Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Donahoe did a few good things: 2001 draft: Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements 2003 draft: Terrence McGee 2005 UDFA: Jason peters And plenty of bad: 2002 draft: Mike Williams 2004 draft: Willis McGahee (big gamble) 2005 draft: JP Losman Take a minute and look at the Bills drafts under Donahoe. They were abysmal. We complain about the lack of good draft picks? Well that started with Ol' Whitey. 80% of the players he picked were out of the league in 2 seasons. So Mort has some bizarre standards if he thinks his white-haired boyfriend was doing a good job. PTR Quick: Donohoe or DickLevyBrandon? I think there's no debate.
ganesh Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 As painful as it makes me to say this, but the players drafted on Day 1 & FAs brought in during TD's regime have contributed much more to the team and are better players than after he had left. His biggest mistakes were a wild chase after the franchise QB and the coaching misfires. But overall, yes Bills as a team were in better shape.... And his dislike for drafting OL or DL in the top rounds of the draft.
Gabe Northern Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Gee, wonder who he's referring to there? More evidence that Overdorf and Littman are continuing to run this team into the ground. Everyone out there knows it except for a small band of misguided faithful here at TBD... BLOW Brandon Littman Overdorf Wilson
Buftex Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I agree with Mort. I think this franchise would be in far better shape today if TD had been left alone. Sure, he made some bad moves, but he never overpaid schlock like Dockery, Walker, etc. And, I do think that Buffalo had a much more solid franchise, before he was banished.
ganesh Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 It still pains me that Pat Williams (and not to mention Winfield) is still such an effective player in this league even though Donahoe felt so strongly that he was "on the wrong side of 30" and refused to sign him. I could definitely understand the business decision (though not the football decision). The Bills were in Cap hell and did not want to get into a cap mess immediately.
Gabe Northern Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Ralph just needed to give TD another 5 years. Darn those "Ralph Whisperers!" And why bring up Butler? The man died 2 years after leaving, put the Bills in cap hell, had a horrible last draft with the Bills, was the one who traded for RJ, and liked Leaf over Manning. AJ Smith and Nix when he was still in his working years came along with that package. That was a nice front office.
Gabe Northern Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 overselling TD has not helped Mort's credibility whatsoever... Great point. The thing that kills me as a Bills fan was that the choice was between TD, whom I despised, and letting marketing/accounting guys run the team. It was like the Jason Peters situation: Either overpay this extremely talented but unmotivated malcontent $25 million guaranteed, or enjoy watching your team try to compete with a turnstile playing LT. Such crap.
Like A Mofo Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I agree with Mort. I think this franchise would be in far better shape today if TD had been left alone. Sure, he made some bad moves, but he never overpaid schlock like Dockery, Walker, etc. And, I do think that Buffalo had a much more solid franchise, before he was banished. Sad as it is, I never thought I would agree with this, but now I do.
BuffaloWings Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Fair enough... I think the problem with Mort, and the reason he gets such major backlash here, has been his inability to admit TD's obvious mistakes...Mort comes off as an overprotective mother hen...Instead of saying that TD made some major mistakes, but at least he made some good decisions too...Mort seems to just get too worked up about the whole deal...It's quite obvious that TD has REALLY bad mouthed RW to Mort...I mean...It sounds to me like TD has presented RW as the devil incarnate to Mort...And who knows...Maybe Ralph is that bad...But overselling TD has not helped Mort's credibility whatsoever...He may very well be right about a lot of things concerning the Bills and RW...But he needs to put aside his friendship for TD and stop making excuses...TD was better than what came after him no question...But he was far from perfect either...FAR from perfect... Not just that, really. You said it - he's overselling Donahoe. He'll give credit to Donahoe every chance he gets, which is on every chat or SportsCenter segment. He jumps on it every time something good is talked about Buffalo and finds a way to relate it to TD.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Quick: Donohoe or DickLevyBrandon? I think there's no debate. Seriously??? Could you compare the 2006-2009 drafts to Donahoe's 2001-2005 run? If anything they are comparable. PTR
BuffaloWings Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I agree with Mort. I think this franchise would be in far better shape today if TD had been left alone. Sure, he made some bad moves, but he never overpaid schlock like Dockery, Walker, etc. And, I do think that Buffalo had a much more solid franchise, before he was banished. TD did get the Bills out of cap jail, after all. 2001 was difficult to go through, but it needed to be done. That's about all I gave him credit for. His drafts went for the flashy player (Parrish, McGahee) instead of what they needed (OL or DL). I know people bash him for the Mike Williams thing, but did anyone at the time think that drafting MW was a bad move? They had the #4 pick and needed an offensive lineman.
Cash Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/34627/nfl-with-chris-mortensen Jeff (Atlanta, GA) Long suffering Buffalo Bills fan. Any light at the end of the tunnel Chris? We might be the...GASP...worst team in the NFL right now...even worse than the Raiders. What do they need to address? Chris Mortensen (12:07 PM) The owner and the people who whisper in his ear need to just back off and let his football people do their job. Ralph Wilson Jr is in the Hall of fame because of what he did in the 60s and I do believe his loyalty to Buffalo is admirable. But he fired Bill Polian and John Butler couldn't wait to get out of there. And there were a lot of good things Tom Donahoe was doing, and could have continued doing, if he had been left alone. I know those aren't popular words but the best hope now is give GM Buddy Nix and HC Chan Gailey the resources and leave them alone! Gee, wonder who he's referring to there? More evidence that Overdorf and Littman are continuing to run this team into the ground. Everyone out there knows it except for a small band of misguided faithful here at TBD... This was the first Mort quote I've seen that didn't come off as having an axe to grind for firing his buddy Donahoe. Most national pundits wouldn't entertain the notion that Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey are the right football people to drag a team out of the cellar. But Mort suggests that if they're left to their own devices, the team will be fine. And there's not a whole lot of vitriol directed at Ralph. There's no disputing the sentence about Polian & Butler, and that can't be swept under the rug. And even Mort's pro-Donahoe comment seems to recognize that Donahoe was doing a bad job by the end, even if Mort doesn't come out and say it. There's a big difference between saying "there were a lot of good things Donahoe... could have continued doing if he had been left alone," versus saying "there were a lot of good things Donahoe... could have continued doing if he hadn't been fired." Between this and some of the recent Overdorf stuff that's appeared in the Buffalo News (cutting Troy Vincent without the coaches knowing, for example), I wonder if Kelsay's extension was a Ralph and/or Overdorf move, and maybe Nix/Gailey had nothing to do with it. I also don't know which is worse: having an incompetent GM, or having a competent GM whose decisions are overruled by his incompetent bosses.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Great point. The thing that kills me as a Bills fan was that the choice was between TD, whom I despised, and letting marketing/accounting guys run the team. It was like the Jason Peters situation: Either overpay this extremely talented but unmotivated malcontent $25 million guaranteed, or enjoy watching your team try to compete with a turnstile playing LT. Such crap. Donahoe, who was President of the organization, made some comments to the effect that people would not believe the interference and roadblocks that were thrown up in front of him. A lot of fans blew it of then as sour grapes and as something they didn't want to hear, but if it is truthful, how can anyone come to any other conclusion than the organization is hopelessly dysfunctional?
Peevo Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I'm in the very small minority that actually thinks we might have been better off with Donahoe than without him. I know this sounds crazy, but he is the last executive to field a winning team. Hell, even a .500 team. He's the last executive to field a top 10 unit of any significance. I believe the Bills defense was 3rd overall in 2003 and 2nd overall in 2004, I could be wrong, but I know they were very high. How about his ability to find undrafted talent? Jason Peters is the last Bill to be voted to the Pro Bowl. Jabari Greer is a great cover corner for the Saints. His first couple drafts weren't bad either: Nate Clements, Aaron Schobel, Travis Henry, and Jonas Jennings all were taken in the same draft, and all were very productive for the Bills. Yes, he had his notoriously bad misses - Mike Williams, Losman, Bledsoe, McGahee, but I believe he felt the pressure to win was so great he never truly set out a plan to rebuild a team from the ground up. That may have been his biggest flaw. Its strange how he could find talent in later rounds but reach so bad in the earlier, and supposedly easier rounds. My buddy read a book about building an NFL franchise, and Donahoe is quoted a lot in it. He took over a team that had devoted 30 million dollars to players that weren't even on the team anymore. I'm no CPA, but that's some terrible bookkeeping by the previous administration.
Cash Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 TD did get the Bills out of cap jail, after all. 2001 was difficult to go through, but it needed to be done. That's about all I gave him credit for. His drafts went for the flashy player (Parrish, McGahee) instead of what they needed (OL or DL). I know people bash him for the Mike Williams thing, but did anyone at the time think that drafting MW was a bad move? They had the #4 pick and needed an offensive lineman. I had been harping on drafting Bryant McKinnie for months before the draft, and I wasn't the only one. McKinnie was generally considered the #1 O-line prospect that year, and a natural LT. Williams was the consensus #2 prospect, and it was widely believed that he would be able to transition from playing RT in college to LT in the pros. That was wrong, of course, but even without the benefit of hindsight, it was a questionable pick. The plan was to play Williams at RT for a few years until he could make the move to LT. Even at the time, a bunch of people questioned the wisdom of spending the #4 overall pick on a right tackle, even if you expect him to eventually play left tackle.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Seriously??? Could you compare the 2006-2009 drafts to Donahoe's 2001-2005 run? If anything they are comparable. PTR Okay I am replying to my own post. I looked at the 2006-2009 drafts and there is no question every year except '09 was a dud. Would you consider Kyle Williams, Marshawn Lynch and Poz useful players because that's all we got in that stretch. So Donahoe was marginally better than what came after...note: marginally better. PTR
LABills08 Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Seriously??? Could you compare the 2006-2009 drafts to Donahoe's 2001-2005 run? If anything they are comparable. PTR Yea. They are. Sadly. I don't think you can underestimate how big of a role whiffing on Mike Williams and JP Losman played in setting the Bills back.
Punch Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I could definitely understand the business decision (though not the football decision). The Bills were in Cap hell and did not want to get into a cap mess immediately. The Bills were definitely not in cap hell when they decided to not re-sign Big Pat. They had already added London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy, and Troy Vincent from 2002-2004 to the defense alone via free agency. Even if they couldn't technically afford it at the time he hit FA the decision to not extend him when they had the chance is the mistake to which I'm referring. Using Williams' age as the reason was especially odd considering Adams was even older than Pat; there was definitely a feeling at the time that Donahoe was simply purging the roster of the previous regime's players in favor of his own acquisitions.
dwight in philly Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 (edited) i think donahoe should have stayed also. he did not kiss the buffalo media's a$$ and wound up getting a bad reputation as a result. a great deal of fans were swayed because the media perception of him was fostered upon the fans. i think his two major problems were : he never hit on the coaches and picked johnson over flutie. he could still be here based on his accomplishments, but too many variables (pressure from the media) contributed to his being in a place where ralph pulled the plug on him, which was unjustified. Edited September 29, 2010 by dwight in philly
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