marauderswr80 Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I think the franchise either ruined relationships or let go players due to lack of willing to pay them... where would the team be if we kept, Pat Williams, winfield, spikes, fletcher, greer, peters, incognito, owens, clements...ect...these guys are better then who we have now. Maybe not better then our DB's idk, but point being we let some solid talent walk instead of paying them. I'm no expert, but games are won in the trenches....we can't win at the point of attack on either side of the ball...until that happens, expect any talent we have go down the drain! only thing that's gonna save the franchise is a new owner. God bless Ralph, but the NFL is a newer style of operation...we need a young hungry owner to take over and do what it takes to win. kinda like a Mark Cuban sorta owner....dont shoot me.
mattsox Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 JP sucked and so does Trent. Yeah I said it. Why would I trade one piece of crap QB for another. Come on. JP is out of the League. We cut Trent tomorrow and so is he. Grow up and move on. Fitz is a good back up, but that is all. We don't have a QB on this team who can lead this team. THERE IS NO FIX THIS YEAR... We Need A QB and we need to rebuild the OL to have any success whatsoever. Looking forward to 2011!
Ray Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 If JP was any good he would be in the NFL right now. It was not just the Bills who realized he was bad.....it's the entire NFL! Trent is just as bad. It is too bad about JP because we all felt he really liked Buffalo, embraced the city, had physical tools but just cannot cut it in the NFL. I do agree at least he tried to make plays......see the youtube play where Evans beats Revis and the safety. He was not "open" as some people seem to say is the problem for Edwards but JP would take chances. If you are gonna suck, at least make it interesting......that is what JP had over Trent. Best of luck to both of them as they are both two very nice guys, just not NFL quality QBs.
PDaDdy Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 So what does that have to do with a thread that bemoans the loss of JP Losman? Both TE and JP suck so why a thread measuring the depth to which they both suck???? That was my point. I'm not bemoaning JP's loss but I am bemoaning the bone head decision to keep Edwards instead. I am bemoaning the horrible, boring slow death football we had to watch the last 4 years when we could have at least had an exciting loser with a higher upside. WE watch the games, win or lose and post on message boards, because we are die hard fans. Most people watch the games because they are entertaining and exciting. They will put up with a losing team for a while if they are at least exciting. We haven't had excitement at the QB position since Edwards became the "fools golden" child endorsed by Bill Walsh.
Green Lightning Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) I'm not bemoaning JP's loss but I am bemoaning the bone head decision to keep Edwards instead. I am bemoaning the horrible, boring slow death football we had to watch the last 4 years when we could have at least had an exciting loser with a higher upside. WE watch the games, win or lose and post on message boards, because we are die hard fans. Most people watch the games because they are entertaining and exciting. They will put up with a losing team for a while if they are at least exciting. We haven't had excitement at the QB position since Edwards became the "fools golden" child endorsed by Bill Walsh. I get your point but I just didn't see value debating the merits of basically two QB's who don't belong in the NFL. I'm more focused on what's next and who's next. I say cut Trent and bring back Levi - play all our kids and lose the Kelsay's and Greens and othe retreads who have no future. Take our lumps this year and give some kids with upside precious playing time now. Edited September 21, 2010 by Green Lightning
PDaDdy Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) I think the franchise either ruined relationships or let go players due to lack of willing to pay them... where would the team be if we kept, Pat Williams, winfield, spikes, fletcher, greer, peters, incognito, owens, clements...ect...these guys are better then who we have now. Maybe not better then our DB's idk, but point being we let some solid talent walk instead of paying them. I'm no expert, but games are won in the trenches....we can't win at the point of attack on either side of the ball...until that happens, expect any talent we have go down the drain! only thing that's gonna save the franchise is a new owner. God bless Ralph, but the NFL is a newer style of operation...we need a young hungry owner to take over and do what it takes to win. kinda like a Mark Cuban sorta owner....dont shoot me. I came to the realization that this is the Bills problem when we let Peters go. Normally our SOP is to get players with high draft picks. Develop those players into stars or even probowlers. Refuse to pay them and then continually use high draft picks to restock the SAME positions over, and over and over. We can't get more talent because we are continually restocking at the DB, OL and now RB positions. Occasionally we throw a LB or DE in there and if they don't pan out we are POOCHED for years to come. Wonder why Evans is our only good WR??? He is basically the only one we spent a truly good draft pick on with mention of Peerless who was good but over "priced" and Hardy who was an injury bust!!! Wonder why our D-line is small and weak? Discounting Troupe this year what high picks have we used since Pat Williams on a D-line guy? JON MCCARGO. He was a bust and we have been screwed for years. We seem to keep cranking out DBs though that go on to get great pay checks elsewhere and sometimes even win super bowls though. I get your point but I just didn't see value debating the merits of basically two QB's who don't belong in the NFL. I'm more focused on what's next and who's next. I say cut Trent and bring back Levi - play all our kids and lose the Kelsay's and Greens and othe retreads who have no future. Take our lumps this year and give some kids with upside precious playing time now. I hear ya. I would like to see Levi come back. Trade or dump Edwards to make a spot. Edited September 21, 2010 by PDaDdy
Orton's Arm Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) We kept the wrong guy! We should have never let JP Losman go. Paraphrasing Dennis Green, "Edwards is who we thought he was." He is a weak armed checkdown bum. JP was not a savior either but the guy would chuck the ball down the field which at least challenged the defense beyond 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. At least it opened up the run game unlike Trent. Imagine if our previous front office committed to JP for 4 years like they did with Trent? This front office gave Trent every opportunity and never ONCE brought in any free agent QB that had even the most remote chance of challenging him for the starting job. FOUR YEARS!!! It is even more amazing that in spite of the straw man competitors to his job that were brought in HE STILL MANAGED TO LOSE IT TWICE!!! I would have rather dealt with some of JP's bone headed moves and gaffs while letting it rip and trying to win a game than watching the slow, painful, ball-less death that was Trent Edwards. What could have been if JP was given the endorsement of Bill Walsh and the blind faith and support of the front office. Might have turned that kid around. If letting Losman go was a mistake, the Bills have every opportunity to correct it. Losman's current status is "cut," so he's there for whichever NFL team wants him. No one has signed him so far--even as a #3. But just because he's not good enough to even make anyone else's roster doesn't mean he can't be the long-term answer as a starter here in Buffalo. We acquired our starting RT by signing a player no one else wanted. Why not get our starting QB that way as well? Edited September 21, 2010 by Edwards' Arm
Leonidas Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) It's not a bring back JP thread. It's not a JP would have been our savior thread. It's a JP would have been the lesser of two evils thread. It's a can we finally admit our mistake in keeping and backing Edwards to the hilt thread. It's a JP would have been more exciting to watch thread. It's a what could JP have become if given the backing that Edwards got thread. There is no huge debate to spark again. JP is long gone and Trent is hopefully on his way too. I don't even want to give the con man another chance to fool the coaching staff and front office into thinking that he can some how be the starter based on practices or playing well against preseason vanilla defenses. Hahaha, oh man. Thanks for proving your idiocy on this one, all on your own to boot. Being a revisionist historian must be fun. Maddog69 is right - just because Edwards sucks doesn't mean Losman could play. Losman sucked as well. Then again, considering the source I am not surprised... Edited September 21, 2010 by Leonidas
Mickey Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) I always like J.P., but he never knew when to get rid of the ball. Yes, he's got the balls to throw downfield; but he'd take way too many sacks and give up costly fumbles and interceptions. He's just another guy who doesn't have "it." Hmmm.....sounds like the same complaint we had with Bledsoe, and RJ, and Trent. So either we just had the bad luck of getting 4 QB's in a row who don't know when to get rid of the football or maybe, just maybe, that is what it looks like when you have a crappy offensive line. No OL means no run game which means 3rd and long, alot. No OL means you don't even get much time on 1st down passes. No OL means you often have to go max protect so that your WR's are outnumbered in the secondary. Maybe there is a common thread there? Just sayin'. I remember seeing a game in Pittsburgh, my brother had awesome, awesome tickets. We got killed. Their defense and pass rush was so good and our line so bad that we often sent just Lee Evans and one other WR out against nickel and dime coverage on 3rd and long and kept everyone else in for the ultimate in max pro. I remember one play in particular where all those blockers worked, JP had all day long. But they only blitzed one guy in, there was double and triple coverage everywhere. He held the ball and held the ball waiting for someone to get open. No one ever did. There was a LB shadowing him to stop him from keeping it himself. He finally got sacked after what seemed an eternity. He got up off the ground and spiked the ball in anger and I could here him cursing from our seats. Back home on Monday I checked in here and everyone was complaining about how JP doesn't know when to get rid of the ball and using that play as Exhibit A. Edited September 21, 2010 by Mickey
Conch Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I don't think either Joe Montana or Dan Marino would survive with this offensive line.
Orton's Arm Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Not saying that Losman IS the guy today or that even Losman could have been the guy if the team committed to him like the did Edwards. I'm basically just saying "what if?". Who knows what Losman could have become if we gave him as much time as Trent. Might have still turned out to be a neverwas any way? I'm also saying it would have been a HELL of a lot more interesting watching a guy whose arm and #1 WR on any given play could put points on the board or get your team a win. If he learned to get rid of the happy feet and stopped throwing fastballs on passes to the RBs in the flat and checkdowns across the middle he might have been a respectable NFL QB. Instead we ship him out and backed the wrong QB in Edturds. Despite all of the fan felatio Trent was no more intelligent, a leader or decision maker than JP was, had inferior physical skills and put fewer points on the board. I'll address your bolded statement. Losman was drafted in 2004. He spent his rookie year on the bench--a chance to absorb the offensive terminology and study film. He also had the chance to practice both before his injury, and after he'd healed. Year 2 of Losman's career was 2005. He had eight career starts that year. Losman looked a lot less polished as a second-year player than Edwards would later look as a rookie. Year 3 of Losman's career was 2006. Statistically it was by far his best season. But it was noted that the offense had been radically simplified to accommodate his mental limitations. His successes came more from long bombs to Lee Evans rather than using short, accurate passes to sustain drives over the course of many plays. That style of offense was fine while it lasted, but eventually defenses adapted. Year 4 of Losman's career was 2007. By then defenses had learned to take away his deep game and force him to beat you with underneath stuff. As a result of defenses' adaptations, Losman looked worse in 2007 than he had in 2006. He was unable to ward off the challenge of the rookie Edwards. Year 5 of Losman's career was 2008. By this time Losman was going for that "homeless" look, and had been demoted to third string status. Losman was given four years in which to prove himself: a rookie year to sit and learn on the bench, and three years of playing time. (Though there were long stretches during two of those three years when he'd been benched due to poor play.) Year 1 of Edwards' career was 2007. He received significant playing time after Losman was benched. Year 2 of Edwards' career was 2008. He started for 14 games that year. Year 3 of Edwards' career was 2009. He had only seven starts that year due to injuries and being benched in favor of Fitzpatrick. Defenses had learned that you're supposed to take away Edwards' underneath game and force him to beat you deep. Year 4 of Edwards' career is this year. He's had only two starts before his benching. This seems to be the year the Bills give up on him. Losman had 31 career starts during his time in Buffalo, as compared to 32 career starts for Edwards. The Bills gave up on Losman well into year 4 of his career; whereas they are seemingly giving up on Edwards only two games into year 4 of his career. Both quarterbacks have had about the same number of years, and about the same number of career starts, in which to prove themselves. Neither did. At this point, our thoughts about the Bills' quarterbacking future should revolve around the 2011 draft.
Mickey Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hahaha, oh man. Thanks for proving your idiocy on this one, all on your own to boot. Being a revisionist historian must be fun. Maddog69 is right - just because Edwards sucks doesn't mean Losman could play. Losman sucked as well. Then again, considering the source I am not surprised... ...and you proved what? That you can personally attack a fellow Bills fan simply because he disagrees with you? That is just what we need more of around here, vitriol and bile. Thanks for helping us out. I get your point but I just didn't see value debating the merits of basically two QB's who don't belong in the NFL. I'm more focused on what's next and who's next. I say cut Trent and bring back Levi - play all our kids and lose the Kelsay's and Greens and othe retreads who have no future. Take our lumps this year and give some kids with upside precious playing time now. I have to say that I was hoping that Levi would be a good developmental kind of guy. I was surprised when they decided he wasn't even worth that much. If he stinks he stinks but given their faith in Edwards, I am not so sure I trust their conclusions wth regard to Levi Brown. I don't mind talking about the past, anything but that "game" on Sunday. Honestly, we just didn't even appear to belong in the same league as the Packers. I think we could play them 20 times and not beat them once, not even on a lucky day with all the breaks going our way. At least with JP, you could get excited once in awhile as he chucked it downfield. There was an exciting play every now and then. I almost forget what they look like.
Leonidas Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 ...and you proved what? That you can personally attack a fellow Bills fan simply because he disagrees with you? That is just what we need more of around here, vitriol and bile. Thanks for helping us out. You must be new here. Otherwise you would have seen the OP's previous posts over the last year and agreed. He's not an idiot for this one ridiculous suggestion, but rather for a string of them.
nonprophet Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Not saying that Losman IS the guy today or that even Losman could have been the guy if the team committed to him like the did Edwards. I'm basically just saying "what if?". Who knows what Losman could have become if we gave him as much time as Trent. Might have still turned out to be a neverwas any way? Yes. I'm also saying it would have been a HELL of a lot more interesting watching a guy whose arm and #1 WR on any given play could put points on the board or get your team a win. Sure, if only he would throw the ball in time. If he learned to get rid of the happy feet and stopped throwing fastballs on passes to the RBs in the flat and checkdowns across the middle he might have been a respectable NFL QB. If he "coulda" he "woulda" by now. Instead we ship him out and backed the wrong QB in Edturds. Despite all of the fan felatio Trent was no more intelligent, a leader or decision maker than JP was, had inferior physical skills and put fewer points on the board. Edwards owes Losman a huge debt of gratitude; Losman made him look good enough to start. Let's see how Fitz does behind that line, that's probably what Chan is thinking.
Bob in STL Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 We kept the wrong guy! We should have never let JP Losman go. Paraphrasing Dennis Green, "Edwards is who we thought he was." He is a weak armed checkdown bum. JP was not a savior either but the guy would chuck the ball down the field which at least challenged the defense beyond 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. At least it opened up the run game unlike Trent. Imagine if our previous front office committed to JP for 4 years like they did with Trent? This front office gave Trent every opportunity and never ONCE brought in any free agent QB that had even the most remote chance of challenging him for the starting job. FOUR YEARS!!! It is even more amazing that in spite of the straw man competitors to his job that were brought in HE STILL MANAGED TO LOSE IT TWICE!!! I would have rather dealt with some of JP's bone headed moves and gaffs while letting it rip and trying to win a game than watching the slow, painful, ball-less death that was Trent Edwards. What could have been if JP was given the endorsement of Bill Walsh and the blind faith and support of the front office. Might have turned that kid around. Wow. Losman still can't get a job in the NFL. One of the few things the Bills have done right in recent years is cutting ties with him when they did. They were wrong to keep Trent for another year, that does not justify keeping Losman. We deserve better.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 AS much as i was a supporter of JP he wasnt able to take advantage of his chances...i still think he was handled poorly and should have been allowed to play thru his struggles but at the end of the day he just didnt get it done..neither did Trent....happens all the time in the NFL
marauderswr80 Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 it pains me to say this but I've gotta........ we are 1 quality owner "who cares about winning" we are 5 plus OL and 5 plus DL we are 3 plus WR's we are 1 solidified HC and an entire front office away from being revelant in the NFL again. basically...we need SEVERAL things to happen to be good. The front office has had every chance to make the team better. However for whatever reason our owner has neglected to do anything. The T.O. Thing was to low ball the fans to sell tickets, that's what it was. The C.J. Spiller pick, most exciting player in the draft...we take him over desperate needs. Will spiller be good? Sure....when he leaves the bills for greener pasture. To say the 2010 draft was good is a joke, we basically drafted a player to sell tickets, then after drafted kids who don't see the field...that sets a franchise back years. This past draft set the team back 3 years if not more. Name one guy NOT named spiller that will produce? I mean hell right now spiller hasn't done anything, but it's tough when you get the ball handed to you once a game. You heard me....we gave the most explosive player in the draft the ball once...that has WTF written all over it. bottom line get a new young owner who wants and is willing to do what it takes to put a winning team on the field for it's fans...Ralphs continues to suck money from our hard earned pay checks. if I was an owner of the Bills I'd put every single breathe it took to put a winner on the field....and I wouldn't stop till the day I died.....i would never be content....
thewildrabbit Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I don't think either Joe Montana or Dan Marino would survive with this offensive line. Jauron and his band of clowns ruined both JP and Edwards... Both Edwards and JP have the David Carr-syndrome in that after so many hits and sacks they now hear phantom footsteps and get nervous feet. Perhaps if given a solid O line and running game they might start showing promise, otoh they both might revert after getting hit a few times. Drew Bledsoe was that way, he was a fierce QB until he was hit a few times in a game, hit him hard and early and the game is over. Time to move on...
PDaDdy Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 If letting Losman go was a mistake, the Bills have every opportunity to correct it. Losman's current status is "cut," so he's there for whichever NFL team wants him. No one has signed him so far--even as a #3. But just because he's not good enough to even make anyone else's roster doesn't mean he can't be the long-term answer as a starter here in Buffalo. We acquired our starting RT by signing a player no one else wanted. Why not get our starting QB that way as well? That ship sailed. I don't think I want to go back down that road. Hahaha, oh man. Thanks for proving your idiocy on this one, all on your own to boot. Being a revisionist historian must be fun. Maddog69 is right - just because Edwards sucks doesn't mean Losman could play. Losman sucked as well. Then again, considering the source I am not surprised... Go back under you rock Leo. All you do is spit venom and offer nothing.
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