The Hank Bullough era returns to Buffalo

[Thurman#1]

Check your facts, then come back and try again. If you're over 40 and a fan since 1970, you should already know the answers to a couple of your own questions:

 

1) What did RW do with Lou Saban?

 

Nothing. Lou quit on RW twice - in 1965 and again in 1976. (Lou quit on a lot of different organizations, some before even lasting a full season - which is why, even though I think he's deserving, to this day Saban is not on the Bills ' Wall of Fame ' despite the 2 AFL championships.)

 

2) What did he do with Chuck Knox?

 

Again, nothing. Knox left when his contract expired (after a 4-5 season) to run the Seahawks, who were offering a bundle of $$$$. New opportunity, bigger challenge, more money. It happens in every profession.

 

3) He got lucky finding Bill Polian, and he fired him during the superbowl years. Who fires a GM that builds a superbowl team while they are still winning? I'll tell you who..Ralph Wilson.

 

As Johnny Carson might have said, 'Wrong again, bison-breath!' Bill Polian was promoted up thru the ranks - just like Buddy Nix - and got fired only because he publicly humiliated RW's late daughter, calling her one of the most vile names you can use to refer to a woman (think 'c-word'). Polian's temper and foul mouth were legendary - as Marv Levy has stated more than once - and still Wilson recanted after Polian's outrageous outburst and allowed him to finish out the season so that his son would not have to transfer out of high school (St. Francis) in his senior year.

 

4) Looking at the Ralph Wilson record since 1970, i can only guess that he got very lucky in 1964 and 1965. But if you want to credit Mr Wilson with those teams, then be my guest..as long as you give him credit for the mediocrity we now have. Lets all hug and give each other high fives for that great championship team of 36 years ago. Give me a break!!

 

Um, it was 46 years ago. Ralph must have gotten very lucky in 1963 - the Bills 3rd season of existence - too, since they took the AFL East and went to the playoffs. He got pretty lucky in 1966 as well, when the Bills finished 9-4-1, went to the playoffs for the 4th consecutive season, and missed playing in the first Superbowl ever against Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers by one game.

 

He got lucky again in the mid '70s, early 80's, and thru the 'dynasty era' that really began with the 1988 season and lasted thru 1993. So hey, I guess the Bills had pretty decent times in 4 of their 5 decades of existence. Don't give Ralph any credit for that, though.

 

You want to blame him for the current (or previous) temporary mediocrity? Fine, I'm sure he accepts the blame. Just be sure you also throw an occasional bone to the guy who brought 2 AFL championships, 4 AFC championships, 10 division titles, and 17 playoff appearances to the football fans of Buffalo.

 

 

 

Nice post. You're dead right. If you want to blame him for the bad times, you have to then credit him for the good ones also.

[thewildrabbit]

#1 It's not the same group. Quite a few differences, the primary one being that our best player, Schobel, retired, leaving us without a pass rush.

 

#2 Under Jauron and Fewell, they were playing in a scheme for which they had been selected because they had the size and physical talents to handle their position in that scheme. Now, they're playing in a scheme for which they're NOT the right size and mostly DON'T have the correct physical talents to succeed at their new positions. Kelsay, for instance, was correctly sized and had the talent to be a decent run-stopping DE in a 4 -3 scheme, and could even get a few sacks when the other teams were double-teaming Schobel on the other side. Now he's supposed to be covering recievers. And you actually wonder why he's playing worse for Edwards than for Jauron or Fewell?

 

#3 In a 4 - 3, they were playing positions they had manned for years, most of them. They were instinctive, because they knew their responsibilities and had the experience. Now, they're playing positions they hadn't played before OTAs this year. Which means they have to think rather than just reacting.

 

#4 The Tampa Two works best with smaller quicker players. The 3 - 4 works best with huge strong guys in the front seven. How surprising is it that those small guys aren't doing well in the scheme made for huge guys?

 

This isn't Chinese algebra.

 

They're playing worse because they don't fit the defense. And the Bills knew that would happen, tried to minimize it, and did the best they could but this was in the cards from the moment they committed to the 3 - 4. The Bills don't mind sucking this year ... we're rebuilding, and our goal is to be one of the best teams in football in 2012 or 2013 regardless of whether that hurts us this year.

If you are completely dismissing the coaching...well then get a grip on reality, as they mostly used a 4-3 in the last game and it didn't make much difference against the run. The team has been making the transition to a 3-4 but have still used the 4-3 at various times. I can recall a year without Schobel in 2008, and yea, there was no viable pass rush just like this year, but the defense was no where near this bad. Exactly how difficult is it for the DC to call a cover 2 -cover 3 and Tampa 2 defense during a game...which is exactly what they ran in the past 4 years. The team has always been lousy at stopping the run because that is the main flaw of the Tampa 2.... just not this lousy!

 

It is the coaching, its always the coaching

Edited October 15, 2010 by Harvey lives

[ConradDobler]

Polian was not promoted to GM after Bledsoe's heart attack. He acted in the role of GM along with Norm Pollom until Bledsoe's health allowed him to return. He was promoted to GM after Bledsoe was fired at the conclusion of the '85 season. One of the things that sealed the deal for Bledsoe was the god awful trade for Vince Feragamo.

 

2) What did he do with Chuck Knox?

 

Again, nothing. Knox left when his contract expired (after a 4-5 season) to run the Seahawks, who were offering a bundle of $$$$. New opportunity, bigger challenge, more money. It happens in every profession

 

Nice posts, I agree 100%. Good to see a new poster with a factual view of the past instead of the Ralph is CHEAP! mindset.

Edited October 15, 2010 by ConradDobler

[thewildrabbit]

Wilson did actually offer Knox an extension, but it was either not enough, or Knox was already tired of Wilson's BS and couldn't wait to get out of town. Plus I think part of it was, he thought the team he had here had reached it's pinnacle wasn't going to get any better.

 

Wilson fired John Butler when he wouldn't sign an offer before the season had even ended, his statement was "If I can't hire you, I'll fire you"" I would think it would have taken more money then RW was willing to pay to keep Butler (and AJ Smith) in Buffalo. Plus I think Butler was tired of dealing with Jeff Littman as was Polian. Why in the hell would anyone with as much football acumen and smarts as Butler and Polian want to stay and deal with Ralph Wilson ( a notoriously cantankerous and cheap owner ) and his staff of clowns. I'm pretty certain now that Chuck Knox ended his time in Buffalo for mostly the same reasons Polian and Butler left only with Idiot GM Stew Barber thrown into the equation.

 

I'm also pretty certain that Butler-Polian-Knox never looked back with any remorse about leaving the Buffalo Bills as all three ended up with more money and less crap to deal with. Knox took yet another team to the playoffs basically by himself, Polian took the Colts to a super bowl and won it, Butler (RIP) along with AJ Smith have built a new powerhouse in San Diego.

 

Ralph Wilson is his own worst enemy, in regards to building and maintaining a winning organization

Edited October 15, 2010 by Harvey lives

[....lybob]

Winning percentage of .473 coming into the season ranked 23rd, it's not the worst but nothing to get too proud about either.

[first_and_ten]

Is that all you can come up with - throwing my own quips back at me? So besides being an incessant whiner and total idiot, I guess you're also devoid of any original thought? What's your next witty comeback gonna be - "Oh yeah?" or "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

Let's see, you can't add/subtract, can't type, and can't seem to get it through your seemingly empty skull that if you want to blame Ralph Wilson for the Bills' periods of mediocrity - even total, all-out 'suckitude' - that's just fine with me; just make sure you also credit him for the good times. Be consistent in your assignation of credit as well as blame. That's all I ask.

 

Moron.

You call me a whiner, lol. Youe whole post is a seminar on how to whine. You whine about my post like a three year old who is past his bedtime. Grow up dude. When an adult has to lower himself to name calling like you do, it only reflects on that person. Look in the mirror. You're quips are stupid. Using your own quip against you was designed to show that. You fell right into that one. You really are very immature, and not very smart. I don't need to adjust my opinions because they hurt your lil feelings dude. How old are you? .........cue the insults from the "senator"...lol

 

Oh, and one more thing...apparently you don't read, either...

 

The Bills havent had a franchise quarterback since Hall of Famer Jim Kelly retired following the 1996 season. Since then, nine players have started at least eight games, with Drew Bledsoe holding the job for the longest tenure, from 2002-04. Buffalo has already shuffled quarterbacks this year, with Ryan Fitzpatrick(notes) taking over the starting job in Week 3, and Trent Edwards(notes) being released a week later.

 

Wilson spoke as the Bills enter their bye week, and a day after he watched his team blow a 10-point first-half lead in a 36-26 loss to Jacksonville. Buffalo is off to an 0-5 start for the fifth time in franchise history, and first since 1985. Buffalo has allowed 30 points in four straight games for the first time in team history. Its a stretch during which the Bills have been outscored 146-77. And the teams already in jeopardy of missing the playoffs for an 11th straight year.

 

Wilson took full responsibility for the teams decade-long woes, a stretch in which theyve only had one winning season (a 9-7 finish in 2004) since 2000. The Bills are on their sixth coach (including Perry Fewell, who finished last season on an interim basis), and fifth general manager over that stretch.

 

The blame falls on me because I made those selections, Wilson said. And I dont want to blame somebody else. I take the blame.

 

And Wilson is well aware of how fans have begun to criticize him for the teams troubles.

 

Oh yeah, he said. I know that, and I dont blame them.

 

 

(I don't have to speak for him - that's from the VERY widely circulated AP writer John Warwow's interview with the man himself - link)

 

 

Do you have any idea at all what an annoying, incessant little whiner you are?

Another demonstration on how to whine while calling someone else a whiner...hahahahaha.you must have missed med pass

 

Nice posts, I agree 100%. Good to see a new poster with a factual view of the past instead of the Ralph is CHEAP! mindset.

 

yes he left when his contract expired..but to just make that statement doesn't get into the reason he wouldn't come back...and "RW is cheap" is a mindset that has been created because of his actions, for the better part of his ownership. It's a mindset that many people view, and not just here in Buffalo. They are not all crazy.

 

Wilson fired John Butler when he wouldn't sign an offer before the season had even ended, his statement was "If I can't hire you, I'll fire you"" I would think it would have taken more money then RW was willing to pay to keep Butler (and AJ Smith) in Buffalo. Plus I think Butler was tired of dealing with Jeff Littman as was Polian. Why in the hell would anyone with as much football acumen and smarts as Butler and Polian want to stay and deal with Ralph Wilson ( a notoriously cantankerous and cheap owner ) and his staff of clowns. I'm pretty certain now that Chuck Knox ended his time in Buffalo for mostly the same reasons Polian and Butler left only with Idiot GM Stew Barber thrown into the equation.

 

I'm also pretty certain that Butler-Polian-Knox never looked back with any remorse about leaving the Buffalo Bills as all three ended up with more money and less crap to deal with. Knox took yet another team to the playoffs basically by himself, Polian took the Colts to a super bowl and won it, Butler (RIP) along with AJ Smith have built a new powerhouse in San Diego.

 

Ralph Wilson is his own worst enemy, in regards to building and maintaining a winning organization

 

good post

Edited October 16, 2010 by first_and_ten

[GRHater69]

You want to really get depressed and talk about history repeating itself? After the Bears trounced the Bills in the final preseason game of '85, Wilson in an interview said "We have to be patient". Thankfully he didn't use the word "pain" as well, or I would have thought someone was paraphrasing John Warwow's interview from earlier this week. This constant cycle of the team bottoming out has repeated itself far to often since the late 60s and it's very frustrating to watch, especially since I've been following them since '72. There is no good reason to keep running competent football managers and coaches out of here every 5-6 years, letting the whole thing fall apart only to start over again.

[Sisyphean Bills]

You want to really get depressed and talk about history repeating itself? After the Bears trounced the Bills in the final preseason game of '85, Wilson in an interview said "We have to be patient". Thankfully he didn't use the word "pain" as well, or I would have thought someone was paraphrasing John Warwow's interview from earlier this week. This constant cycle of the team bottoming out has repeated itself far to often since the late 60s and it's very frustrating to watch, especially since I've been following them since '72. There is no good reason to keep running competent football managers and coaches out of here every 5-6 years, letting the whole thing fall apart only to start over again.

What about the incompetent ones?

[GRHater69]

What about the incompetent ones?

 

 

Sadly they seem to get the same lifespan

[BillsVet]

The constant remains that strong willed and talented football people are eventually shown the door or leave of their own volition. Saban, Knox, Polian, Butler. Those four men are responsible for the vast majority of this team's success. All wanted out or were fired. Question unasked thus far is why? Why would anyone leave after building a successful team? In the case of Saban, he was well-traveled, but the others weren't and probably preferred remaining.

 

Now, the team is left to interview in-house candidates for GM and hire HC's that wouldn't otherwise be in the NFL. And it's not because the weather is bad from November through March.

Edited October 16, 2010 by BillsVet

[It's in My Blood]

 

You want to blame him for the current (or previous) temporary mediocrity? Fine, I'm sure he accepts the blame. Just be sure you also throw an occasional bone to the guy who brought 2 AFL championships, 4 AFC championships, 10 division titles, and 17 playoff appearances to the football fans of Buffalo.

 

Unfortunately , the NFL is a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" business. 11 years without a postseason berth is inexcusable , period.

[Slack_in_MA]

Check your facts, then come back and try again. If you're over 40 and a fan since 1970, you should already know the answers to a couple of your own questions:

 

1) What did RW do with Lou Saban?

 

Nothing. Lou quit on RW twice - in 1965 and again in 1976. (Lou quit on a lot of different organizations, some before even lasting a full season - which is why, even though I think he's deserving, to this day Saban is not on the Bills ' Wall of Fame ' despite the 2 AFL championships.)

 

2) What did he do with Chuck Knox?

 

Again, nothing. Knox left when his contract expired (after a 4-5 season) to run the Seahawks, who were offering a bundle of $$$$. New opportunity, bigger challenge, more money. It happens in every profession.

 

3) He got lucky finding Bill Polian, and he fired him during the superbowl years. Who fires a GM that builds a superbowl team while they are still winning? I'll tell you who..Ralph Wilson.

 

As Johnny Carson might have said, 'Wrong again, bison-breath!' Bill Polian was promoted up thru the ranks - just like Buddy Nix - and got fired only because he publicly humiliated RW's late daughter, calling her one of the most vile names you can use to refer to a woman (think 'c-word'). Polian's temper and foul mouth were legendary - as Marv Levy has stated more than once - and still Wilson recanted after Polian's outrageous outburst and allowed him to finish out the season so that his son would not have to transfer out of high school (St. Francis) in his senior year.

 

4) Looking at the Ralph Wilson record since 1970, i can only guess that he got very lucky in 1964 and 1965. But if you want to credit Mr Wilson with those teams, then be my guest..as long as you give him credit for the mediocrity we now have. Lets all hug and give each other high fives for that great championship team of 36 years ago. Give me a break!!

 

Um, it was 46 years ago. Ralph must have gotten very lucky in 1963 - the Bills 3rd season of existence - too, since they took the AFL East and went to the playoffs. He got pretty lucky in 1966 as well, when the Bills finished 9-4-1, went to the playoffs for the 4th consecutive season, and missed playing in the first Superbowl ever against Vince Lombardi's Green Bay Packers by one game.

 

He got lucky again in the mid '70s, early 80's, and thru the 'dynasty era' that really began with the 1988 season and lasted thru 1993. So hey, I guess the Bills had pretty decent times in 4 of their 5 decades of existence. Don't give Ralph any credit for that, though.

 

You want to blame him for the current (or previous) temporary mediocrity? Fine, I'm sure he accepts the blame. Just be sure you also throw an occasional bone to the guy who brought 2 AFL championships, 4 AFC championships, 10 division titles, and 17 playoff appearances to the football fans of Buffalo.

 

First and ten.... sorry but you got used. Senator, I don't always agree with what you say, but I respect you for resorting to facts instead of emotional opinion.

[Just Jack]

1) What did RW do with Lou Saban?

 

Nothing. Lou quit on RW twice - in 1965 and again in 1976. (Lou quit on a lot of different organizations, some before even lasting a full season - which is why, even though I think he's deserving, to this day Saban is not on the Bills ' Wall of Fame ' despite the 2 AFL championships.)

He didn't even make it to the start of the season with Alfred State, he quit about a week before the season started. He ended up going to SUNY Canton.

 

Article from when he was hired...

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/26/sports/football-an-old-coach-s-new-offensive.html

[first_and_ten]

First and ten.... sorry but you got used. Senator, I don't always agree with what you say, but I respect you for resorting to facts instead of emotional opinion.

don't be sorry slack....but you might want to get your lips off your boyfriend's behind. It's pretty obvious that RW has either fired or driven away any competent football people this organization has ever had.

Edited October 17, 2010 by first_and_ten