Don't Draft a QB!!!

[akm0404]

Football is a "very" basic game. No line NO win!!! You can have god himself at quarterback and unless he uses powers that would be very unsportsmanlike he will fail just as any other awesome talent would with no protection.

 

This is not true. There are a ton of examples of great quarterbacks who succeed despite playing behind a poor offensive line. Two examples (one from this year, one from last year, so that should keep it recent enough) are Jay Cutler and the terrible Bears offensive line this year, and Aaron Rodgers having a Pro-Bowl season and leading his team to the playoffs despite playing behind a terrible offensive line last year.

 

It is a zillion million times easier to build an offensive line through free agency than it is to build your quarterback position via free agency.

 

Draft a quarterback that has a chance to play at an elite level, and prepare to be a relevant, playoff team for a decade.

 

Continue to roll out sub-standard QB play, and be the Bills.

[Thurman#1]

I agree, but the problem is there's a better change at drafting a Ryan Leaf than a Sam Bradford. The odds are in Leafs favor.

 

 

 

Yeah, but that's never going to change. Putting things off a year or two doesn't change that. It just means it'll be five years instead of three before you know what you've got.

 

You can't win a Super Bowl without a franchise QB, or the odds against it are extremely high. It happens that way once or maybe twice a decade and requires a defense that is one of the most ferocious of all time.

 

You need a franchise QB. Picking one in the first round gives you odds of success that are less than 50%. The problem is that picking one in the second gives you odds of somewhere around 20% and it just goes down from there. You maximize your chances by picking a guy early in the first.

 

You forgot something, you have to be lucky enough to draft high in the draft that a Peyton Manning,John Elway, Kelly or Marino is available

 

Sorry guys ,this class is no better then last year and none are as good as Bradford.

 

I see 3 or 4 Clausens in this draft.

 

 

 

No way to know that. What you have there is a flat-out guess.

 

Show me any famous QB and I will show you an equally infamous line that provided him with the time and opportunity to be great!!! It starts and ends in the trenches. Always has and Always will!!! Until you address this you are wasting picks on skill position players they won't survive...

 

 

Let's see, Ben Roethlisberger. How bout that terrific OL. Aaron Rodgers, he's got one of the top lines in the league.

 

Not.

 

How bout them Arizona Cardinals. Same line as last year and yet for some reason they almost seem to be a different team. Wonder why that is.

 

You need a good OL. You need a good QB more. Much more.

[please stop the pain]

I agree with addressing the O and D lines. Fitz or Brohm would probably do OK behind a strong line especially considering the running backs we will have: Jackson, Spiller and Bell to start. I'd recommend starting with their strengths; there have been many successful teams that are run-first oriented and only had middle of road talent at QB. Giants a few years ago. Strong D as well.

 

Just thinking if the plan is to re-build, which if any of the linebackers would you keep? Other than rookies who haven't had enough time to be judged I wouldn't keep any based on performance against the run this year. Can't say they have done anything to put pressure on QB either. So 4 more draft choices needed here. Hope we get plenty for first pick...

[gfalk87]

Ut, oh, BBF, you are about to get pounded on by nearly everone on this board.

 

These guys made up their minds in August, we need that franchise Quarterback and they believe the new kid will fix everything.

 

I haven't given up on Fitz, Brohm OR Brown and I am NOT buckling to pear pressure either.

 

If we draft another QB this crowd will turn on this guy after the first game.

Some day, yes SOME DAY, people will realize that without an Offensive line, NO quarterback will survive.

 

Good luck with your thread, you're going to need it!

 

 

I think you're the one that needs to open your eyes and take a look around the NFL at all the top teams. They have one thing in common, A GOOD quarterback. Yes the Bills need to improve their o-line, but simply doing that will not translate to more wins. Teams win in the NFL with average o-lines, but what sets them apart is the quarterback. I don't see how you would want to go another year with fitzpatrick who is an average back-up. They have to get one of the top qb's in the upcoming draft because I cant take another season like this. And there have been examples of rookie qb's having success in their first season (Matt Ryan).

[Ozymandius]

Put yourself in Nix/Gailey's shoes. You know you have three years, maybe four years max, to rebuild the team. Are you really going to spend two of those years without a franchise QB? The Bills are like a single woman in her 30s. You know she's going to get hitched soon, you just hope he's not a douchebag.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Ozymandius

[prissythecat]

This is not true. There are a ton of examples of great quarterbacks who succeed despite playing behind a poor offensive line. Two examples (one from this year, one from last year, so that should keep it recent enough) are Jay Cutler and the terrible Bears offensive line this year, and Aaron Rodgers having a Pro-Bowl season and leading his team to the playoffs despite playing behind a terrible offensive line last year.

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm. That analysis may be oversimplify things How well did Green Bay's line play during the first half of season vs the last half? I believe most of the 50 sacks came during the first half? And this is when Green Bay only went 4-4? Once the offensive line started playing better and actually protecting him, they went 7-1?

 

The jury is still out on this year's Chicago Bears.

[Ramius]

If you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you take one. Plain and simple. Then go to work on the lines, which gives you a season or 2 to build a good OL while the QB matures.

 

A HOF OL isn't going to make an inaccurate QB more accurate. But, a great QB will cover up the deficiencies of an average OL.

[Orton's Arm]

Man, some of ya'll really need to watch some more football.

 

It is no mystery that year after year, the teams with the elite-level NFL quarterbacks are the teams that consistently make the playoffs. Year after year after year.

 

Fact: It is very hard to land a franchise quarterback.

Fact: It is even harder to land a franchise quarterback from a source OTHER than the draft.

 

You absolutely must use any and all opportunities to draft a franchise quarterback with the hope of developing an elite-level NFL quarterback.

 

Without that, all you can hope for is a fleeting one year miracle run, while the teams with the elite quarterbacks make the playoffs every single year.

 

Is drafting a quarterback #1 a guarantee that you'll get an elite-level NFL quarterback for the next decade? Absolutely not.

 

But you DEFINITELY do not draft an elite-level NFL quarterback if you pick some fat lineman.

 

Quarterback is the single most important position in any organized team sport. They are the face of your franchise. They lend credibility and hope to a floundering organization. Hope breeds relevance which breeds respect and success.

 

Not drafting a quarterback #1 because you are scared he might be a bust is simply giving in to the hopelessness you feel about this franchise. You feel that the organization isn't capable of accurately evaluating talent and bringing in the right guy. Heck, you are probably right.

 

But you can't just ignore the most important position in sports. You can't. You can't spout this "you have to fix the offensive line or else NO quarterback can succeed!" bullcrap. Good quarterbacks do succeed behind bad offensive lines. It happens ALL OF THE TIME. The Bears went 3-0 and are now 3-1 with arguable a worse line than the Bills. The Packers had a very successful season last year with the elite-level QB play of Aaron Rodgers behind a terrible line.

 

Quarterback is more important than offensive line.

 

Your franchise's best player needs to be your quarterback, not a 300-pounder, if you want lasting success.

 

Don't fool yourself. Look at the elite teams in the NFL now and see what they have in common.

 

Please. Don't let the Bills pass on a chance at landing an elite-level NFL quarterback. Take the chance, or you have no chance.

This is an excellent summation of the importance of having a franchise QB. Unless your defense is as good as the Ravens of 2000, you're going to need very good play from your quarterback if you're going to win the Super Bowl.

 

Opportunities to obtain franchise quarterbacks are very rare; and almost always come through the draft. Very often those franchise guys are snapped up within the first five picks.

 

If you don't have a franchise quarterback, and there's an opportunity to take one, you do it. Period. I don't care if your offensive linemen consists of five Cornell Greens, with five Greg Jermans waiting in the wings as eventual successors. You have to take that franchise QB if you can.

 

But that said, I can't think of any circumstance where it would be okay to reach for need. Reaching for need is what got us Donte Whitner and John McCargo. If there isn't a franchise quarterback available when the Bills pick, they should address some other need instead.

 

I also think it's important for the Bills to build an offensive line around whichever franchise QB they take. I realize the defense is a sieve right now, and that that problem needs to be fixed. But the offensive line is a more urgent need, because we owe it to whichever guy we pick to try to keep him from getting drilled into the dirt. It's also a question of protecting our investment in him, as opposed to letting him get shell shocked. Addressing the offensive line could begin with the Bills' second round pick, which should be used on a RT if there's a worthy player there. Replacing Cornell Green with a good football player isn't enough to fully fix the line, but it sure would be a step in the right direction!

[BringBackFergy]

This is an excellent summation of the importance of having a franchise QB. Unless your defense is as good as the Ravens of 2000, you're going to need very good play from your quarterback if you're going to win the Super Bowl.

 

Opportunities to obtain franchise quarterbacks are very rare; and almost always come through the draft. Very often those franchise guys are snapped up within the first five picks.

 

If you don't have a franchise quarterback, and there's an opportunity to take one, you do it. Period. I don't care if your offensive linemen consists of five Cornell Greens, with five Greg Jermans waiting in the wings as eventual successors. You have to take that franchise QB if you can.

 

But that said, I can't think of any circumstance where it would be okay to reach for need. Reaching for need is what got us Donte Whitner and John McCargo. If there isn't a franchise quarterback available when the Bills pick, they should address some other need instead.

I also think it's important for the Bills to build an offensive line around whichever franchise QB they take. I realize the defense is a sieve right now, and that that problem needs to be fixed. But the offensive line is a more urgent need, because we owe it to whichever guy we pick to try to keep him from getting drilled into the dirt. It's also a question of protecting our investment in him, as opposed to letting him get shell shocked. Addressing the offensive line could begin with the Bills' second round pick, which should be used on a RT if there's a worthy player there. Replacing Cornell Green with a good football player isn't enough to fully fix the line, but it sure would be a step in the right direction!

[BringBackFergy]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

 

I was curious how all of the First Round quarterbacks did in the last 15 years or so. This link gives all quarterbacks taken in the draft back to 1980. Yeah, this Bills thing is bothering me so I nerded out and researched the draft.

 

The 1991 draft was interesting - Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovitch, then Brett Favre in the second round.

 

Detroit drafted Andre Ware in the first round and stuck with him for ten plus years and drafted 6 other QB's until they drafted Mark Stafford.

 

There are alot of other QB's drafted high who obviously didn't pan out for teams...as well as the obvious ones who did work out, the late round draft gems (Brady, Cassel, etc), and the first round busts (Leaf, Jamarcus, Rick Mirer, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Joey Harrington, etc)

 

I have no problem drafting a quality QB....but don't just take a QB for the heck of it because "that's what fills the seats"...the QB has to be the "right" QB and we don't know (despite what Bulldog and others might think)if that QB is in the college ranks right now (i.e. do Luck and Locker really possess the attributes which made Kelly, Marino and Elway "franchise QB's" - skill, mental and physical toughness, and leadership. I'm just saying, don't throw $30 million away on a guy who may be trade bait in three years when the "perfect QB" comes along.

[T master]

First of all, I am new to this Board. I grew up in Buffalo, attended many Bills games and have been a fan ever since the 2-14 Hank Bullough days. I do not hold myself out as an expert on football strategy, defensive schemes, offense, etc. I am just a basic fan who wants my son to experience the thrill of a successful team as I did in the 90's.

 

I took my 13 yr old to his first Bills game on Sunday and we experienced the excitement of tailgating in Lot 1 at 9am, cooking, talking with fellow fans and watching the warmups. Needless to say the final outcome was a disappointment. As we drove home (5 hours)we discussed the team and listened to WGR55. The Bulldog insisted that we draft a quarterback with the first pick and he proceeded to extoll the virtues of Luck vs Jake Locker (sp?) and why Carolina and Detroit would not draft a QB, etc.

 

I disagree with this radio personality and others who suggest drafting a quarterback is the answer with a high draft pick. My suggestion is the following:

 

1) If you love something, set it free...especially if you get something good in return. Namely, Lee Evans. Give him the benefit of a quarterback who is well protected and has other receivers so that Lee is not double covered or matched up with top DB. You will clear alot of room in salary cap and obtain (hopefully a high second round pick).

 

2) Marshawn: Trade for second round pick. Flat out. Clear salary cap room and get a second round pick.

 

3) Take your two second round picks and trade them to a team for their first round pick. Depending on the number of quality guards and tackles...take two big beefy offennsive lineman in the first round.

 

4) Take the salary money you saved with Lee and Marshawn and get a third monstrous offensive lineman in free agency.

 

5) Keep Fitzpatrick and Brohm for anaother year and they will produce if given time in the pocket. I see good things with Johnson and Nelson. Roscoe will adapt and you can always get another big receiver either in Free Agency or second round of draft (because you traded your other second round picks which were given for Evans and Lynch - still retain our original second round pick).

 

I know this is a rambling mess, but drafting a QB in the first round only to be pounded on repeatedly (like Trent was pounded in Arizona) may cause a young guy more problems. They screwed up this year's draft (I do like Spiller) when we needed to build from the bottom up...that starts with the O-line.

 

I remember going to Rich Stadium when the seats were half full...watching Vince Ferragamo and others take a stab at winning. I want to see the likes of Kent Hull, Ballard, Wolford, Ritcher, etc forming a pocket in the near future. After that is formed...pick your young quarterback and let him have some fun (instead of having to be the leading rusher on scrambles like it was yesterday).

 

Sounds like a good way to think to me !!!! You got to start at the lines all else will follow . The last time T.Edwards was half way decent was when we had one of the biggest O lines in the league . Peters,Doc,Fowler,Butler,Walker not great but a lot better than what we got now !!!

[JPS]

The problem always is value in the draft. Drafting a lineman with the no 1 or 2 pick is a huge reach most of the time. Better to trade that pick for a lower 1st and another 2nd. I agree though. None of the QB's coming out is worth betting farm with a crappy line. I think our guards will be OK, but w/o good tackles, they can't show us what they can do yet. OL is a team game. We also need a legit run-stuffing NT and about 3 new linebackers. We probably also need a real SS, sad to say. Build this like you build a house, with a good foundation.

 

OTOH one doesn't get the 1st pick very often. If there is a huge playmaker out there (WR, DE, QB, LB). Go ahead. It just better be worth it.

Did you just say draft a DB?? Jesus Christmas!!!

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

And miss out on drafting the next Ryan Lief??? Or defense is so bad I can't excuse passing up taking a great defensive plYer if he is the best. Not that I expect this team to evaluate tLent well

[JPS]

A great coach and horrible GM once commented that if you want to help your QB, give him a good defense. I agree with that. Of course, if an Elway is available, you take him. But please don't take a QB just to take one when the next Ngata, Ray Lewis or Jake Long is available.

 

I don't care what you take. Just don't miss.

[Endless Ike]

We have crippling holes in probably 15 of the 22 positions on the field. Take whatever player will have the biggest impact and fill one of those holes.

 

I don't give a **** if its a DE, DT, LB, QB, or OT. I don't think Luck or Locker are head and shoulders the best players available.

[C.Biscuit97]

Nothing else should matter for the bills right now except building a offensive line. One step at a time. the better u run the ball the better your qb and wrs will be. Then focus on d

 

You win championships with elite talents. OF course, every once in a while you get a Rypien or Dilfer, but they are very rare. The QBs who win the most are elite talents. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben play behind olines that are on par with the Bills. Yet, they are special players who can make plays on their own. Edwards played scared. And I love Fitz but he is what he is (and I'd take him as a career backup for the Bills for the rest of his career).

 

I really believe 3 guys have elite potential in this draft. We need one of them. Then, you can build around them. It starts and ends with the QB.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

The problem always is value in the draft. Drafting a lineman with the no 1 or 2 pick is a huge reach most of the time. Better to trade that pick for a lower 1st and another 2nd. I agree though. None of the QB's coming out is worth betting farm with a crappy line. I think our guards will be OK, but w/o good tackles, they can't show us what they can do yet. OL is a team game. We also need a legit run-stuffing NT and about 3 new linebackers. We probably also need a real SS, sad to say. Build this like you build a house, with a good foundation.

 

OTOH one doesn't get the 1st pick very often. If there is a huge playmaker out there (WR, DE, QB, LB). Go ahead. It just better be worth it.

 

I'm not sure picking Orlando Pace or Jake Long with the #1 overall pick was much of a reach. Ultimately, the foundation of a football team is the line of scrimmage, and thus we should just forget about drafting any LBs, WRs and even QBs. I would like to see every pick in the draft go to a linemen. As far as trading down goes, considering the dearth of talent on this team, if the Bills cannot find someone to draft in the top three, I don't imagine they will find too many teams interested in giving up their 2nd rounder to move into that position. I mean no team in the NFL needs a high draft pick worse than the Bills.

[Dante]

You win championships with elite talents. OF course, every once in a while you get a Rypien or Dilfer, but they are very rare. The QBs who win the most are elite talents. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben play behind olines that are on par with the Bills. Yet, they are special players who can make plays on their own. Edwards played scared. And I love Fitz but he is what he is (and I'd take him as a career backup for the Bills for the rest of his career).

 

I really believe 3 guys have elite potential in this draft. We need one of them. Then, you can build around them. It starts and ends with the QB.

I wouldn't be disappointed if they got an elite qb in the draft. It would be nice to have a future in that position. Hell, there are lots of holes the Bills could fill. But I still lean towards getting OLinemen,\. I personally believe that building a team is like building a house. Good foundation being the line that will last for 5 or 6 years if you get the right guys. Then we can run the ball and give any qb we have a fighting chance. If we can run the ball it helps our d keeping them off the field a bit more. I guess its just a matter of philosophy.

[BringBackFergy]

I wouldn't be disappointed if they got an elite qb in the draft. It would be nice to have a future in that position. Hell, there are lots of holes the Bills could fill. But I still lean towards getting OLinemen,\. I personally believe that building a team is like building a house. Good foundation being the line that will last for 5 or 6 years if you get the right guys. Then we can run the ball and give any qb we have a fighting chance. If we can run the ball it helps our d keeping them off the field a bit more. I guess its just a matter of philosophy.

 

Agreed. The way I see it is there are two camps as it relates to next year's season: Those who want the excitement of a young, highly touted QB wearing a Bills uniform and those who would rather see four big, cornfed lineman protecting the pocket next year (with a mediocre QB).

 

As you know, I fall into the latter category but can't help getting excited for a young QB with mental and physical toughness, an arm, and the intelligence to learn the offense quickly with the hope that he too (a la Kelly and Manning) could call his own plays at the line of scrim.

 

But with Spiller, and a not so exciting draft of senior/junior QB's, I am equally excited about finding two monstrous offensive linemen and another via FA to open holes for Spiller next year. These college guards and tackles from the SEC and PAC see alot of different blitz packages, alot of stunts and are bright guys. The college level defensive schemes are probably as advanced and technical as the NFL in this day and age. If Buffalo gets two of the top four linemen in the draft, they are well on their way to opening holes for Spiller; the QB (whoever the "franchise" QB is that we are waiting for this coming year or the next)will have a smile on his face when he arrives in camp and sees the fortress in front of him.

 

To do otherwise and throw $30 million at a young QB this coming year is to perpetuate the very problem we are facing right now as fans.

[akm0404]

Stop throwing around this "throw $30 million at a young qb" garbage. ANY player you draft in your draft slot is going to make roughly the same amount of money. You draft a QB #1, you are going to pay him a truckload of money. You draft a OL #1, you are going to pay him a truckload of money. Everything gets slotted in. You draft Aaron Maybin or you draft Clay Matthews, you are going to pay them the same amount. Throwing that dollar figure around as a reason NOT to try to draft a franchise quarterback is just irrelevant.

 

Further, listing off the well-known quarterback draft busts does nothing to argue against the merits of selecting a quarterback with the Bills first round draft pick. For every Akili Smith there is a Mike Williams. Quarterbacks bust, linemen bust, safeties bust, corners bust. Every high draft choice carries with it an inherent chance to be a poor selection. Not picking a quarterback doesn't make you immune to selecting poorly.

 

The other argument against drafting a quarterback #1 is that the Bills have so many holes to fill. They sure do. We need offensive linemen that can play, defensive linemen that can play, linebackers that can play, receivers that can play, and the list goes on and on. We have a million holes. But, please don't forget that your quarterback is the most important position on the team. The most important position on any team in any sport out there. The face of your franchise. Don't over-think it. Fill the most important hole first, and be unafraid of selecting poorly. You can't just put off the selection for a few years because you are scared of missing.

 

The way I see it is there are two camps as it relates to next year's season: Those who want the excitement of a young, highly touted QB wearing a Bills uniform and those who would rather see four big, cornfed lineman protecting the pocket next year (with a mediocre QB).

 

How is this even close to where the two camps stand? I have to trade drafting a quarterback for drafting 4 linemen? What?

 

The two camps are:

1. Draft a potential franchise quarterback, fully accepting the risks inherent to drafting a quarterback #1.

 

2. Draft a potential franchise left tackle, fully accepting the risks inherent to drafting an offensive lineman #1.

 

WTF is this 1 QB = 4 "corn-fed" behemoths exchange rate?