Bob DiCesare article...

[DrDawkinstein]

FINALLY! some logic, reason, and sanity

[Sisyphean Bills]

Man, i miss the reggie ball days at GT. Nothing like watching Ball go 8-30 for 258 yards (all to calvin johnson) with 3 TDs and 3 picks. Jamar Nesbitt is well on his way however, after his beautiful 5-18 performance this past weekend.

As an FSU fan, I don't doubt it.

 

Oh, and comparing Nesbitt's numbers in the offense he is running to the so-called pro-style offense that Ball was trying to run (when he wasn't stepping on his Wang) is utterly ridiculous.

[thewildrabbit]

Perhaps you did not read the stats I quoted. In 2009, against the same team that we played first this year, Trent threw 3 interceptions and Fitz threw one. We won the game Fitz started and lost the one with Trent at the helm. Against the same team this year, Fitz threw no interceptions but managed less yards and no more than 10 points. Again, we lost.

To this latest part, I say yes the first INT was totally Fitz fault but I can use the same excuse you are using for Trent - Nelson could have made a better attempt to catch or break up the INT. I am no fan of Fitz as a long term solution - my point simply is that at this point in their career and with the personnel that the Bills have Fitz is much more likely to keep us competitive. He will keep the opposing defenses honest which allows the coashes (as Jay said in another post) to independently evaluate the rest of the O.

You are correct I didn't read it. I'll still take Edwards as he will throw less INT's

 

Career TE 25 TD's 27 INT's 14-16

Career Fitz 23 TD's 29 INT's 8-14-1

 

Neither have great stats, but Edwards is in his prime at this point in his career, and it irks the living crap outta me that he had to play 3 years for morons with no real coaching, behind crap O lines and for rookie OC's.... he finally gets a decent offensive mind to coach him and the guy gives up after only 2 games

[CodeMonkey]

Think I'll take Edwards, he didn't throw 2 INT's to lose the game, one in the opponents end zone and the second with 5 min to go in the game. Those 2 INT's weren't like the ones Edwards threw in Green bay that skipped off the receivers hands and were deflections.

 

Fitz threw those right to the opposing team, its what he does. He did it all last season and he will do it again this season, it won't be long before we hear the chants for Brian Brohm.

Agreed on all counts. I for one would like to see Brohm sooner rather than later. Fitz is a well know commodity and if Gailey hasn't figured him out yet then God help the Bills the next few years. I would like to see what, if anything, Brohm can bring to the table. My only reservation is not wanting him to accumulate concussions along the way.

[DrDawkinstein]

You are correct I didn't read it. I'll still take Edwards as he will throw less INT's

 

Career TE 25 TD's 27 INT's 14-16

Career Fitz 23 TD's 29 INT's 8-14-1

 

Neither have great stats, but Edwards is in his prime at this point in his career, and it irks the living crap outta me that he had to play 3 years for morons with no real coaching, behind crap O lines and for rookie OC's.... he finally gets a decent offensive mind to coach him and the guy gives up after only 2 games

 

what does it say about Edwards that a guy like Gailey, who has seen it all and has worked with so many QBs, saw all he needed to in those 2 games?

 

i trust Gailey's opinion about a QB over almost anyone else around, and at least on this team. if he made the decision that Trent was going to be benched and that we wanted to move on (as Gailey put it "didn't want to go backwards"), then that is enough for me.

 

Agreed on all counts. I for one would like to see Brohm sooner rather than later. Fitz is a well know commodity and if Gailey hasn't figured him out yet then God help the Bills the next few years. I would like to see what, if anything, Brohm can bring to the table. My only reservation is not wanting him to accumulate concussions along the way.

 

Ive predicted that we'll see Brohm starting by week 8, if not after the Bye. he will get his chance to be evaluated.

[All_Pro_Bills]

I was pulling for Edwards but he lost me at the end of the Miami game where he had 7 opportunities (3 from the 1, and 4 from the 20) to complete a pass, get a couple first downs, and give the team a chance (however remote it was) to tie the game.

 

What did he do? Throw the ball away, a couple check down and short throw attempts. 4th and 10. Throw the damn ball down the field. It gets intercepted? So what, you lose anyway. You think the players in the offensive huddle had any confidence or respect for Trent after that event?

 

We know the O-line is a deficiency but I'll wager you put any NFL quarterback behind a solid line and he'll perform effectively. But the fact is the QB doesn't always get to play under ideal conditions and it's those plays under pressure and how you act and re-act that generally determine the outcome of a game.

 

The bottom line, 'this dog just won't hunt'. IMO, the timing can be questioned but the move was the right move.

[wardigital]

You are correct I didn't read it. I'll still take Edwards as he will throw less INT's

 

Career TE 25 TD's 27 INT's 14-16

Career Fitz 23 TD's 29 INT's 8-14-1

 

Neither have great stats, but Edwards is in his prime at this point in his career, and it irks the living crap outta me that he had to play 3 years for morons with no real coaching, behind crap O lines and for rookie OC's.... he finally gets a decent offensive mind to coach him and the guy gives up after only 2 games

 

The reason that Edwards has thrown two less interceptions is because he has completely given up on throwing the ball down field. His yardage per attempt and interceptions per game dropped nearly in half after the Monday Night Cleveland Game, but so too has his points production and completion percentage dropped.

 

Also, career numbers are an unfair portrayal of player's in the National Football League, because the league is so system-based. What Fitzpatrick did in St. Louis or Cincy is nothing like what he has done here, and what Edwards has done here is nothing like what he will do in Jacksonville. Instead, the numbers that need to be compared are those from when Fitz and Edwards were both on the same team, in the same systems. Within those walls, Fitzpatrick is profoundly better.

Edited September 29, 2010 by wardigital

[BobChalmers]

Perhaps you did not read the stats I quoted. In 2009, against the same team that we played first this year, Trent threw 3 interceptions and Fitz threw one. We won the game Fitz started and lost the one with Trent at the helm. Against the same team this year, Fitz threw no interceptions but managed less yards and no more than 10 points. Again, we lost.

To this latest part, I say yes the first INT was totally Fitz fault but I can use the same excuse you are using for Trent - Nelson could have made a better attempt to catch or break up the INT. I am no fan of Fitz as a long term solution - my point simply is that at this point in their career and with the personnel that the Bills have Fitz is much more likely to keep us competitive. He will keep the opposing defenses honest which allows the coashes (as Jay said in another post) to independently evaluate the rest of the O.

 

You can pick one game or another - I only started with the Pats because that's the big success Random Fitz is supposed to have just had.

 

Also - between last year and this, New England's defense got worse, and Miami's defense got better. This is known from their performances against other teams this year.

 

Miami promptly followed the win over us with an almost identical score against Brett Favre and the Vikings - sort of a HoF version of Fits, surrounded by better players.

 

It's really not a hard comparison - Fits had a QB rating of 69.7 last season. Trent had a 73.8.

 

All the fans getting excited about how Fits "inspires the offense" or whatever aren't remembering the same games I am when I saw him lead us to one 3-and-out after another BECAUSE HE CAN'T HIT THE TARGET.

 

Cutting Trent is fine if he wasn't doing what Gailey was telling him to do in the pre-snap or whatever.

 

And the broader point you make - that because there are other problems on the offense - Fitz is a better choice in the short term may well be right. Please just don't forget the difference in the defenses of the three teams we faced, and revisit after Fitz tries to heave it up randomly against the Jets.

 

And, btw - you should all know I will be on here eating crow with a fork and knife and liking it if Fitz looks good Sunday.

Edited September 29, 2010 by BobChalmers

[wardigital]

I can hear Jerry Sullivan barking about this article in the news room, all the way from Texas.

[thewildrabbit]

You can pick one game or another - I only started with the Pats because that's the big success Random Fitz is supposed to have just had.

 

Also - between last year and this, New England's defense got worse, and Miami's defense got better. This is known from their performances against other teams this year.

 

Miami promptly followed the win over us with an almost identical score against Brett Favre and the Vikings - sort of a HoF version of Fits, surrounded by better players.

 

It's really not a hard comparison - Fits had a QB rating of 69.7 last season. Trent had a 73.8.

 

All the fans getting excited about how Fits "inspires the offense" or whatever aren't remembering the same games I am when I saw him lead us to one 3-and-out after another BECAUSE HE CAN'T HIT THE TARGET.

 

Cutting Trent is fine if he wasn't doing what Gailey was telling him to do in the pre-snap or whatever.

 

And the broader point you make - that because there are other problems on the offense - Fitz is a better choice in the short term may well be right. Please just don't forget the difference in the defenses of the three teams we faced, and revisit after Fitz tries to heave it up randomly against the Jets.

 

And, btw - you should all know I will be on here eating crow with a fork and knife and liking it if Fitz looks good Sunday.

As will I, but only if he wins the game

 

Hey, WTH knows perhaps if Gailey can coach someone up it will be Fitz, just maybe Gailey will go over the film with Fitz and get him to settle down on those important throws

 

 

Like I stated in the eariler post, it really bugs me that Edwards has had to deal with constantly changing staff of coaching fools in his last 3 years, he finally gets a decent offensive mind and the guy gives up on him after only two games, as bad as he played in those two games I still think he could be developed to play better, JMO

 

Look at Mike Vick this year, someone who was never a pocket passer and everyone always talked about his great physical abilities but he just wasn't accurate in the pocket, bad footwork blah blah blah. Now look what Andy Reid has done with the guy, he is turning into a great pocket passer

[wardigital]

You can pick one game or another - I only started with the Pats because that's the big success Random Fitz is supposed to have just had.

 

Also - between last year and this, New England's defense got worse, and Miami's defense got better. This is known from their performances against other teams this year.

 

Miami promptly followed the win over us with an almost identical score against Brett Favre and the Vikings - sort of a HoF version of Fits, surrounded by better players.

 

It's really not a hard comparison - Fits had a QB rating of 69.7 last season. Trent had a 73.8.

 

All the fans getting excited about how Fits "inspires the offense" or whatever aren't remembering the same games I am when I saw him lead us to one 3-and-out after another BECAUSE HE CAN'T HIT THE TARGET.

 

Cutting Trent is fine if he wasn't doing what Gailey was telling him to do in the pre-snap or whatever.

 

And the broader point you make - that because there are other problems on the offense - Fitz is a better choice in the short term may well be right. Please just don't forget the difference in the defenses of the three teams we faced, and revisit after Fitz tries to heave it up randomly against the Jets.

 

And, btw - you should all know I will be on here eating crow with a fork and knife and liking it if Fitz looks good Sunday.

 

Quarterback Rating relies heavily on Completion Percentage, which does not indicate the degree to which Edwards attempts were limited or the offense was shortened under him.

 

Take, for instance, that your QB rating will be higher if you are 4 of 5 for 8 yards, throwing 4 2-yard passes, then if you are 1 for 5 for 10 yards, throwing 1 10-yard pass. But one gets you closer to the end zone than the other.

Edited September 29, 2010 by wardigital

[thewildrabbit]

The reason that Edwards has thrown two less interceptions is because he has completely given up on throwing the ball down field. His yardage per attempt and interceptions per game dropped nearly in half after the Monday Night Cleveland Game, but so too has his points production and completion percentage dropped.

 

Also, career numbers are an unfair portrayal of player's in the National Football League, because the league is so system-based. What Fitzpatrick did in St. Louis or Cincy is nothing like what he has done here, and what Edwards has done here is nothing like what he will do in Jacksonville. Instead, the numbers that need to be compared are those from when Fitz and Edwards were both on the same team, in the same systems. Within those walls, Fitzpatrick is profoundly better.

Baloney.... 4-4 isn't profoundly better then 14-16

 

Lets talk coaching, Fitz had Mike Martz at St Louis to teach him, then he had Marvin Lewis as his HC and the same OC who was in Cincy teaching QB Carson Palmer.

 

Look at who has been coaching Edwards his 3 years in Buffalo, Steve Fairchild his first OC, Turk Schonert his second OC, AVP his 3rd OC in as many years. 3 years in the league and 3 different coordinators and one moron for a HC

 

Look at the overall won / lost record, by all accounts Fitz should be way better then Edwards, he isn't

[Green Lightning]

Baloney.... 4-4 isn't profoundly better then 14-16

 

Lets talk coaching, Fitz had Mike Martz at St Louis to teach him, then he had Marvin Lewis as his HC and the same OC who was in Cincy teaching QB Carson Palmer.

 

Look at who has been coaching Edwards his 3 years in Buffalo, Steve Fairchild his first OC, Turk Schonert his second OC, AVP his 3rd OC in as many years. 3 years in the league and 3 different coordinators and one moron for a HC

 

Look at the overall won / lost record, by all accounts Fitz should be way better then Edwards, he isn't

 

 

Have you watched any of the games with Trent at QB? Really or are you just stirring things up? It's hard to toss an INT when your repertoire consists of five yard dump offs...maybe a ten yarder underneeath when it's 4th and 20...oh and when it's time for a Hail Mary, you run out of bounds. I could give a rats *ss what the media says (DiCeasare has it right though - love to see Sully use reason and thought like Bob) I don't care how it was reported, or what they say about Chan...I only care that Trent is gone and we don't have to suffer one more effing game of him spitting up his Maypo instead of leading this team. I'll suffer the occasional INT. At least we were in the damnn game thanks to Fitz.

[Dr. K]

OMG

 

Because Fitz and the rest of the team were up against the Patriots' crappy defense and the first two weeks it was Miami and GB - two of the top 5 defenses in the league????

 

I really am blown away by folks not seeing something so obvious.

 

You may be right. I would guess that the Jets game, then, will help tell us whether or not you are. If the offense moves the ball, the o-line looks decent and Fitz completes some long ones and even scores, it might indicate that the QB change makes a difference.

[Sisyphean Bills]

You may be right. I would guess that the Jets game, then, will help tell us whether or not you are. If the offense moves the ball, the o-line looks decent and Fitz completes some long ones and even scores, it might indicate that the QB change makes a difference.

And what will happen around here if Fitz has a terrible day?

[BobChalmers]

You may be right. I would guess that the Jets game, then, will help tell us whether or not you are. If the offense moves the ball, the o-line looks decent and Fitz completes some long ones and even scores, it might indicate that the QB change makes a difference.

 

Agreed - as I said - if Fitz looks good, I'll have my knife and fork ready for anyone who wants to serve me the crow.

 

And I'll like it too, because it means I'll have a better team to watch thus justifying blowing my money on DirecTV yet again.

 

Take, for instance, that your QB rating will be higher if you are 4 of 5 for 8 yards, throwing 4 2-yard passes, then if you are 1 for 5 for 10 yards, throwing 1 10-yard pass. But one gets you closer to the end zone than the other.

 

Is that true? It also considers YPC I believe - though in what proportions I don't know.

 

I do know Fitz had a good rating this past week in spite of 2 INTs, and remember Losman was the 11th rated passer in the league his one good year - clearly on the basis of his many bombs to Evans.

 

And what will happen around here if Fitz has a terrible day?

 

That's easy - the BROHM-IDES will be out in force.

[thewildrabbit]

And what will happen around here if Fitz has a terrible day?

Fitz sucks...we want Brohm...we want Brohm...we want Brohm

[Fan in Chicago]

 

And the broader point you make - that because there are other problems on the offense - Fitz is a better choice in the short term may well be right. Please just don't forget the difference in the defenses of the three teams we faced, and revisit after Fitz tries to heave it up randomly against the Jets.

 

And, btw - you should all know I will be on here eating crow with a fork and knife and liking it if Fitz looks good Sunday.

 

Fair post, Bob. I just want some semblance of stability at the QB position. With Fitz that may mean that we have to live with 1-2 INTs per game. But in general if he puts up a lot more points, then it is up to the D to control the damage of those INTs (which the D did not do at all against the Pats*). I know this is a pretty pathetic way of game planning but we may have no other option this season.

[spartacus]

So, the definition of decisive is to spend all spring and summer evaluating tape and watching a guy in practice and focusing on the good things he had done deciding he was The Man going into the season even to the point that no new competition was brought in; and, then after two bad performances in the new offense against a pair of good NFL defenses, games where the coach himself admitted he made some mistakes in his game plan, to bench him and then cut him before the "bye" week.  How do you go from spending months with a guy trying to coach him up to making a decision in a week that you never want to work with the guy again and not even as a disaster QB?

 

You know, I remember another regime change in Buffalo not so long ago that came in to a situation with a huge QB issue and they made a decision within a week or so (quite quickly) of taking the job as to which QB they were going with and let the other one go.  Half (more?) the fans were pissed by the decision and the move didn't really work out, not that any QB moves in recent memory in Buffalo have worked out but that's another story.  I wonder if they had kept Flutie, let the controversy continue to rage all off-season, and then cut Rob Johnson (or vice versa) after 2 games if people would be saying that Gregg Williams and Tom Donahoe had been decisive.

 

Chan may have decided to bench Trent, but I believe Overdorf is the one who cut him to save some bucks - just like he cut loose Walker when he didn't shine at LT