Chris Kelsay - the facts

[Big Turk]

He IS a solid contributor...just b/c he's not a "difference maker" doesn't mean we wouldn't simply be creating more holes (which we CAN'T DO) by letting him go. He'll continue to improve in the new scheme. And the money is not nearly the waste you think it is, that entire aspect is overblown...look at the atmosphere...new CBA...decent timing...we don't know the structure of it anyway...

 

MUST make move.

 

I agree...he is a solid contributor in helping every TE in the league he is covering make more money because they have career games against him, and helping marginal running backs like BenJarvis Green-Ellis look like all-pros because he is too slow to track them down as an OLB. He was a marginal DE, and is a "How is this guy in the NFL?" OLB...

[Gabe Northern]

Kelsay does not excel versus the run and he does not keep contain. These comments are simply wrong.

 

If fact, they're not just wrong, I don't understand how anyone who watches the games could think them.

 

When teams run off-tackle right at your for hundreds of yards per game, you are not a run stopper.

[dave mcbride]

Hes not terrible but hes average.

 

Still i have yet to see a comparable OLB get his kind of money; unless the goal is to lock him up with almost no guaranteed $$ until they find a replacement i dont see how this is a good move.

It seems to me that we're giving him a bonus that's effectively $2.4 million - a $2 million option bonus plus a $400,000 raise for this year. All the rest is fluff. If he totally tanks this year and next preseason, they should be able to cut him with no adverse consequences.

[Big Turk]

Kelsay does not excel versus the run and he does not keep contain. These comments are simply wrong.

 

If fact, they're not just wrong, I don't understand how anyone who watches the games could think them.

 

When teams run off-tackle right at your for hundreds of yards per game, you are not a run stopper.

 

As an OLB when the RB runs to the outside and you have the angle cut down on him, only to see him blow right past you, as you are still 5 yards away from him, it looks comical, as in "Why is this guy playing OLB if he can't even get to the area the ballcarrier is going when he has the angle cut off on?"

[GG]

Btw, the guaranteed money appears to be $2.4 million ( http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/9/30/1722305/chris-kelsay-contract-details-lb-gets-10-raise ). Chump change, as it were ...

 

The big unknown is if they include the remaining 2010 salary in that contract extension. If they do, then the numbers aren't bad. If they don't then he's due another $5 mil in bonuses, and we don't know how much of that is guaranteed. The only way the deal makes sense is if remaining '10 salary is part of the $20mil, and the bonuses are not guaranteed.

[dave mcbride]

The big unknown is if they include the remaining 2010 salary in that contract extension. If they do, then the numbers aren't bad. If they don't then he's due another $5 mil in bonuses, and we don't know how much of that is guaranteed. The only way the deal makes sense is if remaining '10 salary is part of the $20mil, and the bonuses are not guaranteed.

I've never heard of a second, later guaranteed bonus before though. I mean, if he either completely flames out this year or suffers a bad injury, are the Bills going to be on the hook for giving him an additional bonus in September 2011 (or whenever)? That seems unlikely to me. What seems more likely is the agent puffing up his client's modest contract deal so that he can lure other prospective clients. It also makes the Bills look more generous than they really are to other prospective free agents. Happens all the time.

Edited September 30, 2010 by dave mcbride

[RuntheDamnBall]

So it's really only like buying a $55 garbage can, that you can totally give to the Salvation Army if you don't like it.

[Captain Caveman]

So it's really only like buying a $55 garbage can, that you can totally give to the Salvation Army if you don't like it.

 

yes, exactly.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Captain Caveman

[Thirty Year Fan]

Alright - So I haven't posted in awhile but a few things are bugging me.

 

1.) I was a huge Kelsay hater - the guy never gets sacks, he was a "bust" for a 2nd round DE, etc. but then I started to look at him as a DE and not the second coming of aaron schobel. I recommend you all do the same. The guy is, and has been, our best DE against the run since he got here. he is going to continue to be solid against the run. This is no different then having a guy like Dwan Edwards brought in. both are solid all around players who will generate a small pass rush, but who excel at stopping the run.

 

2.) I hate as much as anyone that he is asked to drop into coverage. This is to the fault of the DC, and we can only hope it will change once they get a respectable LB that can cover TEs. For the time being, Bryan Scott is sadly our answer. Is he a pass covering LB? not at all. He is, however, an everydown player who reacts well and diagnoses plays. His weakness is, and will be, speed. If the DC continues to use him in positions as a stand up 3-4 outside backer that is used to rush the passer and contain RBs, he will be a solid, every down player. However, if he is used at anypoint inthe future to COVER a TE or a RB out in the flat, then shame on them. Note - The bills under Jauron were NOTORIOUS for placing Schobel and Kelsay and Denny back in coverage positions. this made no sense then and makes no sense now.

 

3.) His weaknesses? speed. Pure and simple he isn't a speed rusher or a pass covering LB. He is a run stopper and a containment player who also plays on special teams (yes watch and he actually is in there for plays).

 

Is he worth 6mil? It's not much of a raise (250k/yr) from his last deal so at the risk of creating another hole on our team its not a horrible move. We are a team with a LOT of needs. He is a solid contributor and losing him is just creating more holes we must fill in the draft and FA.

 

finally, after I get flamed at, don't take my word but look at what Scouts INC has to say about him:

 

"He will be an outside linebacker in the Bills' 3-4 defense. He is a player who is used to playing with his hand on the ground. Kelsay is a good athlete, however, and he should be able to make the adjustment. He shows very good initial quickness as an up-the-field player. He is small but uses his hands well to keep blockers off his body. He shows good lateral speed and range. Kelsay might struggle early versus the run as it could be tough for him to diagnose as a stand-up LB."

Let Pat Williams walk and pay Kelsay oh thats right we don't want pro bowlers on this team!

[GG]

I've never heard of a second, later guaranteed bonus before though.

 

I believe that they are neraly standard now. The reported contracts now always talk about gauranteed payments, which are always greater than the initial signing bonus.

[Meathead]

i only dont like him cuz hes white

[T master]

There's a couple of thing's no one can argue about Kelsy

 

1.) He's a team player and will do what you need him to !!

 

2.) The guy has heart and gives it his all on every down !!

 

you won't see him taken plays off !!

[KOKBILLS]

Chris Kelsay *already is* a hole on the team. He is not serviceable. His loss would not *create* a hole on the team. HE IS THE HOLE!

 

Exactly...

 

Bring in better players or this thing is just going to keep getting worse...Or stay the same...

 

Same difference I guess...

[Rob's House]

Alright - So I haven't posted in awhile but a few things are bugging me.

 

1.) I was a huge Kelsay hater - the guy never gets sacks, he was a "bust" for a 2nd round DE, etc. but then I started to look at him as a DE and not the second coming of aaron schobel. I recommend you all do the same. The guy is, and has been, our best DE against the run since he got here. he is going to continue to be solid against the run. This is no different then having a guy like Dwan Edwards brought in. both are solid all around players who will generate a small pass rush, but who excel at stopping the run.

 

2.) I hate as much as anyone that he is asked to drop into coverage. This is to the fault of the DC, and we can only hope it will change once they get a respectable LB that can cover TEs. For the time being, Bryan Scott is sadly our answer. Is he a pass covering LB? not at all. He is, however, an everydown player who reacts well and diagnoses plays. His weakness is, and will be, speed. If the DC continues to use him in positions as a stand up 3-4 outside backer that is used to rush the passer and contain RBs, he will be a solid, every down player. However, if he is used at anypoint inthe future to COVER a TE or a RB out in the flat, then shame on them. Note - The bills under Jauron were NOTORIOUS for placing Schobel and Kelsay and Denny back in coverage positions. this made no sense then and makes no sense now.

 

3.) His weaknesses? speed. Pure and simple he isn't a speed rusher or a pass covering LB. He is a run stopper and a containment player who also plays on special teams (yes watch and he actually is in there for plays).

 

Is he worth 6mil? It's not much of a raise (250k/yr) from his last deal so at the risk of creating another hole on our team its not a horrible move. We are a team with a LOT of needs. He is a solid contributor and losing him is just creating more holes we must fill in the draft and FA.

 

finally, after I get flamed at, don't take my word but look at what Scouts INC has to say about him:

 

"He will be an outside linebacker in the Bills' 3-4 defense. He is a player who is used to playing with his hand on the ground. Kelsay is a good athlete, however, and he should be able to make the adjustment. He shows very good initial quickness as an up-the-field player. He is small but uses his hands well to keep blockers off his body. He shows good lateral speed and range. Kelsay might struggle early versus the run as it could be tough for him to diagnose as a stand-up LB."

Thanks for the post. I feel a lot better about this move after reading it.

[KOKBILLS]

There's a couple of thing's no one can argue about Kelsy

 

1.) He's a team player and will do what you need him to !!

 

2.) The guy has heart and gives it his all on every down !!

 

you won't see him taken plays off !!

 

3.) He has a high motor...

 

[The Big Cat]

Uh, he's playing LB, not DE.

 

I know that. Which is what's even more baffling about people using his extension as a chance to aimlessly rail against our DE's.

 

Really? Marcus Stroud has all but been put on the missing persons list although Dwan Edwards is decent to good. Unfortunately, the defense is among the league's worst against the run. And, in passing situations they play guys like Ellison and Bryan Scott at LB to make Kelsay play DE where he gets no push whatsoever.

 

Kelsay will play a lot more 43DE than 34OLB if games continue the way they have.

 

Ironically, people bashed guys like Fletcher because the team overall was bad against the run (140rypga in 06). I see now we're excusing a guy who happens to play in a bad defense proving once again it's a unit issue, not one guy.

 

The defense is terrible against the run because of our current situation at linebacker, NOT DE. Granted, some of the falls to Kelsay's feet, but he's one of four, and there's a gaping roster hole opposite him. Not to mention we lost two potential starters up the middle to injury (POZ, Mitchell).

 

Stroud is hurt; I wouldn't read too much into it. He's a good player.

 

Funny that you mention Fletcher - a solid-not-great player who is extremely durable. Sounds like Kelsay.

 

Btw, the guaranteed money appears to be $2.4 million ( http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/9/30/1722305/chris-kelsay-contract-details-lb-gets-10-raise ). Chump change, as it were ...

 

I love it.

 

Let the lunatic fringe grab their torches and pitch forks, bang their heads against a wall, and continue to bash a player who's put in a TON of thankless hours for this organization.

 

Meanwhile, the truth is, according to these numbers and according to the USA Today data base posted yesterday (link), he's now getting paid approximately the same way as Torbor an Ayodele. So, yeah...

[RuntheDamnBall]

Let the lunatic fringe grab their torches and pitch forks, bang their heads against a wall, and continue to bash a player who's put in a TON of thankless hours for this organization.

JP Losman put in thankless hours. Edwards put in thankless hours. Gregg Williams, I'm sure, put in thankless hours. If we can't criticize these guys for their play or their execution (and by criticize, I mean both positive and negative), why have a discussion at all?

 

I don't care about how many hours he's put in, and if his generous compensation (twice extended, now) qualifies as thankless or empty, sign me the F up for some thankless work. He is not that great as an OLB in the 3-4, at least not yet, and I just don't see how you reward that. There are other guys with upside who should be pushing Kelsay for playing time. Making up for the mistake of not stocking this team with enough talent by rewarding the cream of the crap is like doubling down on the worst bet you've made all day.

[The Big Cat]

JP Losman put in thankless hours. Edwards put in thankless hours. Gregg Williams, I'm sure, put in thankless hours. If we can't criticize these guys for their play or their execution (and by criticize, I mean both positive and negative), why have a discussion at all?

 

I don't care about how many hours he's put in, and if his generous compensation (twice extended, now) qualifies as thankless or empty, sign me the F up for some thankless work. He is not that great as an OLB in the 3-4, at least not yet, and I just don't see how you reward that. There are other guys with upside who should be pushing Kelsay for playing time. Making up for the mistake of not stocking this team with enough talent by rewarding the cream of the crap is like doubling down on the worst bet you've made all day.

 

Except for the fact that since his rookie year eight years ago, he's been good enough for FOUR different coaching regimes. He's played in EVERY game of his career, except for TWO in 2007. He was the ONLY defender to play every snap in week one of this year alone.

 

So tell me: what is it that YOU know that four head coaches over eight years have yet to realize?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Oh come on. He's not terrible, and you know it. He's not great, but he's certainly average. I'd also hold off passing judgment until later in the season regarding his ability to play the 3-4. You may end up being right - and I'll eat crow if need be - but talk about leaping to conclusions. Your man London Fletcher also struggled mightily against Brady and co. too.

So far, and I know it is only 3 games, but Badol is right. He is really awful at OLB. Maybe he gets better and maybe he doesn't. I'm not sure how he improves his instincts and innate fluid athleticism.

[dave mcbride]

So far, and I know it is only 3 games, but Badol is right. He is really awful at OLB. Maybe he gets better and maybe he doesn't. I'm not sure how he improves his instincts and innate fluid athleticism.

He did look out of position on one occasion in game one, but that might have been from lack of experience. As I said above, if he doesn't improve I'm willing to publicly eat crow. However, I think it's just as likely that he evolves into the position and plays it about as steadily as he did DE - average yet durable with good effort. Not great shakes, but hardly terrible.

Edited September 30, 2010 by dave mcbride