Booger Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Seeing that all the above players could still be suiting up for the Bills, would the Bills be a better team if that were to be the D? Of course 90% of these players were either traded or let go (meaning not resigned) because they were "too old" or "had not future in the Bills plans"..... To me, even having these guys, maybe replacing one ever so often (Milloy or Haggan) with a draft pick seems like the correct way to do it...OR more importantly focus on the Offense (O-Line)..... This could have been the starting D....and if someone tries to RIP this apart, please look at the product the Bills are putting on the field currently. Remember, most of these players left with ZERO compensation. I even left out CLEMENTS who was awarded way to much money to justify....
boyst Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Deja Vu? I swear there was this conversation last night and the past few nights.
Punch Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Marginally better; if you're talking about simply composing a Bills team with the players either released or traded they'd be treading water, no better than they were from 2002-05. No doubt, the Bills should have kept a number of those players (Pat Williams, Winfield, Greer, Spikes, even Fletcher although he was maddening at times with his braindead penalties and downfield tackles), but not all of them.
DaBills51 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Why does there have to be a new topic created for this every week....pick one of the 2 from last week and post there.... http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/119959-former-bills-still-in-nfl-vs-current-bills/page__p__1987750__hl__bannan__fromsearch__1#entry1987750 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/120911-fomer-bills-playing-on-other-teams/page__p__1996349__hl__bannan__fromsearch__1#entry1996349 All three of these threads should be merged.
Original Byrd Man Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Seeing that all the above players could still be suiting up for the Bills, would the Bills be a better team if that were to be the D? Of course 90% of these players were either traded or let go (meaning not resigned) because they were "too old" or "had not future in the Bills plans"..... To me, even having these guys, maybe replacing one ever so often (Milloy or Haggan) with a draft pick seems like the correct way to do it...OR more importantly focus on the Offense (O-Line)..... This could have been the starting D....and if someone tries to RIP this apart, please look at the product the Bills are putting on the field currently. Remember, most of these players left with ZERO compensation. I even left out CLEMENTS who was awarded way to much money to justify.... You have to realize many of the players you mention have done well because of the talent around them. Leonard is a good example. We cut him because of his lack of speed. He was a liablity in coverage. The Jets are able to buffer him, we couldn't. Milloy is old. I loved Spikes, but he was coming off a potentially career altering injury at the end of his contract and asked for his release, as he didn't like the D we were running. Even so it took him years to get back to a being somewhat close to the player he was. Winfield was a top notch cover corner with stone hands who wanted top CB money at the time. I still wish we had Greer, the guy was a player even if he had problems with injuries. The biggest problem has been not extending the right people before they get to the 9th hour. I was never a big Fletcher fan. He is not an impact player, and he reminds me of Pos. Too many plays, to far up the field. Give me the guy shedding blockers and making plays at the LOS, or in the "O" backfield. So I believe your answer is, if we were to have all these people back, some would be players, but most of them not, and Our D might be better but not significantly. IMHO
Red Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I was thinking after watching the 'Fins/ Pats game last night. Incognito looked pretty devastating. I don't know why he was not retained. Gailey was quoted as having made some comments to the announcers that we just are not big enough on the offensive line. Incognito at G, Wood at C, Levitre has been decent. Hangartner in reserve along w/Urbik. What's not to like about that? Incognito destroyed Ty Warren (atleast I think it was him) on a few running plays and took it to the second, and third level of the defense on a few others. Why wouldn't we want some nasty in our blocking? In the same game, Dolphins DE Cameron Wake was a beast in the second quarter. The Bills were one of I think 3 or 4 teams in pursuit of the former CFL star; but Miami got the goods. I can't help but think how our pass rush would be helped by him. How could we not throw more money out there than the Dolphins? Watching the Pats game vs us, I was impressed by TE Gronkowski. He ran, caught, and blocked well. Plus he's a local boy. He would have been a nice pick up. Brandon Pettigrew also seems to be blossoming in Detroit. He went in the 1st, but he would have been a nice one for us. Imagine those 2 on our team. Then I think about the bungling of allowing London Fletcher, Pat Williams, and Antoine Winfield to leave. Drafting Whitner instead of Haloti Ngata. Maybin instead of Orakpo or Oher. This team would be remarkably different if we had made better decisions on all of these players. We'd have a monster pass rush with Wake and Orakpo at opposing ends. Ngata and Big Pat in the middle. Williams to spell relief or be part of the rotation. Our secondary would be just as strong. LB would have Orakpo, Fletcher, Poz, and maybe a high round draft pick. Our offensive line would still need a tackle, but we'd have the TE mystery that has plagued this franchise since Metzalaars retired come to an end. Riemersma was pretty good, but since then the position has been a big '0'. Our O-line would be maybe a solid free agent LT- Levitre- Wood- Incognito- Oher. Young, nasty, and tough. What kills me about all of this- is that none of it is a reason- it's all within reality that these players were either ours, or within our grasp had different (i.e.: better) talent evaluators been at OBD. Indeed, how much different of a team would we be with better personnel moves
BADOLBILZ Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Seeing that all the above players could still be suiting up for the Bills, would the Bills be a better team if that were to be the D? Of course 90% of these players were either traded or let go (meaning not resigned) because they were "too old" or "had not future in the Bills plans"..... To me, even having these guys, maybe replacing one ever so often (Milloy or Haggan) with a draft pick seems like the correct way to do it...OR more importantly focus on the Offense (O-Line)..... This could have been the starting D....and if someone tries to RIP this apart, please look at the product the Bills are putting on the field currently. Remember, most of these players left with ZERO compensation. I even left out CLEMENTS who was awarded way to much money to justify.... Not to imply that the media has anything whatsoever to do with the state of this team, they don't, but this trend of stupidity has not been well documented at all. Every move the Bills make seems to get taken individually, and members of the media choose whether they like it or not based on their feelings about those players. It shouldn't take 5 years to realize that you can't start out mediocre, then repeatedly let some of your best players walk for little or no return, then use all your top picks to replace them with......OBVIOUSLY.......unproven players. You have burnt all your improvement chips just trying to get back to square one, lost more games while waiting to develop the new talent, and in the process you will miss on some of those picks and end up worse for it. Fortunately for the Bills FO, fans are all about the new toys. Let Clements walk? No big deal, McKelvin is going to be great. McKelvin had missed more games by the end of his rookie season than Clements did his entire career in Buffalo and the jury is still out on whether he is even a starting CB in the NFL. The Bills saved themselves money, but used a first round pick they needed to use elsewhere, then may well have a bust on their hands in McKelvin. That's how you go from mediocre to complete sh*t and that's what they have been doing drafting Whitner/McCargo/Lynch/Poz/McKelvin/Spiller very early to replace good players that they let walk or gave away for peanuts.
Punch Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I was thinking after watching the 'Fins/ Pats game last night. Incognito looked pretty devastating. I don't know why he was not retained. Gailey was quoted as having made some comments to the announcers that we just are not big enough on the offensive line. Incognito at G, Wood at C, Levitre has been decent. Hangartner in reserve along w/Urbik. What's not to like about that? Incognito destroyed Ty Warren (atleast I think it was him) on a few running plays and took it to the second, and third level of the defense on a few others. Why wouldn't we want some nasty in our blocking? The Bills guards pushed the Pats D-line around, too. The Jets front 7 are just that much better. Plus, Wood is not healthy enough to make the move to center just yet. I wish to high holy heaven we were able to acquire Wake and Dansby as Miami had (and the Bills tried with both), but what can we do. There are a number of talented 3-4 linebackers entering free agency after this season, hopefully they can attract 1 or 2 of them.
rpcolosi Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I love the topic here. This is EXACTLY it. And this is WHY Buddy is the right guy. The last regime did NOT want to re-sign or give extensions to existing talent. They simply let it walk. Buddy wants to do it the right way, draft, groom and keep them. Donahoe/Butler did a good job with these guys - but a poor job at keeping them (through levy in there too). Same thing with Peters. It will take some time, and a few high draft picks, but we are on the right path. This team needed to bottom out. It needs to get over the 7-9s mediocrity. We need a few high draft picks... Let's trust in the work these men are doing. They've got a plan. More importantly Gailey CLEARLY wants guys who will play hard, play for him and WANT to win. I like this coach. a lot. don't really care what most of you think, this guy is a ball coach and he has fire, he has passion and he actually does know how to win.
Red Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Not to imply that the media has anything whatsoever to do with the state of this team, they don't, but this trend of stupidity has not been well documented at all. Every move the Bills make seems to get taken individually, and members of the media choose whether they like it or not based on their feelings about those players. It shouldn't take 5 years to realize that you can't start out mediocre, then repeatedly let some of your best players walk for little or no return, then use all your top picks to replace them with......OBVIOUSLY.......unproven players. You have burnt all your improvement chips just trying to get back to square one, lost more games while waiting to develop the new talent, and in the process you will miss on some of those picks and end up worse for it. Fortunately for the Bills FO, fans are all about the new toys. Let Clements walk? No big deal, McKelvin is going to be great. McKelvin had missed more games by the end of his rookie season than Clements did his entire career in Buffalo and the jury is still out on whether he is even a starting CB in the NFL. The Bills saved themselves money, but used a first round pick they needed to use elsewhere, then may well have a bust on their hands in McKelvin. That's how you go from mediocre to complete sh*t and that's what they have been doing drafting Whitner/McCargo/Lynch/Poz/McKelvin/Spiller very early to replace good players that they let walk or gave away for peanuts. Well, you are echoing what I have been saying for a long time now: that the reason that the Bills are in their sad state is because they have had horrible people making personnel decisions. Yes, that includes Modrak. The Bills have basically been chasing their collective tail this past decade. They allow a proven player to walk, a a player that no doubt could be a cornerstone of your team (Winfield, Fletcher, Williams) and LEAD your team for the next few years for a lesser skilled player. The learning curve for a rookie is about 2-3 years. Why couldn't we retain those veteran, solid, HEALTHY vets who are STILL performing at a high level and build around them? Then we have John Guy in a position of trying to correct Modrak's ineptitude of poor drafting by being an even bigger idiot when making free agent decisions. Dockery, Royal, Walker (Langston), Walker (Darwin), Triplett...just plain terrible. Incognito. How does he not have value? We got outbid for the services of Cameron Wake in Miami. Maybin was our choice instead of Orakpo or Oher. Whitner instead of Ngata. The Bills are always playing catch up WITH THEMSELVES!! Through poor drafting, terrible free agent signings, and no developmental program they have taken 1 step forward and 3 back. They shortchange their own plan. Then we sign some boner of a player to an extension like Chris Kelsay. I mean, nothing personal against the guy himself- but his play on the field has not warranted an extension. Then we balk at Jason Peters. Now, I don't agree with Peters and a player holding a team hostage when they are already under contract, and I'm glad we got Wood for Peters, it does not make sense in terms of talent of the player.
T master Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Seeing that all the above players could still be suiting up for the Bills, would the Bills be a better team if that were to be the D? Of course 90% of these players were either traded or let go (meaning not resigned) because they were "too old" or "had not future in the Bills plans"..... To me, even having these guys, maybe replacing one ever so often (Milloy or Haggan) with a draft pick seems like the correct way to do it...OR more importantly focus on the Offense (O-Line)..... This could have been the starting D....and if someone tries to RIP this apart, please look at the product the Bills are putting on the field currently. Remember, most of these players left with ZERO compensation. I even left out CLEMENTS who was awarded way to much money to justify.... BOY DOES THIS POST SOUND FAMILIAR !!!!!
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