their Losman jerseys, and I just wanted to be sure you were not one of them. Relax... o, you're basically stating that skill set determines where he is placed? That's my point, exactly. Traditionally speaking, the faster, streakier Wide Out goes on the outside and runs deep to stretch the field. The #1 does it all. Conceding that Evans rarely goes over the middle is proving my point. He does not do it all like a true #1. And before you get your panties in a bunch, remember that I think Evans is a very good WR. I'm not saying that he sucks. I'm just saying we would be much more successful if we had a true, #1 WR and could use Evans more according to his ability to stretch the field and use the sidelines. Ah, don't get too full of yourself hot shot, Reed was up for selection last year, and before we get all excited about the Hall of Fame one has to realize that is as much a popularity and political contest as it has to do with the merits of a player. Believe me Red, I'm more than relaxed...like I said, I simply stated the facts regarding the best season of QB play the team has had in the last 6 years. Frankly, it doesn't matter what I (or anyone else) think of JP Losman, that doesn't change a thing regarding Evans' production. I'm still a bit confused as to why you feel you need to make sure of anything before responding to a stat line, but I digress... If we're going to delve into the definition of a #1 receiver, then we might as well call it what it is: the #1 receiver is the guy on the team that should get the most targets; so Evans is the #1 whether you like him or not. If we're going to discuss the skill set of a "true #1", are you then going to argue that guys like Austin, Ochocinco, Driver (in their primes) weren't "true #1" WRs? They didn't run patterns over the middle...let's face it Red, it comes down to productivity, not style. Is Wes Welker a #1? He NEVER catches a deep ball...but that's not what defines a #1; it's productivity, not style. As I said, my "panties" are not in a bunch, I simply believe in fact over opinion when it comes to these discussions. The FACT remains that when given mediocre QB play (i.e. Losman in 2006), the guy was 6th in the NFL in receiving yards...that's a #1 WR in my book. Lastly, just because I pointed out a flaw in your argument doesn't mean I'm full of myself. James Lofton held the NFL's all-time career receiving yardage record for a time before Jerry Rice broke it...to call him a #2 WR is ludicrous; your folly, not mine. Edited October 11, 2010 by thebandit27
Throwback Bills Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) I really don't understand the trade Evans talk? It's not position of depth, so way trade Evans for a 2, 3 or 4 and have to use that draft pick on a WR? Maybe if you get several (at least two), then maybe? Right now we have top five pick in draft, with additional 4th and maybe sixth. the fourth will be 15th to mid 20's my guess of that round (111th to 130th). Edited October 11, 2010 by Throwback Bills
C l u t c H 385 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 If I could get STL number 1 pick in 2011 I might consider it however I have no confidence that we know what the heck we are doing on draft day Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!.............Ha.
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Evans for St. Louis #2 this year and #1 next year... I dont even think our whole team is worth that, let alone Lee Evans! Man, if the Bills trade Evans then Buffalo is an expansion franchise. No...they are a rebuilding team, and by the time this is done, a 30-something year old Evans will be worthless...as he pretty much is now! Look at the high turnover of quality players in Denver since McDaniels took over. Cutler, Marshall, Scheftler... Only difference is...we do not have a single player anywhere close to the talent of those 3. LMAO...I love how you say he can help Bradfords development and yet we are about to be grooming our own young QB in either Brohm or a rookie and yet you want to ship him out as if he won't help their development...priceless "Grooming our own young QB"??? BROHM OR BROWN??? What is there to groom? Brown was not good enough for ANYONE'S practice squad, let alone the Buffalo Bills' practice squad. I mean, how bad do you have to be to make the Bills' PS? And IF Brian Brohm had the least bit of potential, he would have already been playing. Evans is easily replaceable...Johnson even has better stats!
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 It would not surprise me if the Bills traded Lee to the Pats. That would surprise me.
The Jokeman Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) I'd not really sure why the Rams would start trading the future for the present, given the fact that they're really in year one of a rebuilding plan. Actually they're in year 2, year 1 was last year when they draft OT Jason Smith. While's struggled with penalties he's been pretty good at avoiding sacks as he's allowed just 2.0 in 13 NFL games or 10 NFL starts. In comparison Demetrius Bell has given up 6.0 sacks in 13 NFL games/starts. While I'll commend Bell for doing better this year I still has reservations as him being a great starter. In terms of trading Lee Evans, count me among those that be all for it as was calling us to draft Dez Bryant who has put up similar to numbers to Lee this but also has a punt return for a TD. Edited October 11, 2010 by The Jokeman
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I really don't understand the trade Evans talk? It's not position of depth, so way trade Evans for a 2, 3 or 4 and have to use that draft pick on a WR? Maybe if you get several (at least two), then maybe? Right now we have top five pick in draft, with additional 4th and maybe sixth. the fourth will be 15th to mid 20's my guess of that round (111th to 130th). Lee is the depth. Last year he was the second most productive WR, this year he is the third most productive WR so far.
truth on hold Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Evans isnt getting traded to St Louis ... this is silly. Rams had no designs on going to the Super Bowl this year so they're not desperate to get a player like the Vikes. Rams still have expectations for relatively high picks which they wont want to part with. "Evans to Rams" talk is really just a waste of time.
Conch Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 If I could get STL number 1 pick in 2011 I might consider it however I have no confidence that we know what the heck we are doing on draft day You are not going to get a #1 for a guy that in five games has caught one ball when it mattered and dropped plenty when it did. If he were catching 8 to 10 per game and producing at a high level, maybe you could get a second round pick from a contender in need. But he is producing like an 4th round rookie on a team with three veteran wideouts ahead of him. The real problem is that he has been consistently playing like a rookie for the third year in a row. Get a 4th or 5th round for this slug and be happy. He is nowhere near a #1 WR. Show me a single stat since 2008 that says otherwise.
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Cue the "Lee Evans is not a true #1" talk..... Hahahahaha shat ap.
mrags Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Except for the one year in which Evans' had half-way decent QB play (Losman in 2006--by far the best full season of QB play since Bledsoe in 2002)...not sure if you remember, but does 80 catches, 1,300 yards and 8 TDs sound like #2WR numbers to you? In all fairness, Evans has only put up numbers lime that only once in his career and to be honest, 8 tds is far from great or even good. Go look where he ranked in recieving tds that season, I'm willing to bet it was somewhere in the 20s or possibly 30s. The point is this, Evans is making 9+mil a year (a contract that ranks him as a top 5 wr) and is not even a top 20-30wr in the league. If you play fantasy football you probably noticed Evans wasn't drafted or most likely taken very late in your draft. If he was taken before the 8th round then I wish I was in your league.
bigc14120 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't see where he has proven himself a #1 receiver. He's an awesome #2. But if all he runs is "go" routes and slants, that's not a #1 receiver; that's a #2. Owens, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Johnson in Houston...those are true #1 receivers. Guys that run every pattern, catch everything thrown to them, and can change a game with their ability. We have not had a true #1 since Moulds left. Please note the four touchdowns that Steve Johnson has.....Steve is a #2 receiver who is getting some results because....Lee Evans is a good enough #1 to demand the principle attention from the defense. QED (means demonstrated without errors)
loserlovers Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 The Bills and the coaching staff have given up on this season long ago, theres no point in keeping anyone, they still haven't hit middle earth in their attempt to continue digging past rock bottom um why??? cuz they ditched a useless qb who should never have been a starter period/??? Or is it that they traded a RB who always ran toward contact?,slowley at that
Alphadawg7 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) Until we can pass protect what good is Lee Evans at 9 million, or any QB regardless of who it is, you guys that think teams can succeed with poor D and O-lines and expect the skilled players to make up for it are as stupid as Russ Brandon when it comes to managing a football team. LMAO...you dont even know Lee evans salary for 2010 which is $7 Million, not $9 million yet you want us all to listen to your great GM advice... Secondly, our payroll is very low and lets consider the facts... 1. He isnt preventing any young guys development 2. His salary isnt preventing the team from signing anyone 3. His salary isnt messing up our cap space 4. He isnt a distraction 5. He isnt asking for a trade 6. We are already grossly thin at WR 7. We are about to have a young QB in either Brohm or a rookie we draft under center and he needs someone to throw to... 8. How long have we been trying to find a compliment to him? Lets see, his whole career...so clearly its not so easy to just go out and find a talented WR for whatever young QB we bring in. 9. This team has a lot of holes...yet you want to create more, one of the most difficult to fill and a position that typically takes a couple years to develop someone at just because you dont like our front lines? 10. He is worth more to this team than any 4th round draft pick we would get in return. So, please oh please oh wise one...give me ONE, just ONE reason we should dump the only legitimate starting WR on this team who is still relatively young other than your hilarious rant that its pointless to have talented skill position players if you dont have good lines... "Grooming our own young QB"??? BROHM OR BROWN??? What is there to groom? Brown was not good enough for ANYONE'S practice squad, let alone the Buffalo Bills' practice squad. I mean, how bad do you have to be to make the Bills' PS? And IF Brian Brohm had the least bit of potential, he would have already been playing. Evans is easily replaceable...Johnson even has better stats! If you read what I wrote I said either Brohm or a rookie we draft...either way, it will be a young inexperienced QB...Brown wasnt even a consideration... Edited October 11, 2010 by Alphadawg7
loserlovers Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 You are not going to get a #1 for a guy that in five games has caught one ball when it mattered and dropped plenty when it did. If he were catching 8 to 10 per game and producing at a high level, maybe you could get a second round pick from a contender in need. But he is producing like an 4th round rookie on a team with three veteran wideouts ahead of him. The real problem is that he has been consistently playing like a rookie for the third year in a row. Get a 4th or 5th round for this slug and be happy. He is nowhere near a #1 WR. Show me a single stat since 2008 that says otherwise. Lee dropped important balls in exactly one game in his career, he has made game winning plays several times, I would say close to 15+ games where his td's were the difference. You people who say he drops balls are showing you have no clue/memory.(chose 1) Also if you keep blaming the line for bad qb play, why isnt the line responsible for bad WR play and limited stats, since Lee has incredibly good hands how do you blame him for production? he catches everything thrown his way. Besides the jets game this year i challenge anyone to find a game he had multiple drops in. I also would wager he is top 10 every year in drops(lack of ) for starting WR's with more than 40 catches per season. Ill paypal anyone who can prove otherwise
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Just because you give a blind guy more bullets to fire, doesn't mean he's a marksman. No, but it gives us a few more chances at blind luck. Like, you know, when Ralph promoted Polian.
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