For all you veteran Bills fan...

[CookieG]

It depends on how you define "bad" or "worst". Do you like a peak and valley or do you like a long term flat line?

 

I'm a little too young to remember the pre 1973 years, except to say that I knew they were bad, and no doubt looked hopeless. But the bad years of the 70's and early 80's were at least broken up by a few playoff appearances, and at least an offense that was tolerable to watch during the few good years. The 73-75 teams at least had the best running game in the league, and the 80-82 teams could compete with the best teams in the league.

 

At least when Saban and Knox came in, you could at least expect a change in things, if only temporarily.

 

We've spent the past 10 years being "2-3 years away". The only time they really came close to challenging for even a playoff spot was in 2004. That was 6 years ago. During that time, we've had a presentable offense for exactly 1 year.

 

Up until the last year or 2, I'd never have compared the past decade with the 70's or 80's. But the "2-3 years away" routine has worn out its welcome for me, along with the "we have to rebuild the defense with a new scheme" routine.

 

It is time to "build" rather than "rebuild". And it is time to win games.

[Buftex]

Actually, I would argue that objectively the Bills are nowhere near the worst they have ever been. They have fielded far worse teams.

 

But some may experience this period as worse due to their age, experience or the perception the Bills aren't properly using their resources. That says more about the fan than the team, IMO.

 

 

You are right. But, you are missing my point...I guess I have to keep posts short and snappy...nobody reads much anymore.

 

Yes, of course, the Bills have had teams with worse records, but never such a long succession of fruitless seasons. I guess we will disagree on their use of resources. I contend, the Bills use their resources fine, but their greatest objective isn't the same as ours, as fans. And the Bills don't use all of the resources that other teams use. If you are going to run a team the way the Bills do, where dollars are more important than winning, you have to hire damn good people to get those results. It can be done. But, sadly, it is not.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Buftex

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

You are right. But, you are missing my point...I guess I have to keep posts short and snappy...nobody reads much anymore.

 

 

Short and snappy is nice, though I do not see the need for the crack at others' reading skills. Your thoughtful post emphasized how your personal situation (age, experience, level of interest, feelings about the economic situation in WNY) led you to feel that this current situation is the worst for the Bills. All perfectly understandable points, but all related less to outside/objective factors than to your sense of what they mean. It appears to this observer that Dean's short and snappy point, that one's feelings about the current situation being worst say more about the poster than the team (which I did not take as an insult to anyone), was pretty spot on.

[Buftex]

Short and snappy is nice, though I do not see the need for the crack at others' reading skills. Your thoughtful post emphasized how your personal situation (age, experience, level of interest, feelings about the economic situation in WNY) led you to feel that this current situation is the worst for the Bills. All perfectly understandable points, but all related less to outside/objective factors than to your sense of what they mean. It appears to this observer that Dean's short and snappy point, that one's feelings about the current situation being worst say more about the poster than the team (which I did not take as an insult to anyone), was pretty spot on.

 

 

+1

[bananathumb]

Been following them since the 1960s I'd say the teams of the late 60s were the absolute worst--they could not beat anybody. And the 0 for 20 stretch against the Dolphins in the 1970s was worse than the current miserable record against the Pats.

 

Having said that, the last decade has been extremely painful. But what somebody said about the Bills earlier this week is true--they have never been a good team with stretches of badness, but a bad team with only two good teams: the team of 1963-66 and the team of 1988-1999.

 

 

I've watched them since the 70s and yes this is the low point. Fact is, they never were any good - four straight SP losses - yet I have kept hoping they would hire an intelligent coach/GM combo (not a Levy lover). Chan seems OK, but the Kelsay and Edwards fiasco has done it for me. This is the first time I don't care. Don't care if they win or lose, don't care if they get a top draft pick or not. They'll just blow it again and again. I don't have luck with my teams. In baseball, I have watched ExposNationals miss playoffs 29 years straight, but even the Washington Nationals have more upside than this Buffalo disaster.

 

Go Bills...go to hell.

[Rico]

The perception it's worse now is thanks to the Internet & message boards. Back in the day, you didn't have trolls everywhere defending Ralph & the Front Office... just adding to the annoyance.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Rico

[BobbyC81]

Most of the 70's and early 80's!

 

Yeah, the disparity in talent was often an extreme back then. They'd have a few games in a season where they'd get just a few 1st downs and lose like 31-0. The Green Bay game, although a similar score didn't feel as bad because the defense helped hold it to 13-7 at the half and the 1st downs and time of possession were close.

 

There were many games in the 70's & 80's where the game was over in the 1st qtr and you knew there was no way the team had the capability to make a game of it.

[billsfan714]

It really is quite a testament to Mr. Wilson's stewardship of this team if our working on 0 for 11 in playoff appearances is a debatable low point for the Bills.

 

To the people making the arguement the late 60s-mid 80s teams were worse, dont sell the 2010 Bills short. If we lose to the Jets we would be 0-4 and have to play .500 ball the rest of the way to get to 6-10. Were one Fitzy injury from our 1 and 2 QBs being a guy signed from a practice squad and a 7th rounder. This team is quite capable of putting up a 2-14 or 3-13 season, maybe even worse. So you would have 11 years of ZERO peaks capped with one of the worst teams in the NFL in year 11 of your rebuild. Thats pretty low in my book.

[BobbyC81]

I remember the first live game I went to at the old Rockpile, I believe 1970. The coin toss went in favor of the Cardinals and all of the UB students who were drinking nearby proclaimed that "the Bills had lost the toss so the game was over". The Cards won, btw with Jim Hart at QB. I think the Bills won 2 games that season, ugh!

 

Hey, I think that was the 1st game I went to also. Alvin Wyatt with a punt return TD?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Hey, I think that was the 1st game I went to also. Alvin Wyatt with a punt return TD?

 

It was 1971. The Cards won 28-23.....

[thewildrabbit]

Oh well...I think you completely missed my point. But, once again, you make a good case for my point. You say it is "always about coaching", but then make the argument, that, no, it is really about the owner. Honestly, and I don't mean any disrespect to you, or anyone else insisting that things were worse before, I think you have exceeded in your role as the optimistic fan. I am not being sarcastic, but I envy you.

 

 

To me, I would sacrifice ten 7-9 seasons for two 2-14 seasons, knowing that things would get much better. Now, the Bills are stuck in a time loop, where they are annually ranked somewhere in the bottom third of the worst teams in the league, with an owner who has no clue it appears (or desire as you claim) as to how to really stem the tide, circling the drain. Even if you think the Bills have a shot at making the playoffs this season, you do realize, there has never been a more futile stretch in the Bills history, than the last decade? I think, if the Bills start making more of the right moves, and not the wrong ones, they could be a playoff contender in, say, 2012 at the earliest. That would extend the current streak from 10 to 12 years. As bad as some individual seasons have been, in the past, I don't know how you could not see that the current waive of mediocrity (and I am being kind) is as bad as it gets.

 

You think I am just thinking now is worse, because it is fresh on my mind...I think you think now is better, because you are so close, you don't have a bigger perspective. Warning: objects in mirror may be closer than they appear!

Stop condescending, if anybody missed a point it was you. In exactly what part of my post did I state that I was optimistic? No need to envy me, I'm on the verge of giving up completely on this team / owner to step up before he steps off. It is about the head coach and the owner who refuses to pay a top coach. The entire difference between you and me is I've seen first hand what a coach like Chuck Knox can do for this franchise.

 

Some questions, did you ever have no home preseasons games whatsoever played in Buffalo because nobody would attend? Were you ever at a point at the beginning of the season where you started watching more college football then NFL football because you wanted to see who the best players to draft were?

 

If you never experienced the 70s-80's, then you really have no basis to compare the low points, to you those years were just numbers on paper, screen. Did you EVER experience a game with almost nobody in the stadium in a home game and most of those fans wearing bags on their head? Sitting at a 1/2 empty home game where the opposing team has more fans in the stands is about the most embarrassing moment I can recall as a Bills fan.

Exactly how many home games have you missed completely because they didn't sell out before the blackout, I can those count on one hand over the last ten years. I can recall If I didn't buy tickets I wouldn't be able to see my team at all on Sunday, year after year, missing home game after home game because the game wasn't sold out.

 

This franchise got extremely lucky to draft Jim Kelly, you know kinda like hens teeth type of thing, and then watch him to decide to not join the team but to play for an upstart USFL league, don't forget the first pick was that great tight end Tony Hunter. This wasn't the first time that happened, it also happened with Tom Cousineau who was the #1 OVERALL pick in the draft who decided to play for the CFL!!. Come on, try to imagine for a minute that CJ Spiller would rather play for the USFL or the lowly CFL then the buffalo Bills, then get back to me about low points

Bill Polian was another "Hens Teeth" type of thing, you honestly think that by going 2-14 this season this team will miraculously find another GM like him, or that Buddy Nix in any way shape or form resembles him?

 

Going 2-14 doesn't mean that this team is suddenly going to start drafting brilliantly and the coaches suddenly turn from bums into winners like some Cinderella story! If anyone is an optimist... it is you, do you honestly think that by going 2-14 this year and they manage to be bad enough to obtain a top 5 pick that they will choose wisely? I can tell you by looking at this years draft and free agency ...expect to be disappointed at next years draft. From my view Nix and Gailey are pretty bad so far, this is the guy that said Spiller would make the line block better, that happened in the Miami game didn't it? Should Fitz get Injured the Bills will finally get to see "IF" Brian Brohm can play. Cornell Green, Chris Kelsay ...need I say more.

 

The changes brought about by going 2-14 were agonizing years to endure, if you never had to endure a 2-14 season then you can't know or understand how that feels. But knowing that you feel that going 2-14 will correct everything wrong with this decade, enjoy the pain

[Beebe's Kid]

15 loosing seasons in 21 years 1967- 1987; Marv Levy's first full season of coaching the Bills. There has definitely been more bad years than good and have I been in the stands or on the sidelines for many (since 1962) except when I was in the US Navy from 70-76. Here is a breakdown:

 

67 4-10 Joel Collier coach

68 1-12-1 Harvey Johnson friend of Wilson

69 4-10 John Rauch

70 3-10-1 " "

71 1-13 Replay on the Harvey Johnson as coach wannabe

72 4-9-1 Saban took over and for three years after 73 9-5; 74 9-5 & 75 8-6

76 2-12 Jim Ringo

77 3-11 Jim Ringo

in 78 Chuck Knox took over, 5-11 his first season coaching and had a few winning seasons until he left for more money because Wilson wouldn't pay him

Two 2 & 14 seasons in 84 & 85 Kay Stephenson and then the all time scholar Hank Bullough before he was fired half way through the 1986 season and Marv Levy took over coaching

Here is link: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/

 

Well look, darlin'. It's Jimmy Ringo...what do you think? Should I hate him?

[Buftex]

Stop condescending, if anybody missed a point it was you. In exactly what part of my post did I state that I was optimistic? No need to envy me, I'm on the verge of giving up completely on this team / owner to step up before he steps off. It is about the head coach and the owner who refuses to pay a top coach. The entire difference between you and me is I've seen first hand what a coach like Chuck Knox can do for this franchise.

 

Some questions, did you ever have no home preseasons games whatsoever played in Buffalo because nobody would attend? Were you ever at a point at the beginning of the season where you started watching more college football then NFL football because you wanted to see who the best players to draft were?

If you never experienced the 70s-80's, then you really have no basis to compare the low points, to you those years were just numbers on paper, screen. Did you EVER experience a game with almost nobody in the stadium in a home game and most of those fans wearing bags on their head? Sitting at a 1/2 empty home game where the opposing team has more fans in the stands is about the most embarrassing moment I can recall as a Bills fan.

Exactly how many home games have you missed completely because they didn't sell out before the blackout, I can those count on one hand over the last ten years. I can recall If I didn't buy tickets I wouldn't be able to see my team at all on Sunday, year after year, missing home game after home game because the game wasn't sold out.

 

This franchise got extremely lucky to draft Jim Kelly, you know kinda like hens teeth type of thing, and then watch him to decide to not join the team but to play for an upstart USFL league, don't forget the first pick was that great tight end Tony Hunter. This wasn't the first time that happened, it also happened with Tom Cousineau who was the #1 OVERALL pick in the draft who decided to play for the CFL!!. Come on, try to imagine for a minute that CJ Spiller would rather play for the USFL or the lowly CFL then the buffalo Bills, then get back to me about low points

Bill Polian was another "Hens Teeth" type of thing, you honestly think that by going 2-14 this season this team will miraculously find another GM like him, or that Buddy Nix in any way shape or form resembles him?

 

Going 2-14 doesn't mean that this team is suddenly going to start drafting brilliantly and the coaches suddenly turn from bums into winners like some Cinderella story! If anyone is an optimist... it is you, do you honestly think that by going 2-14 this year and they manage to be bad enough to obtain a top 5 pick that they will choose wisely? I can tell you by looking at this years draft and free agency ...expect to be disappointed at next years draft. From my view Nix and Gailey are pretty bad so far, this is the guy that said Spiller would make the line block better, that happened in the Miami game didn't it? Should Fitz get Injured the Bills will finally get to see "IF" Brian Brohm can play. Cornell Green, Chris Kelsay ...need I say more.

 

The changes brought about by going 2-14 were agonizing years to endure, if you never had to endure a 2-14 season then you can't know or understand how that feels. But knowing that you feel that going 2-14 will correct everything wrong with this decade, enjoy the pain

 

 

Sorry Harvey, I really wasn't trying to condescend. I had season tickets from 1978-1988, went to a quite a few games before and after that. As I stated in one of my diatribes, the Chuck Knox era of early 80's Bills football is still my favorite time as a Bills fan...the late 80's and 90's weren't too shabby. And, when OJ was breaking records in the 70's, there was something to hang your hat on. This century? Nothing. So, we are talking about the same time period. I don't know where you got the notion that I was hoping for a top 5 pick. As I said in another post, in this same thread, I root for the Bills to win, every week, and hate the notion that fans root for them to lose, to ensure a higher pick.

 

I have not completely given up on Chan Gailey, but, even the greatest coaches of all time, couldn't succeed with so many obstacles placed on them, by their ownership. I think, the players that are still here, will eventually play better under Gailey than they did Dick Jauron, but the results won't be much better, if at all.

 

I have missed one Bills game since 1989...saw it months later on a VHS video tape. It was the game the Colts blew the Bills out, Kelly got injured, and the "bickering Bills" were conceived. From 1972-1987, I went to 3-5 games a season, and only missed home games that were blacked out, and I wasn't fortunate enough to go to. I was too young to be able to afford season tickets then.

 

I guess I misconstrued your notion that this was not the worst period of Bills football, to mean that you were optimistic about them. And I honestly do envy people who still think things are going alright. I miss that feeling. My bad. All in all, I think we are saying the same thing, just I feel this last decade is as bad as it has ever been in my 38 years on the Bills bandwagon, and you feel it was worse at other times. To me, back to back 2-14 seasons, doesn't even begin to compare to 10 years of sub .500, particularly, with no end in sight.

[DarthICE]

No question. The past few years really don't come close, IMO.

 

 

Really? Well from 80-89 the Bills had 4 winning seasons and made the playoffs each of those years.

 

70-79 The Bills had 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs once.

 

60-69 the Bills had 5 winning seasons and two AFL championships

 

2000-2009 The Bills had ONE winning season and NO playoffs.

 

 

So the reality is this has THE WORST Decade in Bills history. The Proof is right there if you go look at the records.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Really? Well from 80-89 the Bills had 4 winning seasons and made the playoffs each of those years.

 

70-79 The Bills had 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs once.

 

60-69 the Bills had 5 winning seasons and two AFL championships

 

2000-2009 The Bills had ONE winning season and NO playoffs.

 

 

So the reality is this has THE WORST Decade in Bills history. The Proof is right there if you go look at the records.

 

 

In the 1970s, the Bills were 40 games under .500. Check that piece of proof.

[Bob in STL]

Yes and no. Really, the dryest period in team history was 1967-1979 inclusive. 13 seasons, three winning seasons (1973-1975), one playoff appearance (1974). eight seasons with 10 or more losses (1967-1971, 1976-78), two with 9 losses (72 and 79). And note that before 1978, it was a 14-game season. In 1968, and 1971, the Bills won one game; in 1976 they won 2. It is true that the one playoff appearance broke up the awful years, but that is minor. Consider, in this period: No wins against the Dolphins (in Miami between 1966 and 1983, anywhere 1970-1979), Oilers (1966-1983), or against any team on the West Coast (1966-1980).

 

That cavalcade of pain is off the top of my head. The present does not come close. Just keep it in perspective kids.

 

 

Well at least there was 1 play off and three winning seasons in that 13 year span to eleviate the pain. We also had OJ and some better players than now. I personally think the past 10 year is the worst.

 

Maybe its the excessive media coverage or the internet?

[BillsfaninFl]

Just have a question for all you long time bills fans. By long time im talking like 30-40 years. Anyways, my question is: Has there ever been a lower point to be a bills fan? If yes, when? Just curious. Go bills

 

It has been mostly low points while I have followed the Bills for their entire existence. But if I must choose between them, the latest string has got me down more than in the past. It has to do with the period of time and the prospects for the future. A few bad seasons were disheartening, but there was always hope and eventually they would come back to respectability. This time is different. They have "fallen and they can't get up." And I have no hope that they will return to respectability as long as that cheap bas---d owns the team. And since the odds are that they will move when they are sold, what is there to look forward to? So I cling to the remote chance that a white knight will buy the team and keep it in Buffalo. It's like thinking the only way I can pay my bills is if I win the lottery. There's no way!

 

By the way, I moved out of Buffalo 25 years ago, but it is still "home" in my heart. And I feel strongly that the people of western New York deserve a break.

[Buftex]

In the 1970s, the Bills were 40 games under .500. Check that piece of proof.

 

 

And they are 31 games under .500 in this century. To me, a few 2 or 3 win seasons, with a playoff appearance is a better result. When the Bills went 5-11 in 2005 did it feel so much better to go 7-9 in 2006? The brightest stars of each decade were OJ Simpson and Drew Bledsoe...to me it is even close.

[The Dean]

 

 

Yes, of course, the Bills have had teams with worse records, but never such a long succession of fruitless seasons. I guess we will disagree on their use of resources. I contend, the Bills use their resources fine, but their greatest objective isn't the same as ours, as fans. And the Bills don't use all of the resources that other teams use. If you are going to run a team the way the Bills do, where dollars are more important than winning, you have to hire damn good people to get those results. It can be done. But, sadly, it is not.

 

 

I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree.

 

 

I've watched them since the 70s and yes this is the low point. Fact is, they never were any good - four straight SP losses

 

 

 

I stopped reading here. Anyone who thinks four straight AFC Championships counts as "not good" doesn't deserve to be heard any further.

 

 

The perception it's worse now is thanks to the Internet & message boards. Back in the day, you didn't have trolls everywhere defending Ralph & the Front Office... just adding to the annoyance.

 

 

Spot on.

 

 

Really? Well from 80-89 the Bills had 4 winning seasons and made the playoffs each of those years.

 

70-79 The Bills had 3 winning seasons and made the playoffs once.

 

60-69 the Bills had 5 winning seasons and two AFL championships

 

2000-2009 The Bills had ONE winning season and NO playoffs.

 

 

So the reality is this has THE WORST Decade in Bills history. The Proof is right there if you go look at the records.

 

 

First of all, ANY ten year period equals a decade. But if you insist on discussing only decades that start with the same year (ie. "the 80's", "the 90's") this still isn't the worst decade for the Bills. Take a look at the win totals and point disparities during the 70's when compared to the past ten years:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/

 

It isn't even close. The team has been competitive in games this decade compared to the 70's.

[DarthICE]

In the 1970s, the Bills were 40 games under .500. Check that piece of proof.

 

I did, 3 straight winning seasons and a playoff apperance. FACT, check it out.

 

I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

I stopped reading here. Anyone who thinks four straight AFC Championships counts as "not good" doesn't deserve to be heard any further.

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, ANY ten year period equals a decade. But if you insist on discussing only decades that start with the same year (ie. "the 80's", "the 90's") this still isn't the worst decade for the Bills. Take a look at the win totals and point disparities during the 70's when compared to the past ten years:

 

http://www.pro-footb....com/teams/buf/

 

It isn't even close. The team has been competitive in games this decade compared to the 70's.

 

I did

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/

 

And again the facts are 0 playoffs for 00-09, 1 winning season. 70-79 Three winning seasons in a row and a playoff apperance. Reality is the 00's have been the worst in Bills history. Losing season by 1 game or 13 games makes no difference.

 

Oh and on the whole a decade is any 10 year span, go look at those records, the gap between 99 and now is the longest stretch in Bills history without a playoff apperance. Further proof this is the worst this team has been in its history.