Cost of Bush Tax Cuts

[Doc]

Am I reading this right?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gop

 

Perhaps the biggest difference was on taxes, where Republicans want to extend all of George W. Bush's income tax cuts permanently — at a cost of some $4 trillion over 10 years.

 

Democrats are proposing to keep the rates where they are for individuals making up to $200,000 and for families earning up to $250,000 — but to hit wealthier individuals and some small businesses with tax hikes in January. Their plan would cost $3 trillion.

So keeping the tax cuts for the middle class (the poor don't pay taxes) would cost $3T, while keeping the cuts for everyone would cost $1T more? And is the $200,000/$250,000 cutoff for being "rich" accurate? I don't buy it.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Doc

[....lybob]

Am I reading this right?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gop

 

 

So keeping the tax cuts for the middle class (the poor don't pay taxes) would cost $3T, while keeping the cuts for everyone would cost $1T more? And is the $200,000/$250,000 cutoff for being "rich" accurate? I don't buy it.

Those numbers are close but not exactly what I've been reading- 780bil for income over $200,000/$250,000 and 2.7trillion income under that over ten years- as for the poor don't pay tax lets be a little more specific, a single person doesn't pay fed tax on income under $9,000 and state income under $7,500, if over $9,000 is your definition of where middle-class starts let me congratulate you on your inclusiveness.

[Magox]

Those numbers are close but not exactly what I've been reading- 780bil for income over $200,000/$250,000 and 2.7trillion income under that over ten years- as for the poor don't pay tax lets be a little more specific, a single person doesn't pay fed tax on income under $9,000 and state income under $7,500, if over $9,000 is your definition of where middle-class starts let me congratulate you on your inclusiveness.

Actually Lybob, after all deductions are tallied, close to 50% of all working citizens don't pay income taxes.

 

What's true is that the Tax Policy Center, a well-regarded think tank, calculated that 47% of Americans would owe no federal income taxes for 2009, up from the usual 38% who typically owe no income tax on April 15. Most still pay Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, sales taxes and property taxes (if they own any property).

 

So they're paying taxes, but the fact that 47% pay no federal income tax is nonetheless disturbing — not for what it says about the non-payers but for what it says about the nation's broken tax system and how hard it will be to fix it.

 

So the notion that the "rich" aren't pay their "fair share" is utterly ridiculous. My guess is if you polled registered Democrats of those who didn't end up paying income taxes for 2009, over 90% would have this ridiculous view.

 

Could it be because of the entitlement mentality?

[Dante]

Actually Lybob, after all deductions are tallied, close to 50% of all working citizens don't pay income taxes.

 

 

 

So the notion that the "rich" aren't pay their "fair share" is utterly ridiculous. My guess is if you polled registered Democrats of those who didn't end up paying income taxes for 2009, over 90% would have this ridiculous view.

 

Could it be because of the entitlement mentality?

Every leftist, fascist movement needs a scapegoat. In this case Obama and his cohorts are using the hackneyed class warfare technique.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Every leftist, fascist movement needs a scapegoat. In this case Obama and his cohorts are using the hackneyed class warfare technique.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Fascism is to the right or conservative side of the political spectrum. Not left.

[KD in CA]

I love how the gov't and media characterizes reducing taxes as a "cost", as if the money belonged to a few hundred criminals in Washington rather than the people who are paying it.

[/dev/null]

I love how the gov't and media characterizes reducing taxes as a "cost", as if the money belonged to a few hundred criminals in Washington rather than the people who are paying it.

 

That's right! The money doesn't belong to the government it belongs to the Federal Reserve who borrowed it from China

[Booster4324]

Actually Lybob, after all deductions are tallied, close to 50% of all working citizens don't pay income taxes.

 

 

 

So the notion that the "rich" aren't pay their "fair share" is utterly ridiculous. My guess is if you polled registered Democrats of those who didn't end up paying income taxes for 2009, over 90% would have this ridiculous view.

 

Could it be because of the entitlement mentality?

 

Good post, you managed to slam Doc more than Lybob though.

[Dante]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Fascism is to the right or conservative side of the political spectrum. Not left.

Any government system that wants absolute control of you. No matter what side its coming from

[PastaJoe]

Actually Lybob, after all deductions are tallied, close to 50% of all working citizens don't pay income taxes.

 

 

 

So the notion that the "rich" aren't pay their "fair share" is utterly ridiculous. My guess is if you polled registered Democrats of those who didn't end up paying income taxes for 2009, over 90% would have this ridiculous view.

 

Could it be because of the entitlement mentality?

 

 

No, it's the mentality that people who make over a quarter million dollars can absorb paying a higher percentage without significantly altering their lifestyle than someone just above the poverty line. Target tax cuts for the wealthy to directly creating American jobs and I'll buy it, but giving them a tax cut so they can invest in a company that moves jobs to China or India, no thanks. How's those Bush tax cuts for the wealthy been doing for creating American jobs in the past couple of years?

 

I love how when the poor ask the rich to contribute more, it's called class warfare. But when the rich exploit the poor for their own profits, it's good old American capitalism.

[Doc]

Good post, you managed to slam Doc more than Lybob though.

No he didn't. He clarified my "the poor don't pay taxes" comment. And the major point is that it's "costing" a ton of money to extend the tax cuts to the non-"rich," to the tune of $3T. Meaning it should be an all-or-nothing type of situation, since that $3T surely will help more than the $1T.

 

And I still disagree with the characterization of people who make more than $200K/$250K as being "rich."

Edited September 26, 2010 by Doc

[Booster4324]

No he didn't. He clarified my "the poor don't pay taxes" comment. And the major point is that it's "costing" a ton of money to extend the tax cuts to the non-"rich," to the tune of $3T. Meaning it should be an all-or-nothing type of situation, since that $3T surely will help more than the $1T.

 

And I still disagree with the characterization of people who make more than $200K/$250K as being "rich."

 

You said:

 

So keeping the tax cuts for the middle class (the poor don't pay taxes)

 

Which is clearly wrong. You were not off by a bit. Just flat out wrong. It really is that simple.

[Magox]

No, it's the mentality that people who make over a quarter million dollars can absorb paying a higher percentage without significantly altering their lifestyle than someone just above the poverty line. Target tax cuts for the wealthy to directly creating American jobs and I'll buy it, but giving them a tax cut so they can invest in a company that moves jobs to China or India, no thanks. How's those Bush tax cuts for the wealthy been doing for creating American jobs in the past couple of years?

I love how when the poor ask the rich to contribute more, it's called class warfare. But when the rich exploit the poor for their own profits, it's good old American capitalism.

Save your talking points for the lemmings...

 

If you really believe that the Bush Tax cuts had ANYTHING to do with the mess we are in today, then you're a blithering idiot.

[Doc]

You said:

 

Which is clearly wrong. You were not off by a bit. Just flat out wrong. It really is that simple.

If you say so.

[Alaska Darin]

Save your talking points for the lemmings...

 

If you really believe that the Bush Tax cuts had ANYTHING to do with the mess we are in today, then you're a blithering idiot.

He is a blithering idiot but citing that particular fact doesn't put him over the top anymore than a single sprinkle enhances an ice cream sundae.

[drnykterstein]

Actually Lybob, after all deductions are tallied, close to 50% of all working citizens don't pay income taxes.

 

 

 

So the notion that the "rich" aren't pay their "fair share" is utterly ridiculous. My guess is if you polled registered Democrats of those who didn't end up paying income taxes for 2009, over 90% would have this ridiculous view.

 

Could it be because of the entitlement mentality?

Something is surely wrong though, the large income gap compared to history is not encouraging.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148294/the_super-rich_get_richer%2C_and_everyone_else_is_going_down_the_drain/

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148236/15_shocking_facts_show_that_the_middle_class_is_being_wiped_out/

http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/enthusiasm-gap-5/

 

(also compared to history, the top tax brackets are at among their lowest levels)

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

 

 

Also that "the poor don't pay taxes" is one of the biggest lies going around this PPP forum these days. The poor pay plenty of taxes. A minimum of 10% of their income. The fun thing about being poor is likely this means you are not educated or cannot afford an accountant in order to properly figure out all of your tax breaks.

Edited September 27, 2010 by conner

[DC Tom]

Something is surely wrong though, the large income gap compared to history is not encouraging.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148294/the_super-rich_get_richer%2C_and_everyone_else_is_going_down_the_drain/

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148236/15_shocking_facts_show_that_the_middle_class_is_being_wiped_out/

http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/enthusiasm-gap-5/

 

(also compared to history, the top tax brackets are at among their lowest levels)

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

 

 

Also that "the poor don't pay taxes" is one of the biggest lies going around this PPP forum these days. The poor pay plenty of taxes. A minimum of 10% of their income. The fun thing about being poor is likely this means you are not educated or cannot afford an accountant in order to properly figure out all of your tax breaks.

 

 

Only you...

[Magox]

Something is surely wrong though, the large income gap compared to history is not encouraging.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148294/the_super-rich_get_richer%2C_and_everyone_else_is_going_down_the_drain/

http://www.alternet.org/economy/148236/15_shocking_facts_show_that_the_middle_class_is_being_wiped_out/

http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/enthusiasm-gap-5/

 

(also compared to history, the top tax brackets are at among their lowest levels)

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

 

 

Also that "the poor don't pay taxes" is one of the biggest lies going around this PPP forum these days. The poor pay plenty of taxes. A minimum of 10% of their income. The fun thing about being poor is likely this means you are not educated or cannot afford an accountant in order to properly figure out all of your tax breaks.

No you stupid ****, I said income taxes, those numbers were provided from the Non Partisan Tax Policy Center.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Magox

[TPS]

Save your talking points for the lemmings...

 

If you really believe that the Bush Tax cuts had ANYTHING to do with the mess we are in today, then you're a blithering idiot.

One can make the argument that tax cuts for the class of households that have a higher propensity to save out of income creates a greater pool of savings looking for financial investment opportunities. One can use this argument and provide evidence from the two experiments with supply-side tax cuts to show these experiments ended with speculative bubbles, financial crises and bailouts--the commercial real estate bubble and S&L crisis in the 1980s, and the most recent housing bubble and ensuing crisis.

 

With the exception of small business owners, increasing the "pool of savings" by tax cuts means an increased source of demand for financial assets which might indirectly influence real corporate investment, but more than likely won't, since new business investment is mainly a function of demand for its products (sales).

 

There is a logical case for PJ's argument AND evidence to support it, given two test cases.

[Peace]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Fascism is to the right or conservative side of the political spectrum. Not left.

 

Where's you get this? Fascism is not on a political spectrum that includes Dem and/or Republican. A Fascist leader can be either left or right. Fidel Castro, for example, is a Fascist, but is clearly a socialist and more similar to the left than right. Ditto for Mussolini.

 

Said another way, the trademark of fascism is severe governmental "control." The Dems and Reps both adopt government control to suit their means. And while many people object to the US government's control of many htings, we do not live in a fascist state.

 

The left coopted the word fascist and tries to associate it with "the man" on the right. But it's really not accurate, any more than when the right labels all leftists as "commie pinkos peace hippies." (Dem presidents ran both US World Wars.)

 

Also that "the poor don't pay taxes" is one of the biggest lies going around this PPP forum these days. The poor pay plenty of taxes. A minimum of 10% of their income. The fun thing about being poor is likely this means you are not educated or cannot afford an accountant in order to properly figure out all of your tax breaks.

 

I am one of Obama's boogeyman "rich," and I pay for an excellent accountant. Guess what: I pay a SHITLOAD in taxes.

 

No accountant gets you out of taxes. Believe that, not the other myths about how the rich can always find a way out of paying taxes.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Peace