Captain Caveman Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 I guess if you are a believer and think the best is yet to come for the guy, it makes sense to control that asset. It's just that there's no evidence to suggest that that will be the case. This is like a 180 on what happened with Pat Williams (whose play at the time certainly merited more faith in the future than has Kelsay's). That's it, they're trying to get ahead of the Williams curve. Those crafty Bills.
dave mcbride Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 With agents being smarter than your average bear, "roster" bonuses are usually due in March, so my guess is that Kelsay's 2011 roster bonus would be on March 1, 2011 to elevate the low salary level. So it's highly unlikely that he gets cut in March, leaving the Bills without an upgrade at OLB or a $4 million backup OLB. Mickey Mouse planning. It depends. If he completely flames out, then they should know by March 1 that it's time to move in a different direction. If he solidifies the position over the course of this year, it won't be a bad investment to pay $3.5-4.5 million next year (roster bonus plus a $2 million base).
Ramius Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 It depends. If he completely flames out, then they should know by March 1 that it's time to move in a different direction. If he solidifies the position over the course of this year, it won't be a bad investment to pay $3.5-4.5 million next year (roster bonus plus a $2 million base). We could have done the same thing without wasting money on this stupid extension. If he all of a sudden plays lights out, then pay him the 5 mil per season extension. But, he's not going to.
dayman Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 Got to have faith in Kelsay. Is the board just going to hate him for 4 years now?
dave mcbride Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) We could have done the same thing without wasting money on this stupid extension. If he all of a sudden plays lights out, then pay him the 5 mil per season extension. But, he's not going to. $2.4 million is pocket change. Who cares if we (meaning the Bills, not me or you) waste it? Edited September 30, 2010 by dave mcbride
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) $2.4 million is pocket change. Who cares if we (meaning the Bills, not me or you) waste it? I don't think it is as much the money as much as what it means. It is almost like a vote of confidence that they are going to keep him there as a starter... though that is VERY tentative. Like the jauron deal, it didn't keep jauron here. But it still seems like a vote of confidence at probably the weakest unit on the defensive side of the ball. There is so much of this team that still isn't working yet, and it is pretty damn hard to take the growing pains by this new front office with so much failure from the previous ones. I am really hoping they have an offseason that really takes stride this coming season. But I agree with you, anyone that is upset that the bills are spending money is insane. That isn't exactly money that can do any better than getting a stop gap player... and it isn't coming out of the fans pockets. I say the bills should keep practicing spending money... and hopefully start actually paying bigger bucks for real players. Edited September 30, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa
BuffaloATL Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 Any explanation of why this deal benefits the Bills is a huge stretch. No explanation in the world can justify the price/year on this extention. I can barely understand having him around at all, but this price. Geez. Who else was going to pay this guy that money!!
Cash Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 It depends. If he completely flames out, then they should know by March 1 that it's time to move in a different direction. If he solidifies the position over the course of this year, it won't be a bad investment to pay $3.5-4.5 million next year (roster bonus plus a $2 million base). The problem with this line of reasoning is that if the Bills thought there was any realistic chance of Kelsay flaming out, they wouldn't be giving him an extension right now. If fact, if they weren't specifically happy with his play in the new defense so far, they wouldn't give him an extension right now. I disagree with the notion that the Bills can just cut bait with Kelsay at any time and only lose the guaranteed money. The fact that this extension came so early shows that the Bills really like Kelsay, and consider him part of the rebuilding process, not a stopgap until they can get someone better. That's my take on it, anyway.
BuffaloATL Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 The problem with this line of reasoning is that if the Bills thought there was any realistic chance of Kelsay flaming out, they wouldn't be giving him an extension right now. If fact, if they weren't specifically happy with his play in the new defense so far, they wouldn't give him an extension right now. I disagree with the notion that the Bills can just cut bait with Kelsay at any time and only lose the guaranteed money. The fact that this extension came so early shows that the Bills really like Kelsay, and consider him part of the rebuilding process, not a stopgap until they can get someone better. That's my take on it, anyway. This
....lybob Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 I really can't believe that there are Bills fans defending this move- I thought in pre-season Chris Ellis looked like our best OLB especially as a pass rusher- and as for "creating another hole" if I couldn't get a better OLB than Kelsay through the draft or FA I'd commit hara-kiri on the 50 yard-line at the Ralph with Nirvana's All Apologies paying over the sound system.
dave mcbride Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 The problem with this line of reasoning is that if the Bills thought there was any realistic chance of Kelsay flaming out, they wouldn't be giving him an extension right now. If fact, if they weren't specifically happy with his play in the new defense so far, they wouldn't give him an extension right now. I disagree with the notion that the Bills can just cut bait with Kelsay at any time and only lose the guaranteed money. The fact that this extension came so early shows that the Bills really like Kelsay, and consider him part of the rebuilding process, not a stopgap until they can get someone better. That's my take on it, anyway. I don't necessarily disagree with you at all. However, the deal is done, and there's nothing we can do about it. That said, I think it's important to point out that they're not on the hook for nearly as much money as people are claiming.
SwampD Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 Like I mentioned earlier, I think the OP has some affiliation with the Bills. Furthermore, the OP states that no one here really understands contracts. Then someone mentions they have negotiated pro contracts before. Then the OP attacks his credibility. The OP wants it both ways. And to build off another persons point, according to the OP, the fact that most people were pissed when Pat Williams was let go was also group think lol. Now I'm depressed.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 $2.4 million is pocket change. Who cares if we (meaning the Bills, not me or you) waste it? I do, because it indicates that they are happy with their situation at SOLB. You want to play good defense in a 3-4? Get a good NT and a couple LB's that can rush the passer and fill in the rest of the front 7 with big, average athletes. In typical Bills fashion, they are ignoring the parts that make the system work.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 Got to have faith in Kelsay. Is the board just going to hate him for 4 years now? We've hated him since his first extension.
Thurman#1 Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 Yes, it makes sense to overpay an aging, clumsy, slow, defensive end to play linebacker for a four year deal, because it is impossible to conceive that the Bills might be able to replace him. In four years. Four years. I feel a little better now about the rude post you felt like putting in my thread, to see that you are actually just a total idiot. The deal in no way forces the Bills to hold on to Kelsay for four years. In fact, from what little we've heard, it makes him easy to cut at any time. You must work for the Bills PR department don't you? It's the only thing that makes sense to me about someone trying this hard to justify Kelsey's contract. He's making sense.
SwampD Posted September 30, 2010 Posted September 30, 2010 He's making sense. As soon as the Bills start winning, that is when I will believe that anything they do makes sense. You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you'll never fool all of the people all of the time. When you have to try this hard to make us understand how a certain move is good for the team,.. it's probably not a good move. How many more moves do we need to be convinced are good for the Bills? Haven't we had our fill this past decade. I'll know a good move when I see it.
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 (edited) I do, because it indicates that they are happy with their situation at SOLB. You want to play good defense in a 3-4? Ge t a good NT and a couple LB's that can rush the passer and fill in the rest of the front 7 with big, average athletes. In typical Bills fashion, they are ignoring the parts that make the system work. They did draft a big NT pretty highly, and maybe he'll be good. They need a pass rusher on the weakside before the strong, and if you have to pick one side, I'd take the weak. They're only going to have a chance to get one of those because of the much bigger problem at QB, OT, and now WR (and of course TE, but that goes without saying). Us arguing about Kelsay's value is essentially whistling past the graveyard that is the Bills passing offense. Edited October 1, 2010 by dave mcbride
Kultarr Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 They did draft a big NT pretty highly, and maybe he'll be good. They need a pass rusher on the weakside before the strong, and if you have to pick one side, I'd take the weak. They're only going to have a chance to get one of those because of the much bigger problem at QB, OT, and now WR (and of course TE, but that goes without saying). Us arguing about Kelsay's value is essentially whistling past the graveyard that is the Bills passing offense. But what sort of answer is Kelsay at Sam? He can't cover TEs or RBs coming out, and that's a key responsibility of a Sam in the 3-4. I don't get why you think only the Will dogs in this defense. The reason the 3-4 is effective is because you can send any of the LBs and the Sam and Will are both used. Of course, Maybin has no other role, so he's going to be rushing the passer (I say that very loosely) every single time. But that negates the advantage, the initiative, of running the scheme in the first place.
BobbyC81 Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Sorry, read the post and still have no clue why that extension makes any sense whatsoever. Me either. He has not shown anything to me to deserve an extension.
Pass the Pipe Posted October 1, 2010 Posted October 1, 2010 Look at the Bills linebackers. You have Poz. You have Kelsay. Then you have: Akin Ayodele Antonio Coleman Andra Davis Chris Ellis Keith Ellison Aaron Maybin Arthur Moats Reggie Torbor I mean, there is just not much there. Do you want to extend Keith Ellison instead? It is just not realistic to replace all of these players in one offseason. Kelsay isn't very good, but neither is anyone else. You just have to keep some mediocre players around while the team goes through the process of rebuilding. It's not like the Bills are going to run out of cap space. This has no bearing on free agency or the draft. There are bigger areas of need on this team, and Kelsay is just a band-aid for a few years while more important issues are addressed. You are exactly the problem my friend.
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