Don't Draft a QB!!!

[BringBackFergy]

Stop throwing around this "throw $30 million at a young qb" garbage. ANY player you draft in your draft slot is going to make roughly the same amount of money. You draft a QB #1, you are going to pay him a truckload of money. You draft a OL #1, you are going to pay him a truckload of money. Everything gets slotted in. You draft Aaron Maybin or you draft Clay Matthews, you are going to pay them the same amount. Throwing that dollar figure around as a reason NOT to try to draft a franchise quarterback is just irrelevant.

 

Further, listing off the well-known quarterback draft busts does nothing to argue against the merits of selecting a quarterback with the Bills first round draft pick. For every Akili Smith there is a Mike Williams. Quarterbacks bust, linemen bust, safeties bust, corners bust. Every high draft choice carries with it an inherent chance to be a poor selection. Not picking a quarterback doesn't make you immune to selecting poorly.

 

The other argument against drafting a quarterback #1 is that the Bills have so many holes to fill. They sure do. We need offensive linemen that can play, defensive linemen that can play, linebackers that can play, receivers that can play, and the list goes on and on. We have a million holes. But, please don't forget that your quarterback is the most important position on the team. The most important position on any team in any sport out there. The face of your franchise. Don't over-think it. Fill the most important hole first, and be unafraid of selecting poorly. You can't just put off the selection for a few years because you are scared of missing.

 

 

 

How is this even close to where the two camps stand? I have to trade drafting a quarterback for drafting 4 linemen? What?

 

The two camps are:

1. Draft a potential franchise quarterback, fully accepting the risks inherent to drafting a quarterback #1.

 

2. Draft a potential franchise left tackle, fully accepting the risks inherent to drafting an offensive lineman #1.

 

WTF is this 1 QB = 4 "corn-fed" behemoths exchange rate?

 

 

I'll say it again: I have no objection to taking a stud QB if available and meets the criteria for "franchise" QB (however that is defined)....if any of these Sr/Jr QB's coming into the draft rise to that level, they may draft him. But we just invested in a RB that runs a 4.3 and the kid wants to turn on the afterburners if there was a hole up the middle...that ain't happening right now. On the other hand, we could invest in a franchise QB next year and watch him hand the ball off to the same 4.3 RB with the same result.

 

I want to thank you for lecturing me on what is and is not important on a team. May I reciprocate?? Remember that the team is only as good as the sum of its parts and no one position is more important than the other. You may believe the QB is the most important position from an elementary standpoint, but to say in a conclusory fashion that the QB can run the whole show despite what his O Line, WR's or defense looks like is wrong. My only point (which I understand you disagree with) is if the "franchise QB" is not on the board, build/rebuild another part of the offense...

 

That's my $30 million opinion...(had to get that in there again because I know it pisses you off)

[SuperKillerRobots]

Evans will not get a 2nd round pick. And also our defense has allowed 125 points in 4 games.

 

Thats over 30 A GAME.

 

We need a real 3-4 OLB, not a converted 4-3 DE. This is as big a need on this team as QB, LT, RT, C, NT, ILB and WR. this team has maybe 10 players worth a damn. But the 3-4 is built on pressure on the QB, and we have none.

 

I really want the team to draft Luck - I think he's going to be a good one. I have been thinking about the basic question of whether we need a QB or OLB more. If you look at any good 3-4 team, their OLBs (at least one) can play in all situations. He can seal the edge against the run msot of the time, drop back and cover a TE in enough situations to make him effective, and he can rush the passer to an acceptable point.

 

If there were two guys available at 1 (assuming we get that pick) one the stud QB, the other the stud OLB, I don't know who I'd take. The QB would obviously be a good call, but the OLB might be the lynchpin in the defense. One guy who can do all that from one spot would be a hell of an upgrade.

[akm0404]

Remember that the team is only as good as the sum of its parts and no one position is more important than the other.

 

We disagree on this point. I don't remember that, and instead assert that the quarterback is a more important position than the others. By far. By really, really, really far. When your best player is your quarterback, you compete every single year for a championship. When it isn't, you hope to get lucky.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Some fans don't seem to truly appreciate just how bad the Bills OL really is. Hell, some fans were touting Jamon Meredith as our next franchise LT.

[Dante]

We disagree on this point. I don't remember that, and instead assert that the quarterback is a more important position than the others. By far. By really, really, really far. When your best player is your quarterback, you compete every single year for a championship. When it isn't, you hope to get lucky.

This is misleading. Of course the qb is more important than any ONE player. Is he more important than the entire offensive line? Thats what we're really talking about here. We need the entire unit overhauled. Problem is this takes more time and patience and is not as satisfying and sexy as going out and drafting a hot shot college qb. I'm tired of watching our rbs having to make 3 moves before they even get too the line of scrimmage. Our backs don't know what its like to have a opening in front of them that they can work with. We really may never know how good Spillar and Lynch could be. Unless they get traded too a team that actually has a line. Once we have a running game that commands respect, someone like Fitz will do until we can draft a good prospect qb. Of course this is all imho.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Dante

[akm0404]

This is misleading. Of course the qb is more important than any ONE player. Is he more important than the entire offensive line? Thats what we're really talking about here.

 

This is absolutely not what we are talking about here. We don't get to exchange ONE DRAFT PICK, let's assume it is the #1 pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, for MULTIPLE offensive linemen.

 

It is either draft a quarterback, or draft a SINGLE offensive lineman.

 

One franchise-level quarterback makes your whole team relevant and a playoff contender for a decade. What does ONE offensive lineman do? Help the line a bit.

 

Cmon, man.

[Thurman#1]

Agreed. The way I see it is there are two camps as it relates to next year's season: Those who want the excitement of a young, highly touted QB wearing a Bills uniform and those who would rather see four big, cornfed lineman protecting the pocket next year (with a mediocre QB).

 

As you know, I fall into the latter category but can't help getting excited for a young QB with mental and physical toughness, an arm, and the intelligence to learn the offense quickly with the hope that he too (a la Kelly and Manning) could call his own plays at the line of scrim.

 

But with Spiller, and a not so exciting draft of senior/junior QB's, I am equally excited about finding two monstrous offensive linemen and another via FA to open holes for Spiller next year. These college guards and tackles from the SEC and PAC see alot of different blitz packages, alot of stunts and are bright guys. The college level defensive schemes are probably as advanced and technical as the NFL in this day and age. If Buffalo gets two of the top four linemen in the draft, they are well on their way to opening holes for Spiller; the QB (whoever the "franchise" QB is that we are waiting for this coming year or the next)will have a smile on his face when he arrives in camp and sees the fortress in front of him.

 

To do otherwise and throw $30 million at a young QB this coming year is to perpetuate the very problem we are facing right now as fans.

 

 

The problem is that when and if you get a very good OL, your team gets good enough to run off maybe 8 - 8 seasons even with a bad QB. Not nearly good enough to win a Super Bowl or even get close, but plenty good enough to pretty much rule out getting a franchise QB except in the luckiest of situations, like if a Favre falls into your lap.

 

By the way, how good did Minnesota look with Tarvaris Jackson behind an excellent OL? If Favre hadn't been looking for revenge on GB, they'd still be running off 8 - 8 seasons.

 

Remember that the team is only as good as the sum of its parts and no one position is more important than the other.

 

 

 

Are you kidding? If you aren't, you are seriously lacking in understanding. The QB is only as important as the strong safety? As the LG? As the TE? Seriously?

 

Qb is the most important position on any football team, by far, and it's not even close. And the two next most important positions, LT and RDE in a 4 - 3 defense or ROLB in a 3 - 4 defense are so important exactly because they are for attacking and protecting the QB. Doubt it? Check the salaries at each positions. In capitalist societies, it's not difficult to tell which jobs are the most important. They have the highest salaries. And QBs are the bond traders of the world, and RGs, TEs and SSs, among others, are the janitors. Not that janitors aren't crucial to the workings of schools and society. They are. But they're not that difficult to replace at a competent level. QBs are.

 

Some fans don't seem to truly appreciate just how bad the Bills OL really is. Hell, some fans were touting Jamon Meredith as our next franchise LT.

 

 

 

Yup. It's really really bad. Which is why if there's a franchise QB out there, the best idea would be to pull an Atlanta and go QB LT, Matty Ryan followed by Sam Baker to keep Ryan horizontal. But NOT the other way around, not if there's a franchise QB out there.

[akm0404]

Yeah this debate is about dead. Drafting a QB is the only sane strategy.

[Dante]

This is absolutely not what we are talking about here. We don't get to exchange ONE DRAFT PICK, let's assume it is the #1 pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, for MULTIPLE offensive linemen.

 

It is either draft a quarterback, or draft a SINGLE offensive lineman.

 

One franchise-level quarterback makes your whole team relevant and a playoff contender for a decade. What does ONE offensive lineman do? Help the line a bit.

 

Cmon, man.

What if we trade down and acquire two good lineman? With the trading of Lynch maybe that frees up some cash to get free agent linemen. How much is a 1st round qb, possibly 1st overall pick going to cost Ralph? Believe me, when he lays out that kinda cash he isn't signing quality FA linemen. He will get what he wants. People to buy season tickets to see the 1st round qb. But in the end the result will be the same. Mediocrity, at best

Edited October 5, 2010 by Dante

[akm0404]

What if we trade down and acquire two good lineman? With the trading of Lynch maybe that frees up some cash to get free agent linemen. How much is a 1st round qb, possibly 1st overall pick going to cost Ralph? Believe me, when he lays out that kinda cash he isn't signing quality FA linemen. He will get what he wants. People to buy season tickets to see the 1st round qb. But in the end the result will be the same. Mediocrity, at best

 

Trading out of the #1 spot in the NFL draft is nearly impossible. But even so, 1 Peyton Manning is worth 2 Jake Longs, and it isn't even close.

 

Your question about money is a common mistake people make when evaluating whether the Bills should draft a quarterback #1 or not.

 

Did you know that the #1 pick in the draft is going to make a truckload of money, whether it is a quarterback or a tackle? He will pay the same either way, so that argument is invalid.

 

I hope what he wants is to draft a quarterback #1, not so he can sell tickets, but because an elite-level franchise quarterback turns your team from a laughingstock into a contender for a decade.

 

Interestingly, that also sells tickets. Want to know why drafting a quarterback #1 sells tickets? Because it gives the team a CHANCE to shake off a decade of pathetic and contend with the best teams in the league.

 

Why does drafting a LT #1 not sell tickets? Because it doesn't do that whole relevance and contending for playoffs for a decade thing.

Edited October 5, 2010 by akm0404

[Orton's Arm]

Agreed. The way I see it is there are two camps as it relates to next year's season: Those who want the excitement of a young, highly touted QB wearing a Bills uniform and those who would rather see four big, cornfed lineman protecting the pocket next year (with a mediocre QB).

 

As you know, I fall into the latter category but can't help getting excited for a young QB with mental and physical toughness, an arm, and the intelligence to learn the offense quickly with the hope that he too (a la Kelly and Manning) could call his own plays at the line of scrim.

 

But with Spiller, and a not so exciting draft of senior/junior QB's, I am equally excited about finding two monstrous offensive linemen and another via FA to open holes for Spiller next year. These college guards and tackles from the SEC and PAC see alot of different blitz packages, alot of stunts and are bright guys. The college level defensive schemes are probably as advanced and technical as the NFL in this day and age. If Buffalo gets two of the top four linemen in the draft, they are well on their way to opening holes for Spiller; the QB (whoever the "franchise" QB is that we are waiting for this coming year or the next)will have a smile on his face when he arrives in camp and sees the fortress in front of him.

 

To do otherwise and throw $30 million at a young QB this coming year is to perpetuate the very problem we are facing right now as fans.

I'll respond to the bolded statement above. My draft-day philosophy is this:

 

1. List your team's needs in order, from the most difficult-to-fill position to the easiest-to-fill.

2. With your first round pick, look to see if you can fill your most difficult-to-fill position with your pick. If no players at that position are worthy of being chosen at whichever spot you're drafting, move down to your second most difficult to fill position. Repeat until you select a player worthy of being chosen in that spot.

3. Remember that building a good offensive line is a more important and more urgent task than filling your needs at most other positions.

 

Quarterback is the single most difficult to fill position on the entire team. It's also the most critical. You need look no further than the Arizona Cardinals offense for the difference a good quarterback can make! It's also worth noting that opportunities to draft a franchise quarterback are very rare. If you don't have a franchise quarterback, and an opportunity to draft one comes your way, you have to take it. There is no other choice.

 

Obviously, a quarterback can't accomplish much when he's lying on his back. The times when I've seen Peyton Manning or Tom Brady get shut down were generally due to their offensive lines getting dominated by the other team's defense. Clearly, players like Cornell Green would get dominated even by reasonably good high school defenders. If the Bills use a first round pick on a QB, they could come right back in the second round to grab a RT. There is even the possibility of grabbing an OL in the third, though a very strong argument could also be made for a linebacker at that spot.

[BigBuff423]

Truthfully, it is much more difficult to assess a QB than a lineman. Let's look at recent history: as for QBs, Bradford is only four games in but he looks like he's developing at an average rate but remember St. Louis started building the lines on both sides of the ball a few years ago, then Detroit, they drafted Stafford and can't seem to keep him healthy despite their best efforts, a few years ago when the Dolphins were at the top of the draft they took Jake Long then took Henne in the second round which looks to be developing nicely, and then when the Browns had the 3rd overall pick they didn't take a QB that they desperately needed they took Joe Thomas. It should be noted that both of the aforementioned tackles are already Pro Bowlers and while the Browns are still looking for their signal caller, they could have pulled the trigger last year and waited, for whatever reason, but you can't ignore the fact that with Thomas on the left side, they immediately got better, without too much adaptation.

There is little point drafting a great QB if you can't protect him. That's not to say that a great QB won't make a difference but the question is: are we building for the future or because we want to win now? If you want to win now, a great QB will win you a few extra games, but you'll be talent poor at the QB position in a few years and still looking for Offensive consistentcy. So, assuming the Bills have a top 5 draft pick - which I'm sure they will - i would rather see them take a top tier LT and then QB in the second round because none of these QBs so far are impressing me and the ones that could have that potential, may not even come out this year....so build the lines and LB core, get depth at the line in FA and trade Evans and continue to get FA help on the D-Line so as to make them at least competitive. My two cents...rip away!

[BringBackFergy]

Truthfully, it is much more difficult to assess a QB than a lineman. Let's look at recent history: as for QBs, Bradford is only four games in but he looks like he's developing at an average rate but remember St. Louis started building the lines on both sides of the ball a few years ago, then Detroit, they drafted Stafford and can't seem to keep him healthy despite their best efforts, a few years ago when the Dolphins were at the top of the draft they took Jake Long then took Henne in the second round which looks to be developing nicely, and then when the Browns had the 3rd overall pick they didn't take a QB that they desperately needed they took Joe Thomas. It should be noted that both of the aforementioned tackles are already Pro Bowlers and while the Browns are still looking for their signal caller, they could have pulled the trigger last year and waited, for whatever reason, but you can't ignore the fact that with Thomas on the left side, they immediately got better, without too much adaptation.

There is little point drafting a great QB if you can't protect him. That's not to say that a great QB won't make a difference but the question is: are we building for the future or because we want to win now? If you want to win now, a great QB will win you a few extra games, but you'll be talent poor at the QB position in a few years and still looking for Offensive consistentcy. So, assuming the Bills have a top 5 draft pick - which I'm sure they will - i would rather see them take a top tier LT and then QB in the second round because none of these QBs so far are impressing me and the ones that could have that potential, may not even come out this year....so build the lines and LB core, get depth at the line in FA and trade Evans and continue to get FA help on the D-Line so as to make them at least competitive. My two cents...rip away!

 

I'm with you on this logic. I know others are dead set against it, but it is a simple difference of philosophy.

[It's in My Blood]

OTOH one doesn't get the 1st pick very often. If there is a huge playmaker out there (WR, DE, QB, LB). Go ahead. It just better be worth it.

 

 

When you have the 1st pick in the draft ,you better be drafting a quarterback. Maybe defensive end or lineman , but they better be freakishly dominant and once in a decade type of player. Taking a WR or LB here is ridiculous.

[Cannon]

The biggest problem I see with this draft is that its the weakest OL class in years. Also, a deep QB class, where a decent prospect could still be had around the 3rd or 4th. We have so many needs that it would be dumb to use a #1 overall pick on an OL guy who wouldnt go til the late teens or early 20's. The problem with trying to trade the #1 pick for more picks is that no team could make a worthy offer. All front offices have some version of this chart. http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm I would like to see the Bills draft Andrew Luck with the #1 pick. But if they choose to go QB later I could possibly understand.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

No one is offering 2's for Evans or Lynch.

 

Ahyyyyup!

 

Evans may be a gem of a WR

When you put a gem in a sh**ty setting, it's hard for people to see the shine

 

He didn't help himself find a quality new home by dropping balls last Sunday.