"Firefighters" refuse to put out residents fire but stand arou

[KD in CA]

True... But the FD was right there wetting down the soil soas not to let the neighbors house catch... :wallbash:

 

Didn't seem like they were too "overburdened.'

 

Seemed like they had a "score to settle."

 

Like Lori posted the quote... Its irresponsible from the people who want to lead.

 

I guess the son went to the station and punched the Chief out... He is now charged with assualt, I guess rightly so. Anyway, supposedly the guys grandson was burning the trash... :wallbash:

 

I really want to know if the family paid in years past??? Did they really forget. Maybe when the FD came door to door to put the squeeze on, they didn't have the cash and really just let it slip. Who knows??

 

Firefighters "checking lists on who paid." "Get in the truck and go." Priceless responses!

 

I'm not saying the guys couldn't have helped him out when they got there, but you can't blame them for not wanting to set that precedent.

 

Now of course we're getting the typical overreaction to a one time event. I'm just waiting for Obama to have everyone over for a beer and then announce his new $10 billion "American Firefighter Renewal Act".

 

The article I read said the firehouse follows up the annual mailing with phone calls to people who don't respond so they can be sure things didn't just slip through the cracks. And I don't want to hear that someone living in a house couldn't 'afford' $75. If you can't afford that, you are living in a rusted out van.

[rockpile]

People need to understand that actions (and the failure to act) have consequences. Don't pay the fee...take your chances. The FD was just following city orders. If they did not like the policy, vote to change it. Otherwise, it is in your best interests to pay the (reasonable $75 annual) fee for fire protection. Don't whine about it now....next time you'll pay the fee.

 

I have mixed feelings about this debate because good arguments can be made both ways.

 

That said, our volunteer FD is funded by taxes, but I always contribute to their additional fund drives. I get a personal pleasure out of shaking a volunteer's hand and contributing to their cause.

[stevestojan]

!@#$ing liberals. Everyone is owed everything. He chose not to pay.

 

That said, this isn't the same as "I don't pay for my garbage pickup so they won't empty my trash". They should have put the f'in fire out... come on. But afterwards, they should have sent him to court for all of the expenses it cost to do so, since he chose not to pay his "deductible" if you will.

 

Edit: "premium" would be a better word than "deductible" here.

Edited October 7, 2010 by stevestojan

[Lori]

It should be mandatory in whatever he pays via taxes. He probably paid something in taxes, just not the "added protection." ?? If nobody pays, then they make it mandatory or a lien is slapped on the house or whatever... People still pay their taxes all the time. I am surprised the insurance company didn't make it mandatory. They gotta be fuming.

As previously explained in the stories I posted, that would be zero. No Obion County taxes go to fire protection, and he did not live in the municipality he called to come put the fire out.

[boyst]

Chiming in to say my opinion, of course no one cares.

 

The guy did not for the services of the local fire department to cover his house, therefore, he should not receive protection. However, because the fire started off of the house the fire department is responsible for that fire in about any case I can think of unless it is in a village charter. I cannot imagine there being the option to purchase on the spot protection, but perhaps this issue relates to insurance coverages of the firefighters. That would be entirely too connvenient.

 

The family will sue the fire department and win millions. That's the pussification of america. You make a choice, deal with it. Life is a choice.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Chiming in to say my opinion, of course no one cares.

 

The guy did not for the services of the local fire department to cover his house, therefore, he should not receive protection. However, because the fire started off of the house the fire department is responsible for that fire in about any case I can think of unless it is in a village charter. I cannot imagine there being the option to purchase on the spot protection, but perhaps this issue relates to insurance coverages of the firefighters. That would be entirely too connvenient.

 

The family will sue the fire department and win millions. That's the pussification of america. You make a choice, deal with it. Life is a choice.

 

There in lies our societal problem... Douchebag employers and insurance companies.

 

My wife works at a library... You know what one of the employees said for not helping an old resident out to her car with her books: "I might slip and fall, maybe break my glasses."

 

:wallbash:

 

Come on you do the right thing.. And your employer and insurance company SHOULD stand by you! Help the old lady with the oxygen tank to her vehicle!

 

There has been occasions that I have given boaters some free gas to get their boats started and be able to head back to port... People don't seem to be abusing that... Actually they listen better and seem to get the lesson much better when you see them again: "1/3 out, 1/3 back, and 1/3 in reserve." If I was a dick like this FD department was... You know the "lessons" would fall on deaf ears.

 

IMO, that homeowner is more entrenched in his past actions and beliefs (not paying) than anything the FD "was supposed to teach him." He does have dead pets. Could that have been humans? I surely think so with this FD. Same with others. Sadly, this will have the opposite effect because the FD and especially City Hall were such dicks. Look at Lori's link... They are/may be changing the way they charge. City Hall and the FD know they screwed up. Not that I support the cold-cocking of the fire chief... But maybe some common decency was knocked into him... I can just imagine the mail they are getting.

 

Remember the old saying:

 

"You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."

Edited October 7, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois

[Just Jack]

Woman doesn't blame firefighters who let home burn

 

AP - SOUTH FULTON, Tenn. — A Tennessee woman said Wednesday she doesn't blame the firefighters who watched while her house burned to the ground after her family failed to pay a $75 annual protection fee.

 

Paulette Cranick said the firefighters who came to the scene were just following orders. Her family had paid the fee in the past but simply forgot it recently. Cranick, 67, said she's just thankful no one was hurt in the fire last week that destroyed the doublewide trailer in rural northwest Tennessee.

 

"You can't blame them if they have to do what the boss says to do," Cranick told The Associated Press. "I've had firemen call and apologize."

Edited October 7, 2010 by Just Jack

[ExiledInIllinois]

Woman doesn't blame firefighters who let home burn

 

AP - SOUTH FULTON, Tenn. — A Tennessee woman said Wednesday she doesn't blame the firefighters who watched while her house burned to the ground after her family failed to pay a $75 annual protection fee.

 

Paulette Cranick said the firefighters who came to the scene were just following orders. Her family had paid the fee in the past but simply forgot it recently. Cranick, 67, said she's just thankful no one was hurt in the fire last week that destroyed the doublewide trailer in rural northwest Tennessee.

 

"You can't blame them if they have to do what the boss says to do," Cranick told The Associated Press. "I've had firemen call and apologize."

 

I guess there you have it. Good for her for diffusing the situation... I tend to disagree. I would still have a hard time following a morally corrupt order/law.

 

I heard that they lost a few pets in the situation... Not that it really matters over human life... But still.

[NoSaint]

I guess there you have it. Good for her for diffusing the situation... I tend to disagree. I would still have a hard time following a morally corrupt order/law.

 

I heard that they lost a few pets in the situation... Not that it really matters over human life... But still.

 

I don't see how we can put the pets on the FD 100% either.... Between the time he called and the FD arrived he had no opportunity to help? Some of the posts here imply the fire wasn't even to the house when they arrived, but this idea implies that the house was engulfed by the time he was calling. Its so hard to get a good read on the facts with reporters trying to frame the narrative to fit their own agenda.... Should they have rushed into a dangerous situation to save a pet? I really have no idea how dangerous this fire was though.....

 

Ive also been told that the Fd insurance wouldn't have covered the men if they disobeyed there chief.... I'm sorry but walking a lady to her car and running into a burning building are way different. Heaven forbid they run in to save a dog and something happens and one is badly hurt or dies leaving his family SOL for this guys dog. I love my pets to death, but there is a line.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I don't see how we can put the pets on the FD 100% either.... Between the time he called and the FD arrived he had no opportunity to help? Some of the posts here imply the fire wasn't even to the house when they arrived, but this idea implies that the house was engulfed by the time he was calling. Its so hard to get a good read on the facts with reporters trying to frame the narrative to fit their own agenda.... Should they have rushed into a dangerous situation to save a pet? I really have no idea how dangerous this fire was though.....

 

Ive also been told that the Fd insurance wouldn't have covered the men if they disobeyed there chief.... I'm sorry but walking a lady to her car and running into a burning building are way different. Heaven forbid they run in to save a dog and something happens and one is badly hurt or dies leaving his family SOL for this guys dog. I love my pets to death, but there is a line.

 

I can see them forgoing saving the pets... But defy the order and put the hose on the house. That is just me. Morally right thing to do.

[The Avenger]

In this case, at the town line. There's only so much gov't service you can provide for rural populations. That's why those folks tend to be pretty self sufficient.

 

 

Not buying the town line argument - do EMS services stop at the town line? I don't see how this is much different - it is a public safety issue and falls within the common good of the municipality. Yeah, they may be rural, but obviously not rural enough to not make any fire service impractical - the neighbors were overed (if you have a cabin way out in the wilds of Montana or Alaska I can see your point).

 

The problem is that nobody wants to do what should be done and actually tax people to provide this type of service. I can bet some tax cutting politicians cut the service so that each person in town could save $23 a year and anybody who thought about doing the right thing and taxing for it would have been blasted as some evil monster who wanted to raise your taxes. This is what happens when you let politics dictate public safety policy and have people who believe the only benefits government should provide are those they directly use, common good be damned.

[Chef Jim]

There in lies our societal problem... Douchebag employers and insurance companies.

 

My wife works at a library... You know what one of the employees said for not helping an old resident out to her car with her books: "I might slip and fall, maybe break my glasses."

 

:wallbash:

 

Come on you do the right thing.. And your employer and insurance company SHOULD stand by you! Help the old lady with the oxygen tank to her vehicle!

 

 

You can blame the douche bag lawyers for this not corporations and insurance companies. The fact that there are insurance companies is the reason lawyers have gotten so damn rich sueing people.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You can blame the douche bag lawyers for this not corporations and insurance companies. The fact that there are insurance companies is the reason lawyers have gotten so damn rich sueing people.

 

Point taken and noted... It takes two to tango.

[Lori]

Not buying the town line argument - do EMS services stop at the town line? I don't see how this is much different - it is a public safety issue and falls within the common good of the municipality. Yeah, they may be rural, but obviously not rural enough to not make any fire service impractical - the neighbors were covered (if you have a cabin way out in the wilds of Montana or Alaska I can see your point).

 

The problem is that nobody wants to do what should be done and actually tax people to provide this type of service. I can bet some tax cutting politicians cut the service so that each person in town could save $23 a year and anybody who thought about doing the right thing and taxing for it would have been blasted as some evil monster who wanted to raise your taxes. This is what happens when you let politics dictate public safety policy and have people who believe the only benefits government should provide are those they directly use, common good be damned.

South Fulton, TN doesn't have its own EMS. Looks like the hospital in Union City, 20 miles away, has the only ambulance service in the entire county. Closest one appears to be across the state line, Twin Cities in Fulton, KY, which is the one that responded to the fire hall when Cranick's son assaulted the chief. And from what I've read, nobody cut fire service to outlying areas -- it was never there to begin with.

 

For reference, this is the "street" address: http://www.411.com/maps/directions?lower=5&search_id=40071371122758141100

[NoSaint]

Not buying the town line argument - do EMS services stop at the town line? I don't see how this is much different - it is a public safety issue and falls within the common good of the municipality. Yeah, they may be rural, but obviously not rural enough to not make any fire service impractical - the neighbors were overed (if you have a cabin way out in the wilds of Montana or Alaska I can see your point).

 

The problem is that nobody wants to do what should be done and actually tax people to provide this type of service. I can bet some tax cutting politicians cut the service so that each person in town could save $23 a year and anybody who thought about doing the right thing and taxing for it would have been blasted as some evil monster who wanted to raise your taxes. This is what happens when you let politics dictate public safety policy and have people who believe the only benefits government should provide are those they directly use, common good be damned.

 

EMS qualifies as life or death services, the department said if lives were on the line they would have gone in. As a property damage issue, it is very different then EMS services.

[ExiledInIllinois]

EMS qualifies as life or death services, the department said if lives were on the line they would have gone in. As a property damage issue, it is very different then EMS services.

 

Put down the entrenching tool!

 

I am not saying even go in! Okay maybe ONLY for people trapped... But come on... The guy was fighting his own fire with garden hoses and the firefighters were wetting the soil so the neighbors house doesn't go up. Is that stupid or what! Just direct the hoses toward the ACTUAL FIRE... Not the cryin' out loud soil.

 

What a pimp move. How hard is it to aim a fire hose. Anything would have helped over a garden hose! Sure, they could have played it safe and not cut holes in the roof or what not.

 

Kinda like sitting in the Ralph parking lot with a set of jumper cables and watching another call for a tow while they are blocking the whole number 1 lot from exiting. Just give them the jump and help them out!

 

Turn the hose on the actual fire... Not the soil you dumbasses! Seems counterproductive doesn't it? And to boot they have paid in the past!

 

The the chief says: "We gotta follow the law." Well where do they start defying dumbass laws?" For the sake our sanity... I will stop short of any historical references!

 

The Chief had something coming, not sure if that dumbass should have been assualted... But, lets be real here.

 

This is a social outrage.

Edited October 7, 2010 by ExiledInIllinois

[The Avenger]

EMS qualifies as life or death services, the department said if lives were on the line they would have gone in. As a property damage issue, it is very different then EMS services.

 

I'd like to see them explain that if they let a fire go and outside of their judgement it did spread to other properties and/or create a risk to lives. Fire is not something you mess around with - it IS a public safety issue. If it's big enough to burn down a house it's certainly big enough to hurt someone, even if you don't think it will. Simply put, it's a stupid idea to let it burn if you can put it out.

[NoSaint]

I'd like to see them explain that if they let a fire go and outside of their judgement it did spread to other properties and/or create a risk to lives. Fire is not something you mess around with - it IS a public safety issue. If it's big enough to burn down a house it's certainly big enough to hurt someone, even if you don't think it will. Simply put, it's a stupid idea to let it burn if you can put it out.

 

 

I'm sure if houses were within a couple feet they would treat the situation differently then if it was a quarter mile down the road. From what ive gathered - if they deem it dangerous they intervine, if it's property damage they let it go. Clearly neither of us know the neighborhood, weather conditions, etc... I'm neither arguing right or wrong sitting on the Tennessee road that day, I'm saying that I view ems services different then property damage.

[KD in CA]

I'm sure if houses were within a couple feet they would treat the situation differently then if it was a quarter mile down the road. From what ive gathered - if they deem it dangerous they intervine, if it's property damage they let it go. Clearly neither of us know the neighborhood, weather conditions, etc... I'm neither arguing right or wrong sitting on the Tennessee road that day, I'm saying that I view ems services different then property damage.

 

Exactly. A fire in a town is a public saftey issue because it can spread from building to building and burn down the whole town. One house out in the sticks is not in any way a public saftey issue.

 

I'd also like to know just how far out of town they are supposed to travel to put out fires for people that don't contribute to the town's tax base. And what happens if a fire occurrs in town while they are fighting that fire 10 miles away?

[NoSaint]

Put down the entrenching tool!

 

I am not saying even go in! Okay maybe ONLY for people trapped... But come on... The guy was fighting his own fire with garden hoses and the firefighters were wetting the soil so the neighbors house doesn't go up. Is that stupid or what! Just direct the hoses toward the ACTUAL FIRE... Not the cryin' out loud soil.

 

What a pimp move. How hard is it to aim a fire hose. Anything would have helped over a garden hose! Sure, they could have played it safe and not cut holes in the roof or what not.

 

Kinda like sitting in the Ralph parking lot with a set of jumper cables and watching another call for a tow while they are blocking the whole number 1 lot from exiting. Just give them the jump and help them out!

 

Turn the hose on the actual fire... Not the soil you dumbasses! Seems counterproductive doesn't it? And to boot they have paid in the past!

 

The the chief says: "We gotta follow the law." Well where do they start defying dumbass laws?" For the sake our sanity... I will stop short of any historical references!

 

The Chief had something coming, not sure if that dumbass should have been assualted... But, lets be real here.

 

This is a social outrage.

 

No need to rage againt me, I agree more could be done - and that its silly how it played out on both sides. I was simply discussing the idea that saving a life and saving some wood and nails, as much as they might mean to the owner is NEVER the same thing. This man will live to rebuild, and for that reason I don't agree that fire service 100% equates to EMS life saving services. I'm still curious the insurance and liability issues but it seems its down to just a couple of us talking and none of us have that answer. Regardless some waivers would likely remedy this if they wanted to arrange that upon arrival. I just don't think it's quite as simple as its been framed, and I hope theres more to the decision then spitefulness over the $75. If thats all it is, its disgusting but I suspect some sort of underlying issues that none of us have the background in fire fighting, area politics/laws, etc... To fully grasp. Similarly if one of these firefighters somehow lost there lies in a freak accident and his family wasn't cared for because of laws or policies in place I would also be disgusted.