Rookie contracts next draft if there's a lock out

[dayman]

Will they get them? Or will we wait for new rookie pay scale w/ new cba?

[Sabre Bill]

whenever they play football again after this season, it will be with rookie contracts.

[Trader]

whenever they play football again after this season, it will be with rookie contracts.

 

There may be rookie contracts in effect but the Draft may be illegal if there is no union and no CBA. The only thing that makes the NFL Draft legal is that it is part of a union contract. Without a union or a contract the entire draft will be subject to court review. An NFL draft would have no legal grounds it would be like Google and Microsoft drafting seniors out of MIT. All it will take is one player who says, "I don't want to be drafted by the Bills, I want to sign with the Giants". The whole thing will fold like a house of cards.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

There may be rookie contracts in effect but the Draft may be illegal if there is no union and no CBA. The only thing that makes the NFL Draft legal is that it is part of a union contract. Without a union or a contract the entire draft will be subject to court review. An NFL draft would have no legal grounds it would be like Google and Microsoft drafting seniors out of MIT. All it will take is one player who says, "I don't want to be drafted by the Bills, I want to sign with the Giants". The whole thing will fold like a house of cards.

From everything i've seen or read this is not close to accurate.

 

"If there’s a lockout, will there still be a draft next spring?

 

Yes, but it won’t be business as usual for the teams or for the players they select. With no CBA in place, teams won’t be able to sign players, and those post-draft minicamps will be non-existent. Also, in the absence of a CBA, the league’s ability to generate revenues from the new crop of big-name draftees will be limited. In other words, if you want to purchase one of those sweet new Jake Locker jerseys in the aftermath of his being drafted, you’ll have to buy one without his name on the back of it or wait until a new CBA is signed."

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-laborquestions090810

 

So there will be a draft, but if a rookie wage scale is developed with the new CBA the players drafted in the 2011 draft will sign their contracts following said scale. I assume the question is asked in regards to the Bills paying a high draft pick QB.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[LancasterSteve]

From everything i've seen or read this is not close to accurate.

 

"If there’s a lockout, will there still be a draft next spring?

 

Yes, but it won’t be business as usual for the teams or for the players they select. With no CBA in place, teams won’t be able to sign players, and those post-draft minicamps will be non-existent. Also, in the absence of a CBA, the league’s ability to generate revenues from the new crop of big-name draftees will be limited. In other words, if you want to purchase one of those sweet new Jake Locker jerseys in the aftermath of his being drafted, you’ll have to buy one without his name on the back of it or wait until a new CBA is signed."

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-laborquestions090810

 

Sounds like Wilson:

Further, there are owners who intentionally keep revenues low to maintain their spot in the NFL’s lower 17 and ensure that they’ll receive money under the current system.

[Sabre Bill]

Whether the legality of a non-cba draft is suspect or not is moot. The NFL will do what it has to do to keep the gravy train rolling. It might hit a bump or two, maybe even come to a replacement player filled slow down, but the NFL knows what it's doing. There's no way this gets to court over draftees' rights.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Sounds like Wilson:

Further, there are owners who intentionally keep revenues low to maintain their spot in the NFLs lower 17 and ensure that theyll receive money under the current system.

Could be driving force behind contracts such as Kelsay's. Could resign him for $3 mill, but if they sign him for $6 mill will guarantee more money coming back later.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[Trader]

From everything i've seen or read this is not close to accurate.

 

"If there’s a lockout, will there still be a draft next spring?

 

Yes, but it won’t be business as usual for the teams or for the players they select. With no CBA in place, teams won’t be able to sign players, and those post-draft minicamps will be non-existent. Also, in the absence of a CBA, the league’s ability to generate revenues from the new crop of big-name draftees will be limited. In other words, if you want to purchase one of those sweet new Jake Locker jerseys in the aftermath of his being drafted, you’ll have to buy one without his name on the back of it or wait until a new CBA is signed."

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-laborquestions090810

 

So there will be a draft, but if a rookie wage scale is developed with the new CBA the players drafted in the 2011 draft will sign their contracts following said scale. I assume the question is asked in regards to the Bills paying a high draft pick QB.

 

Ok I will play along with your logic. Let's take it to the next step. What happens when the Bills Draft Locker and He says, Gee I don't want to play there.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Ok I will play along with your logic. Let's take it to the next step. What happens when the Bills Draft Locker and He says, Gee I don't want to play there.

It's not my logic, it's the system and rules that are in place.

 

As the rules currently state he would have to sit out the season and re-enter the draft the following year. Until a new CBA is signed there will be no contracts for the rookies. I'm sure there will be language in the CBA on how they will handle the signing of the 2011 draftees as it's possible both the 2011 class and 2012 class will be signing at the same time. So, my "logic" tells me, if Jake Locker was drafted in 2011 and when a new CBA was reached refused to sign (which with a rookie wage scale would be completely related to the team, not money), he would re-enter the draft in 2013. An awful lot of time to waste and money to pass up.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Ghost of Rob Johnson

[billsfan89]

Its going to be a sticking point in the next CBA for sure but hopefully the Bills just draft the best player available as they won't have to worry about paying him.

[dayman]

any player that wanted to play under the NEW cba would honor whatever the league said...which would be play for the team you are drafted by

[Trader]

It's not my logic, it's the system and rules that are in place.

 

As the rules currently state he would have to sit out the season and re-enter the draft the following year. Until a new CBA is signed there will be no contracts for the rookies. I'm sure there will be language in the CBA on how they will handle the signing of the 2011 draftees as it's possible both the 2011 class and 2012 class will be signing at the same time. So, my "logic" tells me, if Jake Locker was drafted in 2011 and when a new CBA was reached refused to sign (which with a rookie wage scale would be completely related to the team, not money), he would re-enter the draft in 2013. An awful lot of time to waste and money to pass up.

 

"the system and rules that are in place" Are no longer in place if the union adopts it's poison pill strategy which is why each team has voted independently to decertify the union. If there is an impass in negotiations and that is a big if I admit. The Union can take those votes to the NLRB and decertify. At that point there is no union. Pro Football is not exempt from the Sherman Anti Trust Act. The league would not be able to fix contracts for rookies or for that matter tell them where they can or cannot play. It would a combination in restraint of trade. The top rookies and their agents would sue the league. End of Draft.

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

"the system and rules that are in place" Are no longer in place if the union adopts it's poison pill strategy which is why each team has voted independently to decertify the union. If there is an impass in negotiations and that is a big if I admit. The Union can take those votes to the NLRB and decertify. At that point there is no union. Pro Football is not exempt from the Sherman Anti Trust Act. The league would not be able to fix contracts for rookies or for that matter tell them where they can or cannot play. It would a combination in restraint of trade. The top rookies and their agents would sue the league. End of Draft.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree and see how it plays out. When the CBA stops, the movement of the league stops. Once a new CBA is in place "the system and rules that are in place" would go back into place. At which point the player's who were drafted during the time period when there were no CBA rights would be awarded to those teams that drafted them. That team would then sign the player, if the player refused, they would go back into the following years draft. No new contracts will be signed during the time period of which there is no CBA. The players can certainly go outside of the league and play in the UFL, CFL, or some other league but will not sign with teams within the NFL. If you get a chance read the yahoo article I linked above, it's somewhat informative.

[Webster Guy]

Ok I will play along with your logic. Let's take it to the next step. What happens when the Bills Draft Locker and He says, Gee I don't want to play there.

Same thing that happened to Eli Manning, Elway etc.... It doesn't matter what the players say, the team that drafts them gets their rights. Trades follow if a player refuses to sign, but in no major professional sport can any player just chose the team they want to. Obviously.

[Trader]

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree and see how it plays out. When the CBA stops, the movement of the league stops. Once a new CBA is in place "the system and rules that are in place" would go back into place. At which point the player's who were drafted during the time period when there were no CBA rights would be awarded to those teams that drafted them. That team would then sign the player, if the player refused, they would go back into the following years draft. No new contracts will be signed during the time period of which there is no CBA. The players can certainly go outside of the league and play in the UFL, CFL, or some other league but will not sign with teams within the NFL. If you get a chance read the yahoo article I linked above, it's somewhat informative.

 

Thanks for pointing out the Yahoo article it does contain scenarios that I have not considered and it appears to be well researched and well written. What I wrote does not conflict with the Yahoo story. I took it to the next step which is the poison pill-anti trust strategy. The Yahoo story does make brief reference to that strategy but does not deal with it. I believe that the reason they don't is that they believe (probably correctly) that a deal will be made prior to going to the extreme strategies. My point was to illuminate that the Union has tools at it's disposal that will make this a very difficult negotiation which will entail a lot of brinksmanship and will go down to the wire and perhaps beyond. The owners are not holding all the cards here.