Toledo Bill Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I would guess that the majority of posters on this board are under 50 years of age and quite a few became Bill's fans during the late 80's and 90's. I was following and rooting for this team since their inception and I can tell you that Ralph Wilson has always been a cheapskate and the "glory years" were simply due to Polian. In the 70's, for Pete's sake he made Harvey Johnson the head coach twice! Wilson has a track record that proves what type of commitment he has... which is dedicated to the bottom line. I will always support the Bills and this team absolutely stinks but there have been worse periods like the 70's. You should have heard the fans then. They HATED Wilson. I never want to see the team leave but for those apologists of Wilson, I am afraid you are clueless.
SuperKillerRobots Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I would guess that the majority of posters on this board are under 50 years of age and quite a few became Bill's fans during the late 80's and 90's. I was following and rooting for this team since their inception and I can tell you that Ralph Wilson has always been a cheapskate and the "glory years" were simply due to Polian. In the 70's, for Pete's sake he made Harvey Johnson the head coach twice! Wilson has a track record that proves what type of commitment he has... which is dedicated to the bottom line. I will always support the Bills and this team absolutely stinks but there have been worse periods like the 70's. You should have heard the fans then. They HATED Wilson. I never want to see the team leave but for those apologists of Wilson, I am afraid you are clueless. I've said it before - I started watching football in the late 80s and early 90s (about when I was 10), so I'm pretty sure I'm biased. I've also dealt with the decision-makers in the franchise (including Wilson and Littman) for the past 5 years, so I know them in a little different light than the average fan.
Section444 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 There is no defending Wilson. He's had longer than any owner in the league, and he's failed to produce a Super Bowl; no excuses.
Another Point of View Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Ralph will spend the money when it is a good investment. Example, Jim Kelly looks like he could lead Buffalo to the playoffs O.J. needs help on the offensive line to gain more yards/sell more tickets. He is not cheap. He just does not have the passion to remain competetive every season. If Ralph see the chance to make even more money he will invest.
NaPolian8693 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 He's always been one of the worst owners in football. The only thing he has ever done well is to build a propaganda machine that brainwashes the locals into feeling like they don't deserve an NFL team, and that he will move the team away from them if they ever complain.
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Ralph will spend the money when it is a good investment. Example, Jim Kelly looks like he could lead Buffalo to the playoffs O.J. needs help on the offensive line to gain more yards/sell more tickets. He is not cheap. He just does not have the passion to remain competetive every season. If Ralph see the chance to make even more money he will invest. correct thats why he signed TO last year
PS 56 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I would guess that the majority of posters on this board are under 50 years of age and quite a few became Bill's fans during the late 80's and 90's. I was following and rooting for this team since their inception and I can tell you that Ralph Wilson has always been a cheapskate and the "glory years" were simply due to Polian. In the 70's, for Pete's sake he made Harvey Johnson the head coach twice! Wilson has a track record that proves what type of commitment he has... which is dedicated to the bottom line. I will always support the Bills and this team absolutely stinks but there have been worse periods like the 70's. You should have heard the fans then. They HATED Wilson. I never want to see the team leave but for those apologists of Wilson, I am afraid you are clueless. I don't disagree. What is really odd is that if Wilson sought to increase the value of the Bills (thereby putting more money in his pocket) he would have done all he could to produce a winning team. There are so many people around the country with roots back to Buffalo (like me). He could have really built his team into a major powerhouse with fans throughout the country. Instead he let it languish.
Albany,n.y. Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I'm 56. I don't defend Ralph for his moves like hiring bad coaches etc, but I do defend him on 2 things. 1) The man is not senile, he knows what he's doing. He did the same things 30 years ago. He hasn't changed much, he just walks & talks a little slower. The people who call him senile are those a lot younger than me who have never known people in their 70s, 80s & 90s. They are totally clueless when it comes to the mental capacities of senior citizens. My parents lived into their mid 80s and both were sharp right to the end, I knew them and their friends of similar age who all didn't miss a beat mentally. My 97 year old aunt is still sharp. I'll defend Ralph's sanity any time some kid with no clue disparages him. 2) While Ralph has shown to be cheap over the years, he has also spent when he has had to. The ridiculous statements that there's no way Ralph will pay for the top pick are just dead wrong. When Ralph has been put in the position where he believes the team has no QB & the opportunity arises, he spends $ on QBs. You can't say Ralph cheaped out with the contracts given to Kelly, Johnson, Flutie, and Bledsoe. A good example of the Ralph is cheap people going too far was this preseason when they came to the erroneous conclusion that because Fitzpatrick made the most money among the QBs that he was going to be cut. Their conclusion was based strictly on his salary & their perceived opinion of Ralph pinching every penny & they were dead wrong.
MarkyMannn Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I'm 56. I don't defend Ralph for his moves like hiring bad coaches etc, but I do defend him on 2 things. 1) The man is not senile, he knows what he's doing. He did the same things 30 years ago. He hasn't changed much, he just walks & talks a little slower. The people who call him senile are those a lot younger than me who have never known people in their 70s, 80s & 90s. They are totally clueless when it comes to the mental capacities of senior citizens. My parents lived into their mid 80s and both were sharp right to the end, I knew them and their friends of similar age who all didn't miss a beat mentally. My 97 year old aunt is still sharp. I'll defend Ralph's sanity any time some kid with no clue disparages him. My father-in-law is 85. He wants Flutie back in
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I've said it before - I started watching football in the late 80s and early 90s (about when I was 10), so I'm pretty sure I'm biased. I've also dealt with the decision-makers in the franchise (including Wilson and Littman) for the past 5 years, so I know them in a little different light than the average fan. WTF is Littman's role? Bean-counter extraordinaire?
NaPolian8693 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) He is clearly senile, do you ever listen to him talk? He can barely get out complete sentences. He's over 90 years old. Before you dismiss me as some rude punk, I used to work at a retirement home and I have a huge family and know lots of old people. I still think we should respect and honor our elders, but Ralph should really just step down and relax for what little time he has left. People in their 90s are not even able to survive on their own. He simply can not even live on his own without assistance anymore, and likely requires assistance to use the bathroom. That is not the kind of sharp, dynamic leader that can turn this thing around. Edited October 5, 2010 by NaPolian8693
gobillsinytown Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Teams that are as bad as the Bills (2010): Detroit 0-4 Carolina 0-4 San Francisco 0-4 Are their owners cheapskates? I'm not going to defend Ralph's track record this decade because it would be stupid to do so. But until someone can definitively show that spending lavishly equals success, I don't buy the assertion that Ralph is cheap. What about the 90's? The Bills had one of the most successful teams in history during that period. Was Ralph cheap then? My criticism of Ralph is that he is loyal to a fault. I believe that there are people in the organization, either in Buffalo or in Detroit, that Ralph has decided are critical to his organization, regardless of their performance. This is the result of his tendency to do what makes him comfortable, even if he as misgivings about his decisions. Ralph seems to follow that instinct even when it's clear that a shakeup is needed. However, one thing I am sure of is that there is no "Buffalo Bills" without him. There have been plenty of opportunities for this team to relocate elsewhere for a lot more money over the past two decades. This is the fallacy of the argument that Ralph is only interested in money. If that were the case, he would have moved his team out of the economically depressed Western New York area a long time ago. So loyalty is a double edged sword for Bills' fans. It's the reason Buffalo still has a team, but it's also partly why the team has been so bad recently. Bills' fans are loyal and passionate about their team, but at least some of them also seem to have very short memories. That being said, in the NFL it's all about winning. The team isn't winning, so that's all that really matters, at least for now. However, I think there is going to be a time when Bills' fans will have a lot more to worry about than whether the team is winning, and that will be when Ralph dies. The team has an asset value of around 800 million, and the people interested in buying the team will not be loyal to Western New York, or the fans. They will see the amount of debt that they just went into to buy the team, look at the revenue potential of the team in Buffalo versus other areas of the country..........and promptly move them. I hope this doesn't happen, but if it does, I will not follow them. The initial concept of this league was that it could succeed anywhere (see Green Bay) if it was a true collaboration. Up until now, that concept has pretty much held up, and that has made the NFL the dominant sport in America. Unfortunatley, I think the "new guard" is going to destroy this concept for their own greed. You may not like Ralph now, but you'd better hope Kelly and his group really have the money they say they have, or you can say goodbye to the team.
Another Point of View Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 correct thats why he signed TO last year He had an empty stadium, he will attempt to sell a few more tickets but he didn't see a playoff birth.........
Mark Long Beach Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Teams that are as bad as the Bills (2010): Detroit 0-4 Carolina 0-4 San Francisco 0-4 Are their owners cheapskates? I'm not going to defend Ralph's track record this decade because it would be stupid to do so. But until someone can definitively show that spending lavishly equals success, I don't buy the assertion that Ralph is cheap. What about the 90's? The Bills had one of the most successful teams in history during that period. Was Ralph cheap then? My criticism of Ralph is that he is loyal to a fault. I believe that there are people in the organization, either in Buffalo or in Detroit, that Ralph has decided are critical to his organization, regardless of their performance. This is the result of his tendency to do what makes him comfortable, even if he as misgivings about his decisions. Ralph seems to follow that instinct even when it's clear that a shakeup is needed. However, one thing I am sure of is that there is no "Buffalo Bills" without him. There have been plenty of opportunities for this team to relocate elsewhere for a lot more money over the past two decades. This is the fallacy of the argument that Ralph is only interested in money. If that were the case, he would have moved his team out of the economically depressed Western New York area a long time ago. So loyalty is a double edged sword for Bills' fans. It's the reason Buffalo still has a team, but it's also partly why the team has been so bad recently. Bills' fans are loyal and passionate about their team, but at least some of them also seem to have very short memories. That being said, in the NFL it's all about winning. The team isn't winning, so that's all that really matters, at least for now. However, I think there is going to be a time when Bills' fans will have a lot more to worry about than whether the team is winning, and that will be when Ralph dies. The team has an asset value of around 800 million, and the people interested in buying the team will not be loyal to Western New York, or the fans. They will see the amount of debt that they just went into to buy the team, look at the revenue potential of the team in Buffalo versus other areas of the country..........and promptly move them. I hope this doesn't happen, but if it does, I will not follow them. The initial concept of this league was that it could succeed anywhere (see Green Bay) if it was a true collaboration. Up until now, that concept has pretty much held up, and that has made the NFL the dominant sport in America. Unfortunatley, I think the "new guard" is going to destroy this concept for their own greed. You may not like Ralph now, but you'd better hope Kelly and his group really have the money they say they have, or you can say goodbye to the team. Spectacular post. Very well said. I also fear for the new guard, although the old guard had it's share of bad apples who were out only for themselves. *cough* Al Davis *cough*! Hopefully we can survive the next batch. Although the level of greed that seems to permeate the NFL these days is pretty staggering.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 The people defending Ralph Wilson are probably the same people who like the Kelsay re-signing.
Another Point of View Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I'm 56. I don't defend Ralph for his moves like hiring bad coaches etc, but I do defend him on 2 things. 1) The man is not senile, he knows what he's doing. He did the same things 30 years ago. He hasn't changed much, he just walks & talks a little slower. The people who call him senile are those a lot younger than me who have never known people in their 70s, 80s & 90s. They are totally clueless when it comes to the mental capacities of senior citizens. My parents lived into their mid 80s and both were sharp right to the end, I knew them and their friends of similar age who all didn't miss a beat mentally. My 97 year old aunt is still sharp. I'll defend Ralph's sanity any time some kid with no clue disparages him. 2) While Ralph has shown to be cheap over the years, he has also spent when he has had to. The ridiculous statements that there's no way Ralph will pay for the top pick are just dead wrong. When Ralph has been put in the position where he believes the team has no QB & the opportunity arises, he spends $ on QBs. You can't say Ralph cheaped out with the contracts given to Kelly, Johnson, Flutie, and Bledsoe. A good example of the Ralph is cheap people going too far was this preseason when they came to the erroneous conclusion that because Fitzpatrick made the most money among the QBs that he was going to be cut. Their conclusion was based strictly on his salary & their perceived opinion of Ralph pinching every penny & they were dead wrong. I am 56 also, I walk funny,I can't see, I fall asleep while standing, I sleep during the football games and that is why I am happy!
nucci Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 He is clearly senile, do you ever listen to him talk? He can barely get out complete sentences. He's over 90 years old. Before you dismiss me as some rude punk, I used to work at a retirement home and I have a huge family and know lots of old people. I still think we should respect and honor our elders, but Ralph should really just step down and relax for what little time he has left. People in their 90s are not even able to survive on their own. He simply can not even live on his own without assistance anymore, and likely requires assistance to use the bathroom. That is not the kind of sharp, dynamic leader that can turn this thing around. Good points which means he is probably not even making any decisions anymore regarding the team. I'm guessing Littman is running the show from Detroit and whispering in Ralph's ear. Ralph probably thinks things are great.
Chandler#81 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Ralph is old school, but I don't think he's senile. He amassed the finest talent in pro football by the mid '60's -yes, I'm sure we would have beaten the Browns had the Super Bowl started 3 years earlier. He's been in business longer than anyone here, having lived through some of the most dramatic changes in business history. Back then, nearly every player had a summer job -as the pay scale was very low. Namath's incredible $400k contract set the sports world on it's ear. Ralph -and his ilk- had neve seen or comprehended anything like it. Of course he became very judicious. Still, he shelled out for big time players he -personally- felt were worthy. Kelly's $8mil price tag stunned WNY, but he was right again. Since then, he and the Bills have mis-fired routinely on Big Buck signees. The crap shoot that is 'player evaluation' has come up 'snake eyes' far more often that not. He's not against paying big money, he's just too loyal to his descision makers to kick them to the curb for repeated failures. Stew Barber was an OK takle whom Ralph came to love. He was GM soon after his playing career and the Bills were terrible throughout his tenure. When Ralph finally showed him the door, he turned around and put him on the WOF. I'll never undrestand that one.. I digress.. Ralph is too loyal to his top business people, who fail him -and us- routinely. IMO, that's the beginning and end of it.
Another Point of View Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) Let me give you my opinion here, the last time I saw him he did not look well. He took a fall in his house in Detroit. He seems confused at interviews and he is now avoiding public speaking. His health is fairing but he is doing well for 91. I attended a dinner in 1974 with Ralph ,coaches and media and he was pretty much the same but he doesn't have the passion anymore. Edited October 5, 2010 by Another Point of View
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