John Cocktosten Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 We'd be LUCKY to have the success the Chargers have had over the last few years, winning their division, making the playoffs. That's the point. The main problem that I have with this admittedly lengthy rebuild is that it's not a guarantee yet so many are acting like it's sure-fire. The Kelsay extension, the Trent fumbling and the Marshawn mishandling has to make even the ardent of fan crack just a bit.
thewildrabbit Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 "There IS no sellout and there will continue to be blackouts because of moves like the Kelsay extension which ARE THE PROBLEM." I totally agree with you. I said "moves like the Kelsay extension" which include horrible drafting, terrible free agents signings and laughable FO choices. And yes, this "new" regime is heading down that same path with the Kelsay extension, the mishandling of Trent and the inability of any of Nix's draft picks other than Spiller to make an impact on a team that is void of incumbent talent . The Kelsay extension is nothing more than a microcosm of this organization's continued ineptitude. SHHHH... the homies are still gulping down the koolaid. It is unreal to me that so many fans are still sold on Gailey and Nix after many obvious screw ups.. The fact that Nix brought in Cornell Green to play RT and paid him 3 mill, then to watch the guy play as poorly as he does and retain his job...screams at me Nix doesn't know what he is doing. Half the fans are buying into the fact that this year is for ""evaluations"", something the GM and staff should have been able to do in a few hours of film study in the off season, and then the other half want to lose every game so the team can draft the ""franchise QB"" So we get to watch him run for his life while playing behind guys like Cornell Green.
Delete This Account Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Thanks for the info. I was doubting the FO would jump and salute because of Sullivan. John, any info on whether or not we'll see more personnel moves/trades? I just as soon they lose with rooks and young guys than to lose with veterans. that was my thought, too. but they can be criticized for going the long way about doing things. i appreciate Nix and Gailey saying they need to re-evaluate, but they're doing so at the expense of an entire season. wouldn't rule out any other moves at this point, given how they're dumping players that don't fit. i wouldn't put it past them to wrangle another draft pick before Oct. 19. however, that's only a guess at this point. jw
BillsVet Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 with all due respect, and to be fair to all, must point out that i was informed by the Bills at around 6 p.m. last night that Nix was going to be made available some time today. jw Thanks John for the intel. I stand corrected in my assertion that the team responded to Sullivan's column.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) That's the point. The main problem that I have with this admittedly lengthy rebuild is that it's not a guarantee yet so many are acting like it's sure-fire. The Kelsay extension, the Trent fumbling and the Marshawn mishandling has to make even the ardent of fan crack just a bit. It's not guaranteed. Nothing really is in life. But so far, we havent really tried a REAL rebuild. We tore down alright. One of the last things Butler did for us was purge the roster of all of our elderly talent. But there was NEVER a plan to replace them. Donahoe had no plan, he was just selling tickets. Marv... well, lets just try to remember Marv as the HoF Head Coach, not the GM. I know that at this point it's tough to ask the fans to "be patient", but thats all we CAN do right now. And at least we have examples of these guys doing it successfully in the past. Either BILL-ieve, or find another team. Those are our only options. I won't defend the Kelsay extension, especially after last week's game. However, I disagree that Trent was "fumbled" and Marshawn was "mishandled". Those are strictly your opinions from being very frustrated. When you take a step back, they were handled as well as they could have been, and Marshawn worked out exactly like it would have, had they traded him earlier anyways. Marshawn and Trent being "mishandled" in the OLD Bills way of doing things, would have been allowing them to stay and rot on the sidelines and Marshawn would have walked for nothing in return, and Trent would have caused an un-necessary QB controversy. We're moving on, baby! Go Bills! Edited October 7, 2010 by DrDankenstein
Adam Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Nix doesn't have to comment on moves to make fans happy. He is a busy man and has a lot of work to do to rebuild the team. If fans need validation, then need to seek it elsewhere
John Cocktosten Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 I won't defend the Kelsay extension, especially after last week's game. However, I disagree that Trent was "fumbled" and Marshawn was "mishandled". Those are strictly your opinions from being very frustrated. When you take a step back, they were handled as well as they could have been, and Marshawn worked out exactly like it would have had they traded him earlier anyways. Especially after last week's game? Does that mean that you were satisfied with his play prior? Nix and Co had 3 years of tape on Trent and decided to give him no competition and award him the starter. 3 games in they can him...how is that not mishandling the situation? How did they not see what most fans saw? Marshawn could have and should have been traded long ago and the Bills would have gotten the same compensation. If this was done, the Bills would have J. Bell and the picks. Instead Nix plays his version of hardball and Bell is snatched up immediately. Sounds botched to me because now they are down a promising prospect.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Got to think about that sentence a bit. The coaches asked him to fail ? Edit: The difference seems to be that one was the QB that did everything the coaches asked him to do, and failed to produce; and, the other is a DE playing LB that did everything the coaches asked him to do, and continues to fail to produce. How's that? Again, the mystery is what they see in Kelsay. I guess he's role in this defense is to just "make **** up" because that's what it looks like he's doing.
bladiebla Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 That plan according to Nix is to build the team through the draft. He stated that they will try to accumulate as many draft picks as possible, while also being very careful in parting with any picks moving forward knowing they represent the team's future. Nix also reiterated that there will be a daily evaluation of the roster and that production will be a requirement for a player to remain on it. Euhrm.... holy crap... we'll be rebuilding for the next 4 years... For that strategy to work you either need a solid foundation or add to the strategy with aquiring solid to great FAs...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Edit: The difference seems to be that one was the QB that did everything the coaches asked him to do, and failed to produce; and, the other is a DE playing LB that did everything the coaches asked him to do, and continues to fail to produce. How's that? Again, the mystery is what they see in Kelsay. I guess he's role in this defense is to just "make **** up" because that's what it looks like he's doing. I was playing with you. But I do think Trent was not doing what the coaches were asking him - he just was not motivated enough or interested enough in doing a good job. (Okay, I will stop now as my intention is not to hijack this thread).
GR8PRKN Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Woo Hoo - as long as they're "good players" in the eyes of the front office I suppose I don't really care that they take up salary cap money and roster spaces but don't contribute anything on the field. Good Lord - that's the type of attitude that kills us - our willingness to see guys who don't produce in a game stick around because they embody the attitude and leadership the team wants in their players - WTF? If you want a good lockerroom attitude hire a consultant, get some Tony Robbins tapes, try accupuncture but don't give a 31 year old converted linebacker who can't produce a roster spot and $6 million a year - we need players, not guys you keep based on attitude. We do need players and until we get a lot more with great talent we need to keep marginal to good players on the roster, when we get an excellent palyer we let them go (Spiller Lynch). Kelsays contract is not guaranteed he can be cut at anytime (obviosly his signing bonus is a gimme). I don't see the logic in cutting a player if you don't have a replacement for him, Who is gonna take his spot Maybin? He is not the best and his pass coverge is poor but he is in there every down
DrDawkinstein Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) Especially after last week's game? Does that mean that you were satisfied with his play prior? no it just means that he was extra bad last week. Nix and Co had 3 years of tape on Trent and decided to give him no competition and award him the starter. 3 games in they can him...how is that not mishandling the situation? How did they not see what most fans saw? First, lets restate what you have made up, but this time use the FACTS that ACTUALLY HAPPENED. There was an open competition through OTAs and Camp. Trent, being the practice hero he is, had everyone fooled that he was back in action and willing to sling the ball. We ALL saw the same preseason that showed us the same thing. We ALL saw a much improved offense and a QB who was willing to throw the ball. Unfortunately, when it came down to real game time, Trent regressed to his former (true) self. It only took 2 weeks of poor play for Nix/Gailey to decide that Trent was not the QB he pretended to be, and that was that. They quickly moved, and moved on. Furthermore, given Trent's past potential, and the fact that Jauron and Co. were notoriously horrible offensive coaches, it is only prudent that Gailey (a long time QB guy) would want to see what HE could get out of him. Good managers do not make franchise effecting decisions based on film from a past inept staff. For as much as you "knew" Trent sucked, it was equally as likely that he was getting sandbagged with a terrible Offense/Offensive Coordinator. As it turned out, Trent was who we thought he was. You can not fault Nix/Gailey for wanting to see if they could make a QB out of the kid. EVERY NFL coach says the same thing about guys like Trent: "Let's see what I can do with him". Marshawn could have and should have been traded long ago and the Bills would have gotten the same compensation. If this was done, the Bills would have J. Bell and the picks. Instead Nix plays his version of hardball and Bell is snatched up immediately. Sounds botched to me because now they are down a promising prospect. If losing Bell is your entire reason for hating the way Nix handled Lynch, then I cant help you. You are obviously looking for stuff to B word about. He's a good, hard, young runner and will be easily replaced. Not the end of the world. We can find someone as good in next year's UFAs. You're nitpicking because you WANT to hate every move the Bills make and how they do it. Regardless of all of this, let's say the Bills handled Trent and Lynch like you wanted them to and they were gone before the season started... Do you really see this team being any different/better than they are right now? ------------------------------------------------------------- Euhrm.... holy crap... we'll be rebuilding for the next 4 years... For that strategy to work you either need a solid foundation or add to the strategy with aquiring solid to great FAs... It took them 4 years to change over a decade of losing in San Diego, so yes, it is very likely that this will take 4 years. Get on board, or find another team. It's going to be a long ride. Edited October 7, 2010 by DrDankenstein
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 I was playing with you. But I do think Trent was not doing what the coaches were asking him - he just was not motivated enough or interested enough in doing a good job. (Okay, I will stop now as my intention is not to hijack this thread). Figured as much. Not trying to hijack the thread either. Just commenting that the answers seem like pure propaganda; "Trust me, I have a plan". Two polar opposite decisions seemed to have been made on two players that fit an identical description. Retarding the development of the offense is secondary to making sure the right, quick decision is made after the season begins, etc.
GG Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 No, unless they're written off an evening game or breaking news. In fact, I'm guessing Sullivan wrote it before he left One Bills Drive yesterday afternoon. If he wrote it before he left, and TBN learned at 6 that Nix would be addressing the media, then it's a bush league editorial move to run with that story - as everyone would read Sully's column before Nix would speak and naturally tie Nix's press conference to the great power of Sully's columns. Underhanded, in my view - if that's how it really unfolded. Of course, it's worse to write that piece after you learned that Nix would go in front of the mike.
reddogblitz Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 I understand the rebuild idea somewhat. but some of the decisions have been downright wrong. Like drafting Spiller when we could have used the choice for something we need. I wish the interviewer had asked about the reasoning on that pick. And not bringing in some other QB who can actually play. Look at our QB situation now - Fitz (decent at best but at least with some experience), a guy who has played in 1 regular season game and zero TD passes, and a rookie not even good enough to make the opening day roster. If I told you this is what we would have now back in February, what would you say? Maybe it's gotta get worse before it gets better, but it sounds like it's not going to get better anytime soon.
billsfan_34 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 The more I hear Nix talk about this team the more I feel we are going in the right direction. I agree with the lodgic on Kelsay, I wonder who are the other 6 guys he is referring to? I think Donte an G wilson and maybe Bell. That being said I was glad he talked today regardless of why it was a good business decesion. I would venture to say a few of your core guys would be Fred Jackson, Kyle Williams, and Terrence McGee.
bladiebla Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 It took them 4 years to change over a decade of losing in San Diego, so yes, it is very likely that this will take 4 years. Get on board, or find another team. It's going to be a long ride. You do realize that Ralph wont give them 4 years right?
thewildrabbit Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Butler/Smith/Nix showed up in SD in 2001 and inherited a team so bad they had the #1 overall pick. They grabbed Tomlinson right away (started building with a RB, weird), and had a good draft, but were still pretty bad that year. They ended up with the #5 pick the next year. Two years after that, they still had the #1 overall pick (which they used on Manning/Rivers). Basically, it took 4 drafts before they saw any major turn-around. And now the Chargers, while not "power-houses", are contenders every year and have changed the culture of the organization. Eli didnt want to play there because people around the league still felt the organization was stuck in it's old ways. They proved that year that they weren't. It's going to take some time to fix the mess that Ralph and Co. spent the last 15 years making. It will not turn around in one season. Most likely not 2 seasons either. So hop on board and get ready for the haul, or jump off now and save everyone the whining (not you, that was to fans in general). Read the 1996-2003 section here, about the Chargers, and tell me that doesnt sound very familiar... http://en.wikipedia....96.E2.80.932003 What transpired in the late 90's and early 2000"s has no bearing on the current situation in the NFL, more specifically considering that recently 3 teams Miami-Baltimore-Atlanta all cleaned house / fired the head coach and hired new and all three teams made impact full turnarounds in ONE YEAR No team in this era is going to have the patience to rebuild for 5 years, especially considering this team has already been rebuilding for the last ten years.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 The furor over Kelsay's extension is emblematic of the Bills fan base and their obsession with stuff that doesn't matter. You're right. Why he got extended is a mystery. But it's not like they took money from another player to sign him. What Kelsay gets paid doesn't affect anything right now except the talk shows and chat boards. It happened. Get over it. Move on. PTR First, it's not a mystery why he got extended. He just explained why. He is just wrong about the quality of player that Kelsay is. 22 Kelsay type players on the field gets you an 0-16 record. So with regard to the money......when the Bills lose a Pat Williams because they don't want to pay him commensurate to his value around the league, fans should or shouldn't care? Money is important. The signing of duds Dockery and Walker to large contracts set the stage for the Peters fiasco. Players want to win, but they are well aware of the overpaid. See Eric Wood/Maybin exchange.
Adam Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 What transpired in the late 90's and early 2000"s has no bearing on the current situation in the NFL, more specifically considering that recently 3 teams Miami-Baltimore-Atlanta all cleaned house / fired the head coach and hired new and all three teams made impact full turnarounds in ONE YEAR No team in this era is going to have the patience to rebuild for 5 years, especially considering this team has already been rebuilding for the last ten years. Dear Harvey: You have a skewed version of history. Said teams drafted well for years, then succeeded after the coaching changes. You are wrong, but we still love you anyways Regards, Adam
Recommended Posts