Chris Kelsay - the facts

[DaGimp]

Then ***** about him...not his money. If you straight up want him gone...I'm going to tell you right now you are not wise and would runt he team into the ground creating more holes building no depth and further burdening an already burdened FO...but that's your right...but too much of the frenzy is focused on the amount of money...and that's just ridiculous.

Do you watch this guy play? He has no value if your goal is to win games and get to the playoffs!

[tbonestake]

This is like buying a $100 garbage can. You need one and you could have had one for about 20 bucks. The Bills just overspent for a guy that is useful, but not for that amount of $.

 

 

[The Big Cat]

If you think DE is a "hole" on this team, then you must have missed the memo about us switching to the 3-4. DE is NOT a hole.

 

LB on the other hand, tremendous hole. We were light at the position last year, and then opted for a system that puts an extra body out there.

 

Whether or not you believe the team is in a rebuilding phase, you cannot deny that the DEFENSE most certainly is being built from the ground up.

 

But one place where we actually do have a solid foundation--in addition to the DB's--is DE.

[GG]

only 2M bonus...averaging 5M a seasons...w/ the extra 4 being incentives....this is totally reasonable

 

$2 mil bonus on top of about $4 mil in salary this year. The bigger question is the guaranteed money over that 4-yr span.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

2.) I hate as much as anyone that he is asked to drop into coverage. This is to the fault of the DC, and we can only hope it will change once they get a respectable LB that can cover TEs. For the time being, Bryan Scott is sadly our answer. Is he a pass covering LB? not at all. He is, however, an everydown player who reacts well and diagnoses plays. His weakness is, and will be, speed. If the DC continues to use him in positions as a stand up 3-4 outside backer that is used to rush the passer and contain RBs, he will be a solid, every down player. However, if he is used at anypoint inthe future to COVER a TE or a RB out in the flat, then shame on them. Note - The bills under Jauron were NOTORIOUS for placing Schobel and Kelsay and Denny back in coverage positions. this made no sense then and makes no sense now.

I agree with a lot of your points, but I have trouble with this statement. I could be wrong, but since when isn't a 3-4 OLB expected to drop back into coverage? Of course, the offensive alignment has a lot to do with the call, but it's a basic tenet of the position.

 

A 4-3 DE? That's a different argument.

[Captain Caveman]

only 2M bonus...averaging 5M a seasons...w/ the extra 4 being incentives....this is totally reasonable

 

I agree, with the stipulation that if doesn't improve through the rest of the year he should be cut.

 

If you think DE is a "hole" on this team, then you must have missed the memo about us switching to the 3-4. DE is NOT a hole.

 

LB on the other hand, tremendous hole. We were light at the position last year, and then opted for a system that puts an extra body out there.

 

Whether or not you believe the team is in a rebuilding phase, you cannot deny that the DEFENSE most certainly is being built from the ground up.

 

But one place where we actually do have a solid foundation--in addition to the DB's--is DE.

 

Uh, he's playing LB, not DE.

[Green Lightning]

How many threads on this are we going to have? Look, there's no argument that can convince me that this guy is worth the money and extension he just received. He cannot play OLB, cannot cover and is just too slow to rush the passer or cover. That's just the cold hard facts.

 

Keep him for this year, maybe a one year extension as a back-up for next but we need to improve that position and not waste salary cap dollars on someone who has zero future in our system. Discussion over.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Green Lightning

[tbonestake]

How many threads on this are we going to have? Look, there's no argument that can convince me that this guy is worth the money and extension he just received. Keep him for this year, maybe a one year extension as a back-up for next but we need to improve that position and not waste salary cap dollars on someone who has zero future in our system. Discussion over.

 

 

...but he's a good guy though

[Captain Caveman]

How many threads on this are we going to have? Look, there's no argument that can convince me that this guy is worth the money and extension he just received. He cannot play OLB, cannot cover and is just too slow to rush the passer or cover. That's just the cold hard facts.

 

Keep him for this year, maybe a one year extension as a back-up for next but we need to improve that position and not waste salary cap dollars on someone who has zero future in our system. Discussion over.

 

The money is guaranteed, and he got a very small bonus. Which means it is essentially a one year contract, unless he magically turns in to a Pro Bowler, in which case we make out ok.

[Deep2Moulds46]

I understand a lot of the points you made, but here is why I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

1) none of us are priveleged to watching game film. Some people will say they "watched the tape", but they mean they watched the TV coverage again, which isn't the same, so I can only go on what I know. And here is what I know.

 

A) Chris Kelsay is not a high sack guy. He never has been as a DE, and through 3 games as an OLB, he hasn't sniffed the QB, so it's reasonable to assume he isn't going to turn into Lamar Woodley or Clay Matthews off the edge.

 

Ok, that's fine. Those guys don't just grow on trees.

 

B) Kelsay is a liability in coverage. The guy was relatively slow for a DE to begin with, and now as an Strongside OLB in a 3-4 set up, he is going to be forced to cover TE's, RB's out of the backfield and occassionally WR's ( watch the Packers game when he lined up on Driver). Look at our division. Dustin Keller, Aaron Hernandez and Fasano. That's a mismatch waiting to happen.

 

So, now we have an OLB in the 3-4 who can't rush the passer and can't be relied upon in coverage. So.....I'm not really understanding his value here. Kelsay is a solid guy, and a reliable player who rarely misses a start, but I thought the transition to the 3-4 was the writting on the wall for the end of his days in Buffalo. For his contributions, I figured they would let him play out his current (overpaid) contract, and then wash their hands. Now, he is here for the next 4 seasons.

 

So, let's look at some more "facts"

 

In the NFL, you don't pay someone 24 million dollars to ride the bench. So, for the next 4 years, Chris Kelsay, who is only going to get slower and older, is going to be one of our starting OLBs for that time. Look at the elite 3-4 teams, and tell me if they have a Chris Kelsay type as their OLB. Be honest with yourself. The answer is no.

 

There's just not a lot to like about this deal at all.

[Green Lightning]

I understand a lot of the points you made, but here is why I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

1) none of us are priveleged to watching game film. Some people will say they "watched the tape", but they mean they watched the TV coverage again, which isn't the same, so I can only go on what I know. And here is what I know.

 

 

How much "game film" do you need to see of him lugging ten yards behind a tight end running free with a catch or never coming close to the QB on a rush? Jesus use your eyes and head...he's not a OLB and will never be.

 

To Caveman - good point on the nature of the contract, but it'is still too rich for what we are getting.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

 

 

2.) I hate as much as anyone that he is asked to drop into coverage. This is to the fault of the DC, and we can only hope it will change once they get a respectable LB that can cover TEs. For the time being, Bryan Scott is sadly our answer. Is he a pass covering LB? not at all. He is, however, an everydown player who reacts well and diagnoses plays. His weakness is, and will be, speed. If the DC continues to use him in positions as a stand up 3-4 outside backer that is used to rush the passer and contain RBs, he will be a solid, every down player. However, if he is used at anypoint inthe future to COVER a TE or a RB out in the flat, then shame on them. Note - The bills under Jauron were NOTORIOUS for placing Schobel and Kelsay and Denny back in coverage positions. this made no sense then and makes no sense now.

 

 

 

He is asked to drop into coverage because the OC of the opposing team is purposely going to his side. That's not the DC's fault. You can't switch the LB's from side to side before the snap. This unfortunately is going to go on for as long as Kelsay is an OLB. Not much the DC can do about that, except to keep putting in Nickel and Dime packages in, which they have been doing.

[dayman]

He is asked to drop into coverage because the OC of the opposing team is purposely going to his side. That's not the DC's fault. You can't switch the LB's from side to side before the snap. This unfortunately is going to go on for as long as Kelsay is an OLB. Not much the DC can do about that, except to keep putting in Nickel and Dime packages in, which they have been doing.

 

They can:

 

1) Send him

2) Play nickle/dime packages where he can be on the line

3) Limit his responsibilities in space (when he has to be) by the zone scheme

 

They cannot:

 

1) Leave him in a huge space by himself

2) Leave him in man

[tbonestake]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/9/30/1722305/chris-kelsay-contract-details-lb-gets-10-raise

 

Details of the deal

[dayman]

My God Maybin is singed though 2014! Holy hell...

 

And yea the more you hear about this deal...the more and more reasonable it becomes.

[BillsVet]

If you think DE is a "hole" on this team, then you must have missed the memo about us switching to the 3-4. DE is NOT a hole.

 

LB on the other hand, tremendous hole. We were light at the position last year, and then opted for a system that puts an extra body out there.

 

Whether or not you believe the team is in a rebuilding phase, you cannot deny that the DEFENSE most certainly is being built from the ground up.

 

But one place where we actually do have a solid foundation--in addition to the DB's--is DE.

 

Really? Marcus Stroud has all but been put on the missing persons list although Dwan Edwards is decent to good. Unfortunately, the defense is among the league's worst against the run. And, in passing situations they play guys like Ellison and Bryan Scott at LB to make Kelsay play DE where he gets no push whatsoever.

 

Kelsay will play a lot more 43DE than 34OLB if games continue the way they have.

 

Ironically, people bashed guys like Fletcher because the team overall was bad against the run (140rypga in 06). I see now we're excusing a guy who happens to play in a bad defense proving once again it's a unit issue, not one guy.

[dave mcbride]

Really? Marcus Stroud has all but been put on the missing persons list although Dwan Edwards is decent to good. Unfortunately, the defense is among the league's worst against the run. And, in passing situations they play guys like Ellison and Bryan Scott at LB to make Kelsay play DE where he gets no push whatsoever.

 

Kelsay will play a lot more 43DE than 34OLB if games continue the way they have.

 

Ironically, people bashed guys like Fletcher because the team overall was bad against the run (140rypga in 06). I see now we're excusing a guy who happens to play in a bad defense proving once again it's a unit issue, not one guy.

Stroud is hurt; I wouldn't read too much into it. He's a good player.

 

Funny that you mention Fletcher - a solid-not-great player who is extremely durable. Sounds like Kelsay.

 

Btw, the guaranteed money appears to be $2.4 million ( http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/9/30/1722305/chris-kelsay-contract-details-lb-gets-10-raise ). Chump change, as it were ...

[BADOLBILZ]

but if you are going ot make remarks about "all OLBs are fast" then you better get a look at the "unsung" OLBs in great 3-4s across the league...

 

Kelsay is not unsung. He is just TERRIBLE at OLB.

 

He can't rush the passer, which is job #1 for a 3-4 OLB.

 

He can't play the run in space, which is job #2. He's been getting killed on the edge this season. It's ugly. But you gotta' love hearing how good he is in run defense after being probably the worst run defense team in the league over the past 5 seasons.

 

And he is a joke in pass coverage. Who is he really going to cover? I guess the 3 man front needs to apply the pass pressure in this 3-4.

 

On the bright side, he's only 31. Mike Vrabel didn't hit decline rapidly until he was 32, so there is all kinds of time for the hybrid Kelsay to make his mark.

 

And you really need to look at your unsung types. Those guys are better players than Kelsay(obviously), but they are also interchangeable parts on those defenses. They would be sent packing before they received that money at age 31 from those teams. Not even a second thought.

[dave mcbride]

Kelsay is not unsung. He is just TERRIBLE at OLB.

 

He can't rush the passer, which is job #1 for a 3-4 OLB.

 

He can't play the run in space, which is job #2. He's been getting killed on the edge this season. It's ugly. But you gotta' love hearing how good he is in run defense after being probably the worst run defense team in the league over the past 5 seasons.

 

And he is a joke in pass coverage. Who is he really going to cover? I guess the 3 man front needs to apply the pass pressure in this 3-4.

 

On the bright side, he's only 31. Mike Vrabel didn't hit decline rapidly until he was 32, so there is all kinds of time for the hybrid Kelsay to make his mark.

 

And you really need to look at your unsung types. Those guys are better players than Kelsay(obviously), but they are also interchangeable parts on those defenses. They would be sent packing before they received that money at age 31 from those teams. Not even a second thought.

Oh come on. He's not terrible, and you know it. He's not great, but he's certainly average. I'd also hold off passing judgment until later in the season regarding his ability to play the 3-4. You may end up being right - and I'll eat crow if need be - but talk about leaping to conclusions. Your man London Fletcher also struggled mightily against Brady and co. too.

[K Gun Special]

Oh come on. He's not terrible, and you know it. He's not great, but he's certainly average. I'd also hold off passing judgment until later in the season regarding his ability to play the 3-4. You may end up being right - and I'll eat crow if need be - but talk about leaping to conclusions. Your man London Fletcher also struggled mightily against Brady and co. too.

 

Hes not terrible but hes average.

 

Still i have yet to see a comparable OLB get his kind of money; unless the goal is to lock him up with almost no guaranteed $$ until they find a replacement i dont see how this is a good move.