Getting really tired of this Pats* cheater stuff.

[Fezmid]

Please give me other examples of cheating [proven] besides vidio taping a DC.

 

Nobody seems to talk about the headsets going out anymore... Everytime teams played the Patriots, the headsets would seem to go out ...

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/

[LongLiveRalph]

 

No conspiracy theories, no conjecture. They got caught cheating. Like baseballers on steroids, like USC, etc. Cheaters damage the game and like it or not the game is a large part of our cultural inheritance.

 

 

I think there's a few different lines that can be drawn. The USC issue, in my opinion, was a joke. Reggie Bush was by far the best player in college football that year. Where his parents were living had zero impact on his on-field performance. While it was certainly an "eligibility infraction" it had NOTHING to do with the competitive balance on the field. The same cannot be said for steroids, illegal video recording, etc. That is deliberate performance-enhancing cheating.

 

The NCAA wouldn't have cared less if Bush's parents were sleeping in a cardboard box under a bridge, as long as they could keep selling those red #5 jerseys and using his likeness on promos and publications. As an organization, the NCAA made hundreds of million dollars selling and exploiting Bush, and then determined it was appropriate to punish student-athletes at the school five years later.

[ShipUPride]

I would rather go 0-16 than win a Superbowl under those circumstances.

 

Once you get caught cheating, you're illegitimate. It might not seem like much in the rush of the present, but think in terms of history. Do you honestly want the first Superbowl the Bills ever won to be tainted forever? You can think of football in a lot of different ways, but with the ever increasing emphasis on the NFL as a family oriented game (as evidenced by the increasingly stringent tailgating restrictions), you can't help but think about its impact on the next generation.

 

Do you want to implicitly tell your kids that it's okay to cheat to get ahead, because their favorite team did it and was successful in doing so? What the Patriots did is so much worse than steroid use. Steroids are most often used by an individual to perform at higher level than they could normally achieve, one way or the other. The Pats, however, did something that violated the rules on an organizational level. It was a conscious effort by at least a few powerful people in the Pats coaching staff/front office to do something they knew violated the rules.

 

Or maybe you don't care about winning with honor, dignity, or class. I'm not saying the guys all have to be saints (although I wish they played like they were Saints...), but win the right way. If Buffalo ever won that way, it would break my heart. I'd have to give up rooting for my team.

 

Hopefully you're trolling. If not though, I'm stunned.

 

This is why I could never support Michael Vick as our QB. Every win he had would be tainted for me personally (dog lover). I would feel the same way if I were a Ravens fan (Lewis).

[Jim in Anchorage]

No, No and No.

 

If you watch sports with your kids and teach them that winning is important, that's great! If you teach them that winning "by any means necessary" is the most important thing, than you've done a disservice to yourself, your kids and everyone around you.

 

No conspiracy theories, no conjecture. They got caught cheating. Like baseballers on steroids, like USC, etc. Cheaters damage the game and like it or not the game is a large part of our cultural inheritance.

 

If you don't like talking about the cheater stuff, why did you bring it up? No one brings up the cheater stuff anymore just to bring it up. But that doesn't mean it needs to be forgotten. By remembering, we help (in a very small way) fight against future cheating.

 

"Winning isn't the most important thing, but the will to win is."

You missed my point. I brought it up? Look at any post on here where the Pats are mentioned. Always the Pats*, Belicheat,etc. So now it's HGH? All lame excuses.

 

Face it. The Pats*[there, happy] owned the Bills in the 2000s, as the Bills owned Miami in the 90s, and Miami owned the Bills in the 70s. Better players, better organization? Hell no they where all on drugs and dealt from the bottom of the deck! The Bills could have won two Super Bowls if the Pats played by the rules! Really the whining on here over trivial incidents is embarrassing.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Jim in Anchorage

[The Dean]

I mean what did they really do?

 

 

They cheated. They KNOWINGLY violated the rules. They did it secretively in an attempt to hide it from the NFL.

 

One has to ask, "If there was no advantage to cheating, why bother to do it?"

[Doc]

Guys - let it go. This whole crybaby mentality makes ya'll look like a bunch of sore losers and is pretty embarrassing.

Barry Bonds agrees with you.

[pkwwjd]

You missed my point. I brought it up? Look at any post on here where the Pats are mentioned. Always the Pats*, Belicheat,etc. So now it's HGH? All lame excuses.

 

Face it. The Pats*[there, happy] owned the Bills in the 2000s, as the Bills owned Miami in the 90s, and Miami owned the Bills in the 70s. Better players, better organization? Hell no they where all on drugs and dealt from the bottom of the deck! The Bills could have won two Super Bowls if the Pats played by the rules! Really the whining on here over trivial incidents is embarrassing.

To a large extent, the Pats didn't need to cheat to beat Buffalo the last 10 years. They beat us ... we beat us. I don't blame the losing streak against the Patsies on their cheating ... but they have forever tarnished their image b/c they thumbed their noses at the authorities of the league. I remember most of the 70s ... I hate the Dolphins, but I respect that team that beat us 20 straight times. The Patsies are much of what I don't want my kids to be in growing up. This goes back to some of my most recent posts that I got hammered for. This is a sad commentary on our culture ... we are all about selfishness. Common courtesy is not all that common. Common courtesy plays by the rules because it is right. Our culture of selfishness finds any and all loopholes to jump through and then cheats as much as possible without getting caught.

[akm0404]

Comparing this non-issue to the baseball steroid scandal is a pretty wide stretch. A large degree of the outcry caused by steroid use in baseball is due to the very statistical nature of the game. Purists hold sacred the hallowed numbers in the record books, and no other sport enjoys that almost reverent statistical condition.

 

I suppose the Patriots "cheating" would be akin to Derek Jeter taking first base after pretending that he got hit when he really didn't. Pressing a competitive advantage, with an uncertain degree of ethicalness.

 

While they violated the NFL policies with regard to video taping, the reason that they own the Bills year after year after year after year is because of better players, better coaching, and better execution. To suggest otherwise is a crybaby excuse, and just utterly reeks of jealousy and desperation.

 

I hate the Patriots, but I'm just calling it like it is to any outside observer except the bitter, butthurt Bills fan.

 

they have forever tarnished their image

 

No they haven't. Nobody cares about this today, except for a small population of sore losers. Nobody will remember it in 20 years.

Edited September 24, 2010 by akm0404

[Mr. WEO]

They cheated. They KNOWINGLY violated the rules. They did it secretively in an attempt to hide it from the NFL.

 

One has to ask, "If there was no advantage to cheating, why bother to do it?"

Yes, secretly. The kid was busted standing in full view on the sidelines taping the opposing D signals. Previous such tapes featured opposing HC's waving at the camera. So secret that the League finally sent a letter to all teams to tell them not to do this anymore.

[pkwwjd]

Comparing this non-issue to the baseball steroid scandal is a pretty wide stretch. A large degree of the outcry caused by steroid use in baseball is due to the very statistical nature of the game. Purists hold sacred the hallowed numbers in the record books, and no other sport enjoys that almost reverent statistical condition.

 

I suppose the Patriots "cheating" would be akin to Derek Jeter taking first base after pretending that he got hit when he really didn't. Pressing a competitive advantage, with an uncertain degree of ethicalness.

 

While they violated the NFL policies with regard to video taping, the reason that they own the Bills year after year after year after year is because of better players, better coaching, and better execution. To suggest otherwise is a crybaby excuse, and just utterly reeks of jealousy and desperation.

 

I hate the Patriots, but I'm just calling it like it is to any outside observer except the bitter, butthurt Bills fan.

 

 

 

No they haven't. Nobody cares about this today, except for a small population of sore losers. Nobody will remember it in 20 years.

Funny thing about image ... is that it is relative to the sight of the one making the comment ... I should have added that it has tarnished it in my mind (but didn't think that to be necessary). I also concur that they have beat us, not by cheating, but by having superior players, coaching, etc. and at times us beating ourselves when their team stumbled (see last year). Has their cheating enhanced the matchups through the years? Maybe, possibly, probably ... we'll never know ... that's the other side of dishonesty ... you never know what you are getting. Is it the real deal? It is cheating? We don't know. In raising kids, dishonesty is the worst sin a child can commit against one's parents ... trust can be shattered (especially when it is a pattern of dishonesty) and take years to restore ... if ever.

[The Dean]

So secret that the League finally sent a letter to all teams to tell them not to do this anymore.

 

 

Your defense for this clear violation of NFL rules is typical for you, and as usual you are wrong on the facts. Teams were aware of the rule BEFORE the incident:

 

 

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

 

Let's also fail to mention the league destroyed all the evidence so that any other violations can continue to be covered up.

 

You continue to be an apologist for this group of cheating thugs.

[The Senator]

I mean what did they really do? Video the Jets defensive coordinator in a game they were going to win anyway?

My point is if it's that easy to win in the NFL, WHEN ARE THE BILLS GOING TO START CHEATING. I would love to see them take on that eye gouging, no holds barred attitude. Pay off refs? Fine go for it. Microphone's in the opposing teams locker room? Do it.

Fine put a * next to their SB win. Chan-a cheat has a nice ring to it.

There's already an asterisk next to their* first Superbowl win.

 

What did they* do, you ask? Seriously???

 

In case you forgot, or just didn't know...

 

Report: Source claims Patriots* taped Rams before Super Bowl

 

 

There is absolute no depth to which Belicheat* will not lower himself to gain an advantage. On my flight to Boston this week I was told by a New Englander* that BB* actually contributed to the design of Gillette Stadium by insisting that the visitor's locker room be positioned/configured such to require a lengthy, circuitous, out-of-the-way walk (approx. 6 minutes - 12 round trip - unless they run, while the Cheatriettes* merely walk thru a portal directly behind their* bench), which gives the visiting team about 3 minutes or so for half-time strategical game-plan adjustments.

 

I'm also told that, after the cheating scandal became public, Bob Kraft* actually launched a network of Low Earth Orbit satellites that Belicheat* uses to gather surveillance video on all NFL teams from the secret mountain fortress that Kraft* has hidden deep in the New Hampshire's White Mountains...

Bill Belicheat's Secret Mountain Hideaway

 

...and, when confronted with those rumors, Belicheat* responded matter-of-factly, "There's nothing in the NFL rule book about Low Earth Orbit satellites."

 

 

Now, why don't the Bills cheat, you ask? Well, first, because it's just wrong. Second, because if Chan actually requested a similar setup from Ralph, RW would probably attempt to piece together a network of broken or unused transponders on aging C-band satellites and a recon facility in the Orchard Park woods something like this...

 

Chan's Surveillance Shack

 

 

We don't need to cheat to beat NE* this Sunday...

BuffTown Billsss 20

NE Cheatriettes* - 3

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

17 and 2 maybe!!!!!

Edited September 24, 2010 by The Senator

[DanInUticaTampa]

The big issue with the videotaping is that they were told NOT to that.... and even after being told not to do it, they went and did it anyway. That shows some pretty crazy arrogance and it is the straw that broke the camera's back with all this stuff where a DT will sack a QB and it will be awesome, but he makes the same sack on Tom Brady and gets fined type stuff.

 

If a team doesn't want to be looked down on, then they shouldn't act like they are above the rules and above the league.

[GR8PRKN]

I mean what did they really do? Video the Jets defensive coordinator in a game they were going to win anyway?

My point is if it's that easy to win in the NFL, WHEN ARE THE BILLS GOING TO START CHEATING. I would love to see them take on that eye gouging, no holds barred attitude. Pay off refs? Fine go for it. Microphone's in the opposing teams locker room? Do it.

Fine put a * next to their SB win. Chan-a cheat has a nice ring to it.

 

I would rather see Blocking and Tackling... And some solid drafts!

[Mr. WEO]

Your defense for this clear violation of NFL rules is typical for you, and as usual you are wrong on the facts. Teams were aware of the rule BEFORE the incident:

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

 

Let's also fail to mention the league destroyed all the evidence so that any other violations can continue to be covered up.

 

You continue to be an apologist for this group of cheating thugs.

Actually my statement is factually correct. Yes, we all know that all teams were aware of the rule banning this video-taping (thanks for the "wikipedia" reference, though!), but The NFL's Executive Vice President of Football Operations sent ALL teams a memo the prior season reminding them this is a violation of rules. That is a fact, Dean.

 

I have never described this as anything but cheating and foolish for BB to persist in doing---particlularly so blatantly. Hardly "defending". Sorry to wreck it for you.

 

Also, if is well known by opposing coaches know a HC is taping their D signals, why would they continue to display them? And where was the universal outcry from the coaches and owners in the league at getting ripped off? Only a handful said anything. I wonder why that is........

[SwampD]

Comparing this non-issue to the baseball steroid scandal is a pretty wide stretch. A large degree of the outcry caused by steroid use in baseball is due to the very statistical nature of the game. Purists hold sacred the hallowed numbers in the record books, and no other sport enjoys that almost reverent statistical condition.

 

I suppose the Patriots "cheating" would be akin to Derek Jeter taking first base after pretending that he got hit when he really didn't. Pressing a competitive advantage, with an uncertain degree of ethicalness.

 

While they violated the NFL policies with regard to video taping, the reason that they own the Bills year after year after year after year is because of better players, better coaching, and better execution. To suggest otherwise is a crybaby excuse, and just utterly reeks of jealousy and desperation.

 

I hate the Patriots, but I'm just calling it like it is to any outside observer except the bitter, butthurt Bills fan.

 

 

 

No they haven't. Nobody cares about this today, except for a small population of sore losers. Nobody will remember it in 20 years.

How is this a non-issue? The Patriots won all three of their Super Bowls by a single field goal each time. There is no denying that knowing what the other team called was just enough to give them the edge and win those games.

 

...And what happened in the one Super Bowl that they couldn't cheat in?... They lost by a field goal.

 

It definitely would not have mattered in terms of the Bills, but it absolutely matters in a greater football sense.

Edited September 24, 2010 by SwampD

[DC Tom]

Don't forget that they didn't just send assistants to the Jets sidelines to videotape...they sent assistants dressed in Jets paraphenalia.

[The Dean]

Don't forget that they didn't just send assistants to the Jets sidelines to videotape...they sent assistants dressed in Jets paraphenalia.

 

 

But they weren't trying to hide it.

[justnzane]

Another one is that the Pats were one of the teams that blocked the implementation of speakers in the defensive captain's helmet for defensive playcalling. Once Spygate broke out, this was no longer blocked by the rest of the league

[CardinalScotts]

? I don't get it. Details help the reader.

 

Pats didn't just video the jets they just got caught in that game. Why did they do it because it gave them an advantage. Otherwise they wouldn't do it- Like steroids nobody takes them for the side effects you take them because they work.