Alphadawg7 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Skilled players are useless until the lines are fixed, what part of that don't you understand. Hahahaha, this might be the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board...seriously So let me get this straight...your solution is to purge the team of talent at all skill positions until we have better lines? That could only make sense to you...classic
Red Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Cue the "Lee Evans is not a true #1" talk..... I don't see where he has proven himself a #1 receiver. He's an awesome #2. But if all he runs is "go" routes and slants, that's not a #1 receiver; that's a #2. Owens, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Johnson in Houston...those are true #1 receivers. Guys that run every pattern, catch everything thrown to them, and can change a game with their ability. We have not had a true #1 since Moulds left.
mike oxhurtz Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't see where he has proven himself a #1 receiver. He's an awesome #2. But if all he runs is "go" routes and slants, that's not a #1 receiver; that's a #2. Owens, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Johnson in Houston...those are true #1 receivers. Guys that run every pattern, catch everything thrown to them, and can change a game with their ability. We have not had a true #1 since Moulds left. I agree 100%
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Skilled players are useless until the lines are fixed, what part of that don't you understand. I'll field this one for you... How about the part where this isn't even remotely true, with regard to this team or any other. Did you watch this team yesterday? Did you see an offense that was plagued by repeated pressure on the passer? Did you see an offense who's running game was stifled by the opposition's physical play? If you did, then you were watching a much different version of the game than I was. The offense stopped being successful when the team stopped running the ball. Fred Jackson averaged almost 6 yards per carry yesterday. Fitz was an 67% passer and had a YPA of 7.3 with 3 TDs. Lee Evans had a long TD (on which the pass protection was perfect, by the way). This stuff isn't rocket science, those are examples of skill guys producing...what part of yesterday tells you that the line held this team back? With all due respect, dog, what the hell are you even talking about? You want to point fingers? How about pointing them at a defense that allowed Jacksonville to score on 8 of 9 second half drives? How about a defense that failed to force a single punt all day? How about a scheme that has guys overpursuing all game long? How about a coaching staff that ran the ball 6 times in the 2nd half, leading to a massive tilt in 2nd half time of possession? You continue to target the wrong area of the team with your blame...this one goes on the defense. The whole defense. The line gets no pressure, the LBs miss tackles all game long, the DBs don't cover...has anyone seen Jairus Byrd or Donte Whitner get within 10 yards of an opposing WR or TE BEFORE they catch the ball? Me neither... Sorry if that sounds harsh, but like I said, your criticism is mis-directed.
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't see where he has proven himself a #1 receiver. He's an awesome #2. But if all he runs is "go" routes and slants, that's not a #1 receiver; that's a #2. Owens, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Johnson in Houston...those are true #1 receivers. Guys that run every pattern, catch everything thrown to them, and can change a game with their ability. We have not had a true #1 since Moulds left. Except for the one year in which Evans' had half-way decent QB play (Losman in 2006--by far the best full season of QB play since Bledsoe in 2002)...not sure if you remember, but does 80 catches, 1,300 yards and 8 TDs sound like #2WR numbers to you?
HailMary Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 LMAO...I love how you say he can help Bradfords development and yet we are about to be grooming our own young QB in either Brohm or a rookie and yet you want to ship him out as if he won't help their development...priceless By the time we're even close to competitive, Evans will be retired...
NaPolian8693 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Lee Evans thing has been done a million times, he is a bottom of the barrel number one or a pretty good number two.
mike oxhurtz Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Except for the one year in which Evans' had half-way decent QB play (Losman in 2006--by far the best full season of QB play since Bledsoe in 2002)...not sure if you remember, but does 80 catches, 1,300 yards and 8 TDs sound like #2WR numbers to you? http://www.nfl.com/players/peerlessprice/profile?id=PRI272527 Peerless Price 2002 stats as the #2 WR on the Bills: 94 receptions, 1252 yards and 9 TD's Peerless Price's 2003-2004 stats as the #1 WR on the Falcons: 64 receptions, 838 yards and 3 TD's 45 receptions, 575 yards and 3 TD's Just because a WR has 80 catches and 1300 yards one season, doesn't mean that automatically makes him a #1 WR for the rest of his career.
Red Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Except for the one year in which Evans' had half-way decent QB play (Losman in 2006--by far the best full season of QB play since Bledsoe in 2002)...not sure if you remember, but does 80 catches, 1,300 yards and 8 TDs sound like #2WR numbers to you? First off, I'm not sure if you are somehow trying to justify Losman or not (who was another example of the inept front office and scouting by trading/ using 2 1st round picks w/in 3 years on the QB position- Bledsoe and Losman). Regardless, that's 1 season. And what kind of passes was Evans running? He was getting hit by Losman on long passes. Streaks, go's, etc. That's his pattern. That's what he excels at. Look at the Super Bowl Cowboys. Michael Irvin was the bread-and-butter, catch everything WR (and push off of DB's), but Alvin Harper was the #2, "go" pattern WR. Traditionally speaking, the #1 receiver does it all. The #2 is the long distance guy. Stretches the field. You might remember Reed and Lofton? Reed caught every pass pattern known to man, and Lofton was the sideline/ long distance guy. Reed was a true #1 receiver, and Lofton a true #2. Or perhaps Moulds and Price might jog your memory? Moulds caught everything; over the middle, deep, short, etc, and Price caught those long balls. All I am saying is that I don't hate Evans. I think he's a great player. But great as a true #2 receiver. When was the last time we saw Evans go over the middle into LB land? Evans, since his career began, has remained on the outside. A true #1 receiver does it all.
Van_phelaN1 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 It would not surprise me if the Bills traded Lee to the Pats. Nothing will ever surprise me again with this team, even if they traded Evans for an egg salad sandwich. Still, I doubt it is in the plans to trade him away.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Hahahaha, this might be the stupidest thing I have ever read on this board...seriously So let me get this straight...your solution is to purge the team of talent at all skill positions until we have better lines? That could only make sense to you...classic Until we can pass protect what good is Lee Evans at 9 million, or any QB regardless of who it is, you guys that think teams can succeed with poor D and O-lines and expect the skilled players to make up for it are as stupid as Russ Brandon when it comes to managing a football team.
JPS Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't see where he has proven himself a #1 receiver. He's an awesome #2. But if all he runs is "go" routes and slants, that's not a #1 receiver; that's a #2. Owens, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Johnson in Houston...those are true #1 receivers. Guys that run every pattern, catch everything thrown to them, and can change a game with their ability. We have not had a true #1 since Moulds left. It's a BS conversation that has been done every Tuesday, I believe, and I'm not getting drawn into it. Thanks for coming through for me though.
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 http://www.nfl.com/players/peerlessprice/profile?id=PRI272527 Peerless Price 2002 stats as the #2 WR on the Bills: 94 receptions, 1252 yards and 9 TD's Peerless Price's 2003-2004 stats as the #1 WR on the Falcons: 64 receptions, 838 yards and 3 TD's 45 receptions, 575 yards and 3 TD's Just because a WR has 80 catches and 1300 yards one season, doesn't mean that automatically makes him a #1 WR for the rest of his career. It's one thing to put up #s like Price's in 2002 when you have a QB that throws for 4,300 yards and a pro bowl WR playing on the opposite side. When you put up the #s that Evans put up in 2006 with JP Losman at QB and playing without any other discernable threat in the passing game (unless you count Josh Reed), I'd call that #1 WR production.
Gabe Northern Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 If teams aren't scared by his contract, makes sense to move him for the right offer. With Clayton out, this may help Bradford in his development. Allen Wilson said that the Bills can't deal Evans because no one is willing to pay him $9 M per year. Just screws up the locker room when guy comes in from anther club and gets paid more than anyone esle.
bisonbrigade Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Man, if the Bills trade Evans then Buffalo is an expansion franchise. To late, they already are. Maybe they can join the CFL, aleast teams run less in that league.
thebandit27 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) First off, I'm not sure if you are somehow trying to justify Losman or not (who was another example of the inept front office and scouting by trading/ using 2 1st round picks w/in 3 years on the QB position- Bledsoe and Losman). I don't mean to presume, Red, but it sounds as though you're the one with the Losman preoccupation. I simply said that Losman's 2006 season was the best full season of QB play turned in by a Bills' QB since Bledsoe. I don't really see how that's a debatable point. If you want to debate the mertis of JP Losman, go for it, but don't question the facts. The fact is that during that one mediocre season from Losman (3,000 yards, 19 TDs, 14 INTs), Evans was a top 10 NFL WR. Regardless, that's 1 season. And what kind of passes was Evans running? The kind that allow a player to catch 80 passes. If you think all 80 of them were bombs, streaks, go's, etc., then you are mistaken I'm afraid. Hit the link: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2006&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1 6 passes of over 40 yards; 15 of over 20. By my math, that means 67 receptions for under 20 yards...not exactly speaking to his being limited to go routes, etc. If you're point is that he traditionally doesn't catch a lot of passes over the middle, okay, I submit that it's true--to a smaller extent. That doesn't mean he's not a #1, it just means his skill set is better put to use in other pass routes. There are plenty of players like that: Chad Johnson, Miles Austin, Donald Driver; all of them are now or have been terrific, bona fide #1 WRs that weren't "over the middle" type of players. You might remember Reed and Lofton? Reed caught every pass pattern known to man, and Lofton was the sideline/ long distance guy. Reed was a true #1 receiver, and Lofton a true #2. Um, which one of them is in the hall of fame again? Oh yeah, that #2 WR... Edited October 11, 2010 by thebandit27
Magox Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 http://www.nfl.com/players/peerlessprice/profile?id=PRI272527 Peerless Price 2002 stats as the #2 WR on the Bills: 94 receptions, 1252 yards and 9 TD's Peerless Price's 2003-2004 stats as the #1 WR on the Falcons: 64 receptions, 838 yards and 3 TD's 45 receptions, 575 yards and 3 TD's Just because a WR has 80 catches and 1300 yards one season, doesn't mean that automatically makes him a #1 WR for the rest of his career. Good comparison, I have always contended that Lee Evans is an average at best #1 WR and a top tier #2. As far as I am concerned, he isn't a precise route runner and nearly doesn't get as many touches as he should for $9 Million a year. I would rather allow Steve Johnson, Easley and David Nelson have a shot at becoming our future WR's meanwhile use that $9 Million on filling other needs such as on a LB or OT and receive a decent draft pick. Let's face it, we are terrible and we need to start all over. However, I'm still pissed that we extended Kelsay's contract. That DOES piss me off.
Bob in STL Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 If teams aren't scared by his contract, makes sense to move him for the right offer. With Clayton out, this may help Bradford in his development. It will help Bradford and hurt our chances of developing a QB. Trading Evans will leave another massive hole. Knowing our FO we will trade Lee for a 3rd rounder and then spend a #1 drafting his replacement. (See Henry, McGahee, Lynch and Spiller).
TheChimp Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Skilled players are useless until the lines are fixed This exact statement should be spraypainted on every wall at OBD.
Recommended Posts