Could an O-line shift be in the works?

[Thurman#1]

I noticed on another site that Wang is now practicing full time ... what I found interesting is he is working exclusively at Guard. So this started me thinking (always a bad thing).

 

Chan reciently stated he didn't feel that the O-line had the horsepower or weight to succeed.

 

I know Wood played center in college ... didn't Lavitre play tackle(old age, I can't remember)???

 

I know Urbik has good size.

 

and Hangman can play all the interior positions(but seems to me to get pushed back into the pocket way too much) ...

 

I know Green stinks, and even though everybody on TBD seems to feel Bell is improving, I'm just not astute enough to tell (so I think he stinks too).

 

What I'm thinking we may see a line of Bell-Wang-Wood-Urbik-Levitre after the bye ...

 

What do you guys who actually know what you are talking about when discussing O-line play think???

 

(I'm not proposing this, or predicting it will happen, I guess I'm tired about beating a dead hourse about trades we've made or should have made)

 

 

That's the kind of move that a team with a chance to do something this year makes. Teams developing for the future keep the developing young guys at the positions they're best at, the positions they will play in the future.

 

So, IMHO, no, no way. Far too much movement.

[Punch]

Bell is much further along, at this point in his career, as a LT than Jason Peters was at the same point in his own career - and right now may even be better than Peters is today...

 

 

Jason Peters Explains After Game That “Ain’t Nobody Perfect”

 

 

Eagles left tackle Jason Peters had a difficult game against the Washington Redskins, but he went into defense mode after the game when he was questioned by sports anchor/reporter Jamie Apody of Channel Six. Peters has struggled all season with holding and motion penalties, but he may have taken things to another level against the Redskins. The guy has become a “walking and talking” momentum killer.

 

I know people will still try, but I no longer think it's even remotely possible to deride the Peters trade--- except Eagles fans, of course

[The Senator]

I know people will still try, but I no longer think it's even remotely possible to deride the Peters trade--- except Eagles fans, of course

Don't you blaspheme, now. Don't you dare say anything bad about Jason The Almighty!

Edited October 7, 2010 by The Senator

[Thurman#1]

Nix mentioned at that now-infamous Monday Morning QB meeting/lunch that Urbik played a bunch of games as an OT...

 

OL Urbik settling in

 

Though he is listed as the backup to right guard Eric Wood, Urbik, who played a full season of right tackle in college, stayed on the practice field a few minutes late Wednesday working on snaps at center.

 

 

Wiki describes him as

 

an American football offensive guard/tackle for the Buffalo Bills of the National Football League. He was drafted by the Pittsburgh Steelers in the third round of the 2009 NFL Draft. He played college football at Wisconsin.

 

 

As we know, Wisconsin is known to produce a decent offensive lineman from time to time. Now we need to focus on getting Gabe Carimi next April.

 

 

 

My friend from Pittsburgh had some things to say about Urbik:

 

"Urbik was horrible in pre-season last year.Was kept only because he was a 3rd round pick.The OL coach was terrible, though. This year the Steelers picked up Kugler from the Bills who I think has done a good job (and did with the Bills considering the injuries and lack of QB etc there) This preseason Urbik looked a lot better, and stronger with better awareness and technique - still marginal footwork though. He lost out because Essex and Foster and Legursky can play other positions (LOT, ROT, C and FB respectively). Some are disappointed he was let go too early. They wanted to put him on the PS - but there were 6 or so teams after him as soon as he hit the waiver wire. The real story was that the steelers were targetting a different OG (Vasquez) in the draft and when he got snatched by San D. the pick before the Steelers they panicked and took the next best OL (Urbik) - Vasquez I believe started all last year for the Chargers."

 

That doesn't sound like a guy you'd want at OT.

 

I know people will still try, but I no longer think it's even remotely possible to deride the Peters trade--- except Eagles fans, of course

 

 

 

Try me. I have criticized it relentlessly, and will continue to do so, for the simple reason that it still looks like a horrible trade. No other reason.

 

I've debated it here endlessly and successfully. Don't want to bother doing it again now, but you are dead wrong, it's very possible indeed to make that argument.

 

And I'm not a fan of the NFL anymore, really, just of the Bills.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Thurman#1

[billsfan89]

I have no doubt they are going to tinker with this line big time come the bye. I think Bell is our LT for the rest of the season so its not going to be a change they make but I know they are going to replace Green and they are probably going to try to get Urbik in there somehow as well.

[Punch]

Try me. I have criticized it relentlessly, and will continue to do so, for the simple reason that it still looks like a horrible trade. No other reason.

 

I've debated it here endlessly and successfully. Don't want to bother doing it again now, but you are dead wrong, it's very possible indeed to make that argument.

 

And I'm not a fan of the NFL anymore, really, just of the Bills.

 

Successfully? I'm a longtime lurker so I'm well aware of your numerous rants on the subject. Considering you haven't exactly swayed anyone to the dark side I find your claims of success highly dubious.

 

HOWEVER, I am curious what you and the gurus at profootballfocus think of the criticisms he's currently facing in Philadelphia--- how can you spin it? He's being roasted by the media, the fans, and there are whispers in the lockerroom that he's not exactly a team player, which sounds pretty familiar to people in Buffalo.

[Thurman#1]

Crazy talk, mostly.

 

Wood was drafted to be a center - he'll be one of the best, for a long long time, once he's eventually shifted there and reunited with Brian Brohm.

 

Bell is much further along, at this point in his career, as a LT than Jason Peters was at the same point in his own career - and right now may even be better than Peters is today...

 

 

Jason Peters Explains After Game That Aint Nobody Perfect

 

 

Eagles left tackle Jason Peters had a difficult game against the Washington Redskins, but he went into defense mode after the game when he was questioned by sports anchor/reporter Jamie Apody of Channel Six. Peters has struggled all season with holding and motion penalties, but he may have taken things to another level against the Redskins. The guy has become a walking and talking momentum killer.

 

 

 

I won't bother with replying to most of this, because it's just some dude putting down an NFL player, and we get enough of the haters here vilifying Poz, Whitner, Hangartner, Freddy Jackson, Nix, Gailey, and frankly it just goes on and on and on.

 

But there is absolutely positively NO WAY that Bell is much further along than Peters was. In Peters' third year, he was elected to the Pro Bowl by the players, and Belichick said Peters was the best player on the offensive side, by far. Any chance of Bell being elected to the Pro Bowl this year? Simply not true. I understand wishful thinking, but Peters was a TE through college and his rookie year. During the offseason of his second year, he changed to RT, and within 8 games, he was starting and instantly the best Bills OL, by far.

 

There's no comparison between the two, especially because Bell had two full years of LT experience in college and a year of pro practice LT experience before he ever played a down in the pros. Peters had one year of OTAs, one training camp and eight weeks of practice at LT, and many Bills fans thought he should have made the Pro Bowl his first year, despite having played only half the season. Not comparable.

 

Successfully? I'm a longtime lurker so I'm well aware of your numerous rants on the subject. Considering you haven't exactly swayed anyone to the dark side I find your claims of success highly dubious.

 

HOWEVER, I am curious what you and the gurus at profootballfocus think of the criticisms he's currently facing in Philadelphia--- how can you spin it? He's being roasted by the media, the fans, and there are whispers in the lockerroom that he's not exactly a team player, which sounds pretty familiar to people in Buffalo.

 

 

 

I haven't swayed people? On the contrary, several have said they were swayed (though it's likely to have been the stats I brought rather than any quality of eloquence I might or might not possess), and about half the folks on these boards agree with me, however they acquired that POV.

 

I'm curious about profootballfocus too. I haven't decided whether I want to go there this year, since they are now a pay site. I love their stuff, but am not sure whether I'm that interested.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Thurman#1

[Punch]

I won't bother with replying to most of this, because it's just some dude putting down an NFL player, and we get enough of the haters here vilifying Poz, Whitner, Hangartner, Freddy Jackson, Nix, Gailey, and frankly it just goes on and on and on.

 

But there is absolutely positively NO WAY that Bell is much further along than Peters was. In Peters' third year, he was elected to the Pro Bowl by the players, and Belichick said Peters was the best player on the offensive side, by far. Any chance of Bell being elected to the Pro Bowl this year? Simply not true. I understand wishful thinking, but Peters was a TE through college and his rookie year. During the offseason of his second year, he changed to RT, and within 8 games, he was starting and instantly the best Bills OL, by far.

 

There's no comparison between the two, especially because Bell had two full years of LT experience in college and a year of pro practice LT experience before he ever played a down in the pros. Peters had one year of OTAs, one training camp and eight weeks of practice at LT, and many Bills fans thought he should have made the Pro Bowl his first year, despite having played only half the season. Not comparable.

 

I can't argue with this at all, although Belichick does like to fluff our players a bit. I truly wish the Peters of 2006 continued to work hard and become a team leader. I saw some highlights from JP's first start on opening day against Houston in 2005 and had totally forgotten that Peters lined up as a tackle eligible and caught Losman's 1st TD. He was a great athlete, all around.

[Thurman#1]

Quick transcript of the controversial interview:

 

Reporter: “Can you talk about how penalties add up to losses?”

 

Peters: “I don’t say they lead up to losses, because we did have penalties before and won. It do hurt your team overall, but you know, that’s something you’ve gotta clean up. Ain’t nobody perfect. You can look around the league today, I’m pretty sure 90% of the teams that won today had a bunch of penalties. So it’s stuff you’ve got to correct, little things, that’s why you practice it.”

 

Reporter: “Is it frustrating to you when little things like that happen after you work so hard?”

 

Peters: “Yeah, it’s real frustrating. You just can’t think about it. Go on to the next play and correct it on Wednesday.

 

Reporter: “This loss overall, where does it sit for you guys, cuz this game was so hyped up, but it was a division game as well.”

 

Peters: “To me, it crushes me a little bit, cuz we worked so hard and prepared so hard for this game, especially it was a division game. We wanted to come in here and put some points on the board and we just couldn’t get the win. We started off too slow.

 

------------------

 

Wow. Shocking.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Thurman#1

[Punch]

------------------

 

Wow. Shocking.

 

I'll say this--- you sound completely crazy.

 

The Philadelphia sports media unanimously feels that the catastrophic results of the Jason Peters trade could cost Andy Reid his job, and yet here you are defending the oft injured Eagles LT (a team leader only in accrued penalties, for both 2009 and also so far in 2010) to the last. You're like the legendary "band playing on" from the Titanic. It's commendable, really.

 

I just don't understand why you're so angry about it on a message board. Nobody really cares if you're right or wrong or pleased or mournful about it.

[nucci]

I'll say this--- you sound completely crazy.

 

The Philadelphia sports media unanimously feels that the catastrophic results of the Jason Peters trade could cost Andy Reid his job, and yet here you are defending the oft injured Eagles LT (a team leader only in accrued penalties, for both 2009 and also so far in 2010) to the last. You're like the legendary "band playing on" from the Titanic. It's commendable, really.

 

I just don't understand why you're so angry about it on a message board. Nobody really cares if you're right or wrong or pleased or mournful about it.

Hey Punch, I live in the Philly area and you are right. They are blasting him here and he had a horrible game against the Redskins.

[The Senator]

My friend from Pittsburgh had some things to say about Urbik:

 

"Urbik was horrible in pre-season last year.Was kept only because he was a 3rd round pick.The OL coach was terrible, though. This year the Steelers picked up Kugler from the Bills who I think has done a good job (and did with the Bills considering the injuries and lack of QB etc there) This preseason Urbik looked a lot better, and stronger with better awareness and technique - still marginal footwork though. He lost out because Essex and Foster and Legursky can play other positions (LOT, ROT, C and FB respectively). Some are disappointed he was let go too early. They wanted to put him on the PS - but there were 6 or so teams after him as soon as he hit the waiver wire. The real story was that the steelers were targetting a different OG (Vasquez) in the draft and when he got snatched by San D. the pick before the Steelers they panicked and took the next best OL (Urbik) - Vasquez I believe started all last year for the Chargers."

 

That doesn't sound like a guy you'd want at OT.

 

 

And your 'friend from Pittsburgh' works for the Steelers in what capacity? (Or is he really just an amorphous amalgamation of several blogs you quickly googled and excerpted?)

 

Bills Weren’t Only Team That Wanted Kraig Urbik

 

(I'll post the rest of them if you want, just in case you forgot to bookmark them.)

 

Try me. I have criticized it relentlessly, and will continue to do so, for the simple reason that it still looks like a horrible trade. No other reason.

 

I've debated it here endlessly and successfully. Don't want to bother doing it again now, but you are dead wrong, it's very possible indeed to make that argument.

 

And I'm not a fan of the NFL anymore, really, just of the Bills.

Thurman, you're a legend in your own mind - I'll say that for ya.

 

(I was expecting Mickey and PdaDDY to rush to Fat Boy's defense too, but apparently they're not slow learners.)

Edited October 7, 2010 by The Senator

[The Senator]

I won't bother with replying to most of this, because it's just some dude putting down an NFL player, and we get enough of the haters here vilifying Poz, Whitner, Hangartner, Freddy Jackson, Nix, Gailey, and frankly it just goes on and on and on.

 

But there is absolutely positively NO WAY that Bell is much further along than Peters was. In Peters' third year, he was elected to the Pro Bowl by the players, and Belichick said Peters was the best player on the offensive side, by far. Any chance of Bell being elected to the Pro Bowl this year? Simply not true. I understand wishful thinking, but Peters was a TE through college and his rookie year. During the offseason of his second year, he changed to RT, and within 8 games, he was starting and instantly the best Bills OL, by far. In Peters' third year, he was elected to the Pro Bowl by the players, and Belichick said Peters was the best player on the offensive side, by far.

Er...um...in Peter's 3rd year (2006), he won the starting job as RT. He was cut in his first year (2004), then re-signed to the practice squad in November - he was first elected to the Pro Bowl in his fourth year (2007). As Marv Levy would say, "Look it up, Thurman!"

 

There's no comparison between the two, especially because Bell had two full years of LT experience in college and a year of pro practice LT experience before he ever played a down in the pros. Peters had one year of OTAs, one training camp and eight weeks of practice at LT, and many Bills fans thought he should have made the Pro Bowl his first year, despite having played only half the season. Not comparable.

You're right (for once) - there IS no comparison - Bell never even played organized football until his sophomore year in college!

 

I haven't swayed people? On the contrary, several have said they were swayed (though it's likely to have been the stats I brought rather than any quality of eloquence I might or might not possess), and about half the folks on these boards agree with me, however they acquired that POV.

 

:w00t:

 

All TSW posters who have been swayed (or "said they were swayed") by Thurman #1's man-love for Jason Peters, please fall in and sound off...

 

 

(crickets)

Edited October 7, 2010 by The Senator

[Coach Tuesday]

Peters is now getting paid $10 mil to play right tackle (essentially). That situation won't last long. If Vick is the QB next year, expect him to be cut.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Coach Tuesday

[The Senator]

Peters is now getting paid $10 mil to play right tackle (essentially). That situation won't last long. If Vick is the QB next year, expect him to be cut.

I take it you're not one of the ones Thurman has 'converted'

[Mike in Syracuse]

It really doesn't matter who lines up on the RT or LT slots. Within 6 months the coaster riders here will be declaring him a failure regardless of reality.

[Green Lightning]

Regardless, making changes to a healthy OL in mid-season is indicative of a major issue. Remember moving Peters from RT to LT and inserting Pennington at RT during bye week 2006?

 

Bell isn't serviceable at LT, Levitre and Wood aren't playing to the level at the round they were selected (for guards especially) and Hangartner is average at best.

 

Urbik hasn't played OT since college (like Butler) and it's a shot in the dark to think he can handle the role in the NFL. They need serious help at OT on both sides. I think Hangartner eventually settles into the role he occupied in Carolina: principal interior OL backup.

 

 

Agree that it's a risk to jumble the line midseason but this season is about personnel changes. I don't think we have any other choice but to change up the line. I disagree with your summation of D. Bell. He gets better and better the more he plays. He is likely our LT for years to come . Agree on Hangartner .

[Billmatic]

I think everyone is looking too far into this with all the shifting of these guys. In order to play OL in these league you need to be versatile so if a starter goes down, someone can step in. On sunday you can only dress a certain amount of OL, i think you can only have 2-3 OL backups. The staff is practicing these guys Wang, Urbrik, Howard at other positions so that should someone go down, they have the best and most versatile athlete come in and fill their shoes. I don't think it's because they want to move them across the line from position to position.

[Coach Tuesday]

I take it you're not one of the ones Thurman has 'converted'

 

I'm in the middle. I didn't like the trade, primarily because (i) they had no backup plan (and still don't), and (ii) it's not like Ralph re-invested the money that would've gone to Peters. It smacked of a typical Ralph Wilson money-saving move resulting in a lost season for the team. That said, I agree that Peters is overrated.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'm in the middle. I didn't like the trade, primarily because (i) they had no backup plan (and still don't), and (ii) it's not like Ralph re-invested the money that would've gone to Peters. It smacked of a typical Ralph Wilson money-saving move resulting in a lost season for the team. That said, I agree that Peters is overrated.

Peters was a rare talent and when he was properly motivated he demonstrated it, outside factors left aside. (We haven't had a guy on the OL that could fire off at the snap of the ball and cave-in the side of a defense since.) The loss of focus on his game, retirement of his mentor, contract disputes with Hard-Ball Brandon (wahoo!), hold-outs, injuries, trades have certainly reversed the fortunes of what was a meteoric rise to the pinnacle of his profession.