Getting really tired of this Pats* cheater stuff.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I mean what did they really do? Video the Jets defensive coordinator in a game they were going to win anyway?

My point is if it's that easy to win in the NFL, WHEN ARE THE BILLS GOING TO START CHEATING. I would love to see them take on that eye gouging, no holds barred attitude. Pay off refs? Fine go for it. Microphone's in the opposing teams locker room? Do it.

Fine put a * next to their SB win. Chan-a cheat has a nice ring to it.

[Malazan]

Sadly, this is not the worst post I've seen on this board.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Sadly, this is not the worst post I've seen on this board.

? I don't get it. Details help the reader.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Jim in Anchorage

[FightinIrishBills]

I mean what did they really do? Video the Jets defensive coordinator in a game they were going to win anyway?

My point is if it's that easy to win in the NFL, WHEN ARE THE BILLS GOING TO START CHEATING. I would love to see them take on that eye gouging, no holds barred attitude. Pay off refs? Fine go for it. Microphone's in the opposing teams locker room? Do it.

Fine put a * next to their SB win. Chan-a cheat has a nice ring to it.

 

I would rather go 0-16 than win a Superbowl under those circumstances.

 

Once you get caught cheating, you're illegitimate. It might not seem like much in the rush of the present, but think in terms of history. Do you honestly want the first Superbowl the Bills ever won to be tainted forever? You can think of football in a lot of different ways, but with the ever increasing emphasis on the NFL as a family oriented game (as evidenced by the increasingly stringent tailgating restrictions), you can't help but think about its impact on the next generation.

 

Do you want to implicitly tell your kids that it's okay to cheat to get ahead, because their favorite team did it and was successful in doing so? What the Patriots did is so much worse than steroid use. Steroids are most often used by an individual to perform at higher level than they could normally achieve, one way or the other. The Pats, however, did something that violated the rules on an organizational level. It was a conscious effort by at least a few powerful people in the Pats coaching staff/front office to do something they knew violated the rules.

 

Or maybe you don't care about winning with honor, dignity, or class. I'm not saying the guys all have to be saints (although I wish they played like they were Saints...), but win the right way. If Buffalo ever won that way, it would break my heart. I'd have to give up rooting for my team.

 

Hopefully you're trolling. If not though, I'm stunned.

[8-8 Forever?]

I would rather go 0-16 than win a Superbowl under those circumstances.

 

Once you get caught cheating, you're illegitimate. It might not seem like much in the rush of the present, but think in terms of history. Do you honestly want the first Superbowl the Bills ever won to be tainted forever? You can think of football in a lot of different ways, but with the ever increasing emphasis on the NFL as a family oriented game (as evidenced by the increasingly stringent tailgating restrictions), you can't help but think about its impact on the next generation.

 

Do you want to implicitly tell your kids that it's okay to cheat to get ahead, because their favorite team did it and was successful in doing so? What the Patriots did is so much worse than steroid use. Steroids are most often used by an individual to perform at higher level than they could normally achieve, one way or the other. The Pats, however, did something that violated the rules on an organizational level. It was a conscious effort by at least a few powerful people in the Pats coaching staff/front office to do something they knew violated the rules.

 

Or maybe you don't care about winning with honor, dignity, or class. I'm not saying the guys all have to be saints (although I wish they played like they were Saints...), but win the right way. If Buffalo ever won that way, it would break my heart. I'd have to give up rooting for my team.

 

Hopefully you're trolling. If not though, I'm stunned.

Yep, the Bills are going 0 - 16 as stand up guys, that's for sure. We will hold our heads high as the rest of the league and country laughs their butts off at us. Great. Pal, after this season, everyone will be giving up rooting for this team.

[The_Philster]

They've been cheating ever since Kraft bought the team or shortly thereafter.

 

Evidence? "Just give it to them"

 

If Shawn Jefferson can come down out of bounds and short of the goal line but still be given the 1st down by 2 officials on the spot, that tells me they were on the take.

Then you add in that ridiculous pass interference penalty on the Hail Mary play

 

 

and I don't care who does it...it's a black mark against that team and the league as a whole..cheating is never the answer

Edited September 24, 2010 by The_Philster

[FightinIrishBills]

Yep, the Bills are going 0 - 16 as stand up guys, that's for sure. We will hold our heads high as the rest of the league and country laughs their butts off at us. Great. Pal, after this season, everyone will be giving up rooting for this team.

 

I'd rather they laugh their butts off at us than have them think of us as shiftless rule-breakers. At least if you're bad, you have the potential to be good at some point. But the taint of that scandal belongs to the Pats forever.

 

And for the record, I think there's a snowball's chance that we go 0-16 this year. I would take 16 losses, though, over one illegitimate victory.

[papazoid]

let's see....

 

it's perefctly legal to "observe" by any means, any and all play calling and signals of your opponents.

 

you can write that info down and save it for future reference.

 

just don't record it by video ??......laughable....dumb rule.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I would rather go 0-16 than win a Superbowl under those circumstances.

 

Once you get caught cheating, you're illegitimate. It might not seem like much in the rush of the present, but think in terms of history. Do you honestly want the first Superbowl the Bills ever won to be tainted forever? You can think of football in a lot of different ways, but with the ever increasing emphasis on the NFL as a family oriented game (as evidenced by the increasingly stringent tailgating restrictions), you can't help but think about its impact on the next generation.

 

Do you want to implicitly tell your kids that it's okay to cheat to get ahead, because their favorite team did it and was successful in doing so? What the Patriots did is so much worse than steroid use. Steroids are most often used by an individual to perform at higher level than they could normally achieve, one way or the other. The Pats, however, did something that violated the rules on an organizational level. It was a conscious effort by at least a few powerful people in the Pats coaching staff/front office to do something they knew violated the rules.

 

Or maybe you don't care about winning with honor, dignity, or class. I'm not saying the guys all have to be saints (although I wish they played like they were Saints...), but win the right way. If Buffalo ever won that way, it would break my heart. I'd have to give up rooting for my team.

 

Hopefully you're trolling. If not though, I'm stunned.

Pretty noble thoughts from a group that 50% of would have no problem with a junk QB who spent 6 years smashing dogs heads into concrete floors."But he could win some games!!!! He paid his dues!!!"

Please give me other examples of cheating [proven] besides vidio taping a DC.

[FightinIrishBills]

Pretty noble thoughts from a group that 50% of would have no problem with a junk QB who spent 6 years smashing dogs heads into concrete floors."But he could win some games!!!! He paid his dues!!!"

Please give me other examples of cheating [proven] besides vidio taping a DC.

 

Please, allow me to smash through that nice little straw-man of yours. First off, I don't think I've ever posted anything on here one way or the other about Michael Vick, and I really don't think that you know how many fans who think the Pats are cheaters want to bring Vick in.

 

The two are mutually exclusive, relative to the game of football anyways. Michael Vick committed some abhorrent crimes, but he didn't violate the actual integrity of the game. Remember that Donte Stallworth actually took a man's life and still plays in the league. There are lots of folks that play the game of football that in the privacy of their own lives, might be terrible, awful people.

 

The Patriots, however, violated what was the universally accepted rule of law in the NFL. They essentially flipped the bird to the rulebook and betrayed a sense of arrogance and hubris that severely harms both the integrity of the game and the legitimacy of the league. It shows absolutely zero sportsmanship or sense of fair play.

 

Besides, Michael Vick served a greater punishment for his crimes relative to the Patriots. He served his time and has proven to be someone in good standing, at least for now. The Pats got away with cheating and suffered little by way of punishment (sorry, I know draft picks are huge, but there should have been a greater penalty than that).

[Jim in Anchorage]

They've been cheating ever since Kraft bought the team or shortly thereafter.

 

Evidence? "Just give it to them"

 

If Shawn Jefferson can come down out of bounds and short of the goal line but still be given the 1st down by 2 officials on the spot, that tells me they were on the take.

Then you add in that ridiculous pass interference penalty on the Hail Mary play

 

 

and I don't care who does it...it's a black mark against that team and the league as a whole..cheating is never the answer

Yes and did Vinny Testaverde get the ball in the end zone? The Jets cheated! Bribed everyone from the commissioner on down! Please excuses are for losers. seeing a bad call and suggesting a vast conspiracy is for the tin foil hat crowd.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Please, allow me to smash through that nice little straw-man of yours. First off, I don't think I've ever posted anything on here one way or the other about Michael Vick, and I really don't think that you know how many fans who think the Pats are cheaters want to bring Vick in.

 

The two are mutually exclusive, relative to the game of football anyways. Michael Vick committed some abhorrent crimes, but he didn't violate the actual integrity of the game. Remember that Donte Stallworth actually took a man's life and still plays in the league. There are lots of folks that play the game of football that in the privacy of their own lives, might be terrible, awful people.

 

The Patriots, however, violated what was the universally accepted rule of law in the NFL. They essentially flipped the bird to the rulebook and betrayed a sense of arrogance and hubris that severely harms both the integrity of the game and the legitimacy of the league. It shows absolutely zero sportsmanship or sense of fair play.

 

Besides, Michael Vick served a greater punishment for his crimes relative to the Patriots. He served his time and has proven to be someone in good standing, at least for now. The Pats got away with cheating and suffered little by way of punishment (sorry, I know draft picks are huge, but there should have been a greater penalty than that).

And what would have made you happy? Dissolving the Franchise? A ASSISTANT COACH VIDEOED A JETS ASSISTANT COACH DURING A GAME. Oh whoopee do. Again I am waiting for more proven cheating examples.

[judman]

Patriots*

Super Bowl Champs*

Brady*

 

Forever tarnished in my mind. They cheated, they got caught. Then the NFL held up the corner of the rug while Kraft swept the dirt underneath. All evidence destroyed...

 

If they were truly interested in clearing their name, they would have not only allowed a full investigation, but insisted on it.

 

Patriots with an * is A-OK with me.

[akm0404]

In this thread: Sour grapes and a truckload of jealousy.

[RunTheBall]

This is ridiculous. The Pats* engaged in a pattern of cheating that was accepted within their organization and they knew exactly what they were doing. By videotaping defensive calls throughout the year they were able to use that knowledge in close games and the playoffs, and that advantage easily made the difference for them. Not only that, Bellidouche was written a memo by the commish that said,and I'm paraphrasing "Hey !@#$, don't videotape, it's cheating". Being the arrogant f*cks that they are, remember this was when the Pats* were the chosen ones of the league, they kept cheating and got busted AGAIN. At a minimum Bellidouche should have been suspended for the year. The fact that they lost a first round draft pick tells you the league knows they were cheating but being the pussies that they are wanted this to just go away.

 

The worst part of the whole thing was the NFL destroyed the tapes so independent bodies could not look at them and see just how bad it was. The fact that they got rid of them so fast makes me think they were horrendous and probably had some direct links to their playoff and superbowl wins which the NFL didnt want to have questioned.

 

The Pats* are cheaters, their Superbowl victories deserve a huge * next to them, and the NFL was complicit in minimizing the damage to the reputations of the Pats* and the league itself.

 

RTB

[Sabre Bill]

I mean what did they really do? Video the Jets defensive coordinator in a game they were going to win anyway?

My point is if it's that easy to win in the NFL, WHEN ARE THE BILLS GOING TO START CHEATING. I would love to see them take on that eye gouging, no holds barred attitude. Pay off refs? Fine go for it. Microphone's in the opposing teams locker room? Do it.

Fine put a * next to their SB win. Chan-a cheat has a nice ring to it.

 

 

Yep, the Bills are going 0 - 16 as stand up guys, that's for sure. We will hold our heads high as the rest of the league and country laughs their butts off at us. Great. Pal, after this season, everyone will be giving up rooting for this team.

 

 

In this thread: Sour grapes and a truckload of jealousy.

 

 

No, No and No.

 

If you watch sports with your kids and teach them that winning is important, that's great! If you teach them that winning "by any means necessary" is the most important thing, than you've done a disservice to yourself, your kids and everyone around you.

 

No conspiracy theories, no conjecture. They got caught cheating. Like baseballers on steroids, like USC, etc. Cheaters damage the game and like it or not the game is a large part of our cultural inheritance.

 

If you don't like talking about the cheater stuff, why did you bring it up? No one brings up the cheater stuff anymore just to bring it up. But that doesn't mean it needs to be forgotten. By remembering, we help (in a very small way) fight against future cheating.

 

"Winning isn't the most important thing, but the will to win is."

[MattM]

This is ridiculous. The Pats* engaged in a pattern of cheating that was accepted within their organization and they knew exactly what they were doing. By videotaping defensive calls throughout the year they were able to use that knowledge in close games and the playoffs, and that advantage easily made the difference for them. Not only that, Bellidouche was written a memo by the commish that said,and I'm paraphrasing "Hey !@#$, don't videotape, it's cheating". Being the arrogant f*cks that they are, remember this was when the Pats* were the chosen ones of the league, they kept cheating and got busted AGAIN. At a minimum Bellidouche should have been suspended for the year. The fact that they lost a first round draft pick tells you the league knows they were cheating but being the pussies that they are wanted this to just go away.

 

The worst part of the whole thing was the NFL destroyed the tapes so independent bodies could not look at them and see just how bad it was. The fact that they got rid of them so fast makes me think they were horrendous and probably had some direct links to their playoff and superbowl wins which the NFL didnt want to have questioned.

 

The Pats* are cheaters, their Superbowl victories deserve a huge * next to them, and the NFL was complicit in minimizing the damage to the reputations of the Pats* and the league itself.

 

RTB

 

Plus 1--in addition to the obvious (Spygate), they've also had the Rodney Harrison HGH scandal (imagine, a team full of wizened vets, many of them over the hill elsewhere, come to New England and miraculously play like they did 5 years earlier--coincidence? Take a look sometime league-wide and find halfbacks over 32 years old. The Pats have three of the 5 I could find of any consequence) and an article in the NYT quoting team oficials from several other NFL teams on the Competition Committee saying that almost any time they got a call about skeazy behavior "it was one team, really", i.e., the Cheats. Don't even get me started on the officiating in their games, from "just give it to them," to the Tuck Rule, to the Ravens Monday nighter two years ago to my personal fave, our opener against them a few years ago that even TMQ wrote up about the awful (and always one-sided as it always is in their games) officiating in that game. There's an awful lot of smoke around that team.....

[SwampD]

And what would have made you happy? Dissolving the Franchise? A ASSISTANT COACH VIDEOED A JETS ASSISTANT COACH DURING A GAME. Oh whoopee do. Again I am waiting for more proven cheating examples.

It wasn't just the Jets. It was everyone they played over the course of many years. They got caught the year before against Green Bay (I think) and were told to stop, then got caught a second time. The league must have thought pretty strongly about it because Bellacheat was also fined half a million dollars. That's not a small sum of money.

[akm0404]

Guys - let it go. This whole crybaby mentality makes ya'll look like a bunch of sore losers and is pretty embarrassing.

[MattM]

It wasn't just the Jets. It was everyone they played over the course of many years. They got caught the year before against Green Bay (I think) and were told to stop, then got caught a second time. The league must have thought pretty strongly about it because Bellacheat was also fined half a million dollars. That's not a small sum of money.

 

Remember also that very shortly thereafter Kraft redid Belicheat's contract on a "terms undisclosed" basis. Dollars to donuts Kraft paid every bit of that fine himself.....