Fixing the offensive line

[....lybob]

To the OP question, Marcus McNeil is still holding out and I suspect the Chargers want 2 arms and 2 legs for the guy.

 

The Bills could try and make a trade for him but I'll bet they would want the Bills 1st pick next year, and that pick might just be the franchise QB.

 

If I had Marcus McNeil on the line he would start at LT and Bell at RT

 

Everyone is stating they are so happy that Fitz is starting...I just don't see him having much success playing behind that line, then again the Pats D is nowhere near as good as Miami's or Green Bays

 

You got to give value to get value but I bet you could get him for our 2nd and Levitre

[Rob's House]

It would have been wise to review the waiver wire for quality backups or final cut tackles who might be an improvement over the pathetic losers we have STARTING here. God knows what OUR backups have to offer. I don't know why we didn't go out on a limb and get

Washington stashed Selvish Capers on their PS. He's a raw talent who at least has promise, which is more than I can say for Green.

[purple haze]

The interior guys aren't that bad its really the edges that collapses the pocket and can't get much push in the ground game.

 

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

Edited September 24, 2010 by purple haze

[TheChimp]

I'm with you, haze. I don't see a single guy on our O-Line who doesn't smack of 'backup', MAYBE Wood, but that's even a stretch. The entire line is swiss cheese.

[Dan]

Derek -

 

First, take a deep breath and realize that this team is more than an OL player away from making any deep runs into the playoffs.

 

Second, go through the depth charts on the rest of the league and try to locate a backup ("serviceable" as you call them) that are better than our front 5. Then, realize that other player to make an impact here should be heads and tails better than the player here.

 

Third, if that team has such a quality logjam at an OL position that the backup is so much better than what we have here do you think that the other team is going to just give him up for a low round draft pick?

 

This OL is hampered by a couple of things. New system, few impact players on the wings, defenses knowing that there are few weapons on the wings and will blitz to their hearts content.

 

But, realize this OL is starting to build a core of players that, yes right now, are getting run over. Once they there are some weapons on the edge they will remember the crap they went through will be more than happy to turn it around.

Holy crap! Pin this or something so we can put to end, once and for all, all these threads about trading Lynch for someone's OT.

 

Seriously... 2 beers for you.:beer:

 

/thread.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

With our O-Line being so bad and the rumor of trading lynch to gb for an offensive lineman, it got me thinking.

 

There are players that start on our line that would be lucky to be backups on other teams. Well, what about the reverse logic? Don't you think that there are some very serviceable backups out there for strong offensive lines that would be a large improvement over what we have? I have to think there are players that are backups that we could trade a later round pick for, and see immediate improvement, as well as depth. And definitely get a better value than someone we would have drafted in those picks.

 

I'm not saying I know who these people are, but just think of backups for teams like the ravens, titans, and chargers. Really strong lines.

 

Thoughts?

 

I had thoughts along similar lines and posted about them just after the roster cuts.

Some of the linemen I wondered about were at least brought in by other strong teams for a look-see.

Others were left alone, likely injury concerns.

I'm not sure any of them really caught on, so maybe our office is looking and not seeing

 

The thing is, O-line is a team position on a team sport.

They have to know the system and they have to "gel" and work together to be effective.

It's probably the hardest position to bring someone in mid-season and have them make an impact.

 

I also agree that a contender team is not likely to trade a true quality backup.

Quality depth is one of the hallmarks of a contender.

[PDaDdy]

PDaDdy - Do you really think this is true? Like I said to the original post, go through the depth charts and give me some. Then, I will believe you. I will agree that the "cash to the cap" is really hurting this team.

 

Neither of us can truly prove whether their are or aren't better back ups on other teams as they are rarely called into action unless starters go down. I guess I just can't believe that being a skilled offensive is that incredibly rare a talent to the point that there just aren't any sitting on someones bench. Remember, it only takes one RT on someones bench to be better than ours to make my statement true. It only takes one LT or C on someones bench to be better than our to make the statement true.

[thewildrabbit]

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

 

You guys gotta understand that the O line is exactly like a chain, and that a chain is only as good as its weakest link! The Biggest problems are at BOTH tackle positions and center, the two guards are both young and inexperienced and still growing and learning.

 

Cornell Green has to be THE worst tackle in the NFL and Bell isn't much better, when the Bills need them the most on 3rd and long they both fold like wet cardboard, serious issues with both those two!! Hangartner played with a bad back last season and it still might be bothering him, he is a career backup and shouldn't be starting and either should Green IMHO.

 

 

 

The best thing the Bills could do at this point is to trade some draft picks to SD for Marcus McNeil and start the guy at LT, move Bell to RT because I don't trust the guy to protect the QB's blindside as I've seen to many hits on the QB this year from that side. I'd move Wood to Center, Kraig Urbik to RG, Levitre to stay at LG and Green and Hangarter to backup. So the starting line should be McNeil LT-Levitre LG-Wood C-Urbik RG Bell RT and leave them there and let them gain continuity.

 

The Bills are also lacking a dominate blocking tight end. If I'm Chan Gailey I'd take the most athletic back up linemen and let him play tight end for blocking purposes, then maybe even throw at him now and again because nobody would ever expect him to be a receiver

[PDaDdy]

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

 

SPOT ON about the interior line. People are so happy and slapping each other on the back that we got rid of our probowl LT and started rebuilding the lines with the guards and singing the praises of these "studs".

 

The truth is they haven't done a damn thing yet. The interior of our line is mediocre at best. We sure as **** can't run inside and there is no pocket to speak of to step up into. I wish people would have worn those rose colored glasses when they looked at Peters play. A genuine star probowl LT we ran out of town was supposedly over rated but these "done nothing" guards and center are so great and awesome picks. If in time they even come close to the unwarranted hype and praise they receive we will really have something.

[Sisyphean Bills]

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

You're correct. The middle of the line is just as likely to get steamrolled as the outside is to shout "Olé!"

[chris heff]

With our O-Line being so bad and the rumor of trading lynch to gb for an offensive lineman, it got me thinking.

 

There are players that start on our line that would be lucky to be backups on other teams. Well, what about the reverse logic? Don't you think that there are some very serviceable backups out there for strong offensive lines that would be a large improvement over what we have? I have to think there are players that are backups that we could trade a later round pick for, and see immediate improvement, as well as depth. And definitely get a better value than someone we would have drafted in those picks.

 

I'm not saying I know who these people are, but just think of backups for teams like the ravens, titans, and chargers. Really strong lines.

 

Thoughts?

 

The Bills should make trades for draft picks, not players. Go thru the roster and count the players you would keep, 15 maybe 20. We need to rebuild thru the draft.

[yungmack]

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

Excellent post.

[Bill from NYC]

I am not sure, but I think Jeremy Trueblood is a UFA next season. I hope the Bills offer him a contract making him the highest paid RT in football history if that is what it takes to get him. Then, draft Ryan Mallett and look for a LT in round 2. Finish the above with WRs, LBs and interior blockers in later rounds.

 

There Sir, is a winning formula.

[Gabe Northern]

SPOT ON about the interior line. People are so happy and slapping each other on the back that we got rid of our probowl LT and started rebuilding the lines with the guards and singing the praises of these "studs".

 

The truth is they haven't done a damn thing yet. The interior of our line is mediocre at best. We sure as **** can't run inside and there is no pocket to speak of to step up into. I wish people would have worn those rose colored glasses when they looked at Peters play. A genuine star probowl LT we ran out of town was supposedly over rated but these "done nothing" guards and center are so great and awesome picks. If in time they even come close to the unwarranted hype and praise they receive we will really have something.

 

Such a great point.

 

Levitre doesn't look to be on par with Jerry Ostroski and Wood gets pushed around a bit much for a guard taken at 28 overall. Maybe it was the right move to get rid of Peters, but you can't make that case based on the play of our guards.

 

This is the BIGGEST UNTRUTH that Bills fans continue to tell themselves. The pocket is behind the interior Oline guys. Watch

some of those sacks that are gotten from D-ends and OLB's and see if the QB could step up and avoid them. That's what

they are supposed to be able to do. How often do they not step up because there's too much pressure up the middle, then the

pressure off the edge has an easier time getting the sack.

 

ALL of these interior guys get their lunch taken every game. They have trouble up the middle just as much as around the ends.

Watch the games closely. The Bills can improve everywhere on the line including G and C. I don't know why people insist that

Wood, Levitre and Hangartner are somehow miraculously opening up holes that the OT's are messing up. Hangartner gets bullied,

pushed around and driven back often. I don't know if he even makes the right calls during the game based on the inability of the line

to handle any type of pressure. Levitre gets bossed too. And Wood takes his lumps. He's okay, but far from the stud everybody wants

to call him.

 

In the end Levitre might be a good backup and Wood should maybe be playing center. Green needs to have a seat as soon as possible

if he can't do any better than he's been doing. Bell is doing okay. Much better than last season. He's making none of the penalties we

constantly saw him make last season and he's holding his own against the pass rush. Considering his experience level this is very

encouraging. Between him and Wood we might have two keepers in the starting line-up. Meredith can't play LT. He's getting crushed

when he steps in for Bell. He needs to go to RT.

 

Hangartner is scary bad. This is straight Tutan Reyes, Bennie Andersen signing. Look at profootballfocus. They guy gets blown up every play. Why do people pretend otherwise?

[thewildrabbit]

The thing is not many fans really focus on watching the O line, all they see is the QB and don't really care or understand why he can't make plays happen.

 

Edwards has had about 2-3 seconds on most plays to get rid of the ball, so that is limiting him to 3 step drops and the ball better be gone. I watched him get sacked in the Miami game in 2 seconds from the blindside and hit after he completed a pass in 2 seconds. That is simply not enough time for any QB to do their job. What does it tell you about the O line when the RB is getting hit as soon as he gets the hand off, how many times in the last two games has Spiller / Lynch / Jackson been hit as soon as they touch the ball?

 

I'm not certain how the Bills delegate the responsibilities to the tackles, depending on whether a TE or RB is helping on that side. If you grade Bell solely on blocking the DE on his side then he has done well, if his responsibilities are protecting that entire left side if no RB-TE is helping...well then he stinks.

 

An example would be that he lines up opposite the DE and if an OLB is to his left he is supposed to slide over to pick up the LB if he blitzes and the guard slides to cover the DE, they usually shout audibles / dog / red, etc so the guard knows he is supposed to slide. The Bills protections overall have been horrid from what I've seen.

 

"purple haze" is correct in stating Edwards isn't able to step up in the pocket to avoid the DE's rush because the entire pocket has been collapsing... The QB's benching is more of the result of the bad play of the O line and receivers then it is his play IMO, but hey, it made the fans happy

[sharper802]

What would you think of an Offensive line of

 

Bell LT, Brandon Carter LG, Wood C, Herman Johnson RG, McNeil RT

McNeil wants LT money, ahh lets's see why..... Oh because he is a LT not a RT. They wouldn't pay Peters. Why would they pay McNeil????