Vick

[John Cocktosten]

OK.

First was not trying to be a 'spin doctor'

I guess you have never made a mistake? or did something bad.

look, i asked about his talent.

I am not going to get into religion or even the human nature, but if neither one of you can forgive a man, expect the same treatment out of life.

Oh and once again, i think what he did to those animals was disgusting. He was judged by man here on earth, and if you are a religious person, then you know it is not up to us to judge him past that.

Regardles of that, is he better then what the Bills have talent wise now.

And is he more of a proven talent then a first rounder in next years draft?

Quit calling this a mistake. Is premeditated murder a mistake? The only reason why he is sorry is because he was caught or else he would still be killing dogs on a daily basis.

 

How do you know that he's truly remorseful? Do you know him personally or hangout with him? If you think people can change who they are overnight you haven't lived very long.

 

I am not "religious" but I'm not a sociopath either. To drown a dog in a 5 gallon bucket is unfathomable to me. Forgiveness is one thing but to be rewarded because you "paid your debt" is totally different.

 

And that comes to your final statement about how he is more talented than anyone the Bills have. Great buddy, regardless of the type of human he is, football trumps all. Well that's some perspective you have. So if your financial advisor was Bernie Madoff and you were making money off of him but you knew how he was destroying thousands of futures, you'd be fine because he's making you money? That's what is wrong with most of the world today, no one gives a sh*t as long as it doesn't happen to them.

 

 

"Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls."

 

http://premiumblend.net/2008/11/25/michael-vicks-bad-newz-kennels-—-a-heartless-enthusiast-of-barbaric-pit-bull-fights/

 

Go ahead and read the USDA report for yourself. It's a quick read and then ask yourself if you want him wearing a Bills uniform.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/more-michael-vick-barbarism-bared?page=2

[Dawgg]

How do you know that he's truly remorseful? Do you know him personally or hangout with him? If you think people can change who they are overnight you haven't lived very long.

He doesn't have to be remorseful.

He paid his debt to society and now should be able to earn a living. The fact that Andy Reid, one of the best and most classiest coaches in the NFL, gave him a shot reflects that.

Whether the apology was enough to convince YOU is wholly irrelevant.

[John Cocktosten]

He doesn't have to be remorseful.

He paid his debt to society and now should be able to earn a living. The fact that Andy Reid, one of the best and most classiest coaches in the NFL, gave him a shot reflects that.

Whether the apology was enough to convince YOU is wholly irrelevant.

My point was, do you want a scumbag loser WHO TORTURED ANIMALS FOR ENTERTAINMENT just because he plays football well? Pretty simple really.

 

And you're right, he owes me nothing. But that leads back to my other point. People don't give a sh*t what happens to someone else if they're benefiting from it. It's an incredibly sad commentary on the human condition and is the main reason why this country is in the social/financial crisis that it's in.

 

Full disclosure, my Wife and I rescued a dog about a year ago. When we have company we ask them not to shout, clap or yell because my dog starts to shake in fear. He also won't go near a book, paper or magazine because he was beaten repeatedly as a puppy. So I've seen what happens to these dogs first hand.

 

"Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls."

Wow, sounds like a great guy! He's the Josef Mengele of dogs! But imagine him in a shiny blue #7 jersey! What a guy, he scrambles, he's got a rocket arm!

 

If you could rout for a guy who admittedly did this over and over again than the more power to ya.

[Malazan]

Let's see if he can put a whole season together after opponents start preparing for him first, k? His prior work doesn't quite make me a believer.

[UpstateSwagger]

Quit calling this a mistake. Is premeditated murder a mistake? The only reason why he is sorry is because he was caught or else he would still be killing dogs on a daily basis.

 

How do you know that he's truly remorseful? Do you know him personally or hangout with him? If you think people can change who they are overnight you haven't lived very long.

 

I am not "religious" but I'm not a sociopath either. To drown a dog in a 5 gallon bucket is unfathomable to me. Forgiveness is one thing but to be rewarded because you "paid your debt" is totally different.

 

And that comes to your final statement about how he is more talented than anyone the Bills have. Great buddy, regardless of the type of human he is, football trumps all. Well that's some perspective you have. So if your financial advisor was Bernie Madoff and you were making money off of him but you knew how he was destroying thousands of futures, you'd be fine because he's making you money? That's what is wrong with most of the world today, no one gives a sh*t as long as it doesn't happen to them.

 

 

"Twice Vick put family pets into the fighting ring with pit bulls because he “thought it was funny to watch the pit bulls. . . injure or kill the other dogs.” Vick also admitted watching his friends hang, shoot and electrocute pit bulls."

 

http://premiumblend.net/2008/11/25/michael-vicks-bad-newz-kennels-—-a-heartless-enthusiast-of-barbaric-pit-bull-fights/

 

Go ahead and read the USDA report for yourself. It's a quick read and then ask yourself if you want him wearing a Bills uniform.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/more-michael-vick-barbarism-bared?page=2

 

This is what I don't understand about you sanctimonious sort: How can you be so sure he isn't remorseful? You have certainly never met him, and your complete knowledge of this man comes from 30-second sound bites prepared for the sole purpose of sensationalizing within reasonable limits.

 

So, of course, what the guy did was deplorable, but to insist without hesitation that someone cannot possibly be reformed or genuinely remorseful just makes you sound like a myopic blow hard.

 

Maybe you should pick a different sport to be a fan of. You can't possibly enjoy watching a bunch of thugs and miscreants run all over a grass field while collecting millions of dollars.

 

Tell you what, all you holier-than-thou types can pick a church league team to watch that certainly won't let you or your unwavering moral compasses down. I'll take Vick. Our team is instantly better and completely watchable, and at this point, that's all I can ask for.

 

I also don't quite understand this "Vick sucked before the dog incident." Didn't he consistently have his team in playoff contention and, at one point, led his team up to Green Bay in the playoffs and took Favre and the Packers out at Lambeau for the first time in their history?

[atlbillsfan1975]

This is what I don't understand about you sanctimonious sort: How can you be so sure he isn't remorseful? You have certainly never met him, and your complete knowledge of this man comes from 30-second sound bites prepared for the sole purpose of sensationalizing within reasonable limits.

 

So, of course, what the guy did was deplorable, but to insist without hesitation that someone cannot possibly be reformed or genuinely remorseful just makes you sound like a myopic blow hard.

 

Maybe you should pick a different sport to be a fan of. You can't possibly enjoy watching a bunch of thugs and miscreants run all over a grass field while collecting millions of dollars.

 

Tell you what, all you holier-than-thou types can pick a church league team to watch that certainly won't let you or your unwavering moral compasses down. I'll take Vick. Our team is instantly better and completely watchable, and at this point, that's all I can ask for.

 

I also don't quite understand this "Vick sucked before the dog incident." Didn't he consistently have his team in playoff contention and, at one point, led his team up to Green Bay in the playoffs and took Favre and the Packers out at Lambeau for the first time in their history?

 

My thoughts exactly.

I dont want to call John names, but he really is a judgemental S.O.B.

Vick is exciting to watch, if nothing else. He also took the Falcons to the NFC Championship game. With Dan Reeves' offensive play calling.

I think you are going to see what he is really capable of with coaching under Reed.

The dog stuff was terrible. I am not giving him a pass, but if he spends the rest of his life out of trouble and trying to make ammends for it, then who are we to try and keep him down.

Vick is better then any QB the Bills have now. And most likely better then any first year rookie. I dont know about you people, but how much longer you want to wait to win games?

As far as his pre-incarceration days. He was a good qb. I think he never had good coaching. He seems to have, matured on the field some. Not throwing passes 100mph to his outlets. And is learning how to read and react. Let Reed finally teach him how a qb should play. Then let Buffalo benefit from it!

[The_Philster]

Not even God will forgive someone who's not remorseful for the crimes he has committed so anyone preaching that Vick should be forgiven...you're insane.

His favorite phrase has been "It's unfortunate this happened to me," a phrase he's used on at least 3 separate occasions in talking about his crimes...the only thing he feels bad about is getting caught...he thinks of himself as a victim. When he's apologized for his actions, you can almost see the strings being pulled....he's being told what to say with a script in front of him

Edited September 23, 2010 by The_Philster

[UpstateSwagger]

Not even God will forgive someone who's not remorseful for the crimes he has committed so anyone preaching that Vick should be forgiven...you're insane.

His favorite phrase has been "It's unfortunate this happened to me," a phrase he's used on at least 3 separate occasions in talking about his crimes...the only thing he feels bad about is getting caught...he thinks of himself as a victim. When he's apologized for his actions, you can almost see the strings being pulled....he's being told what to say with a script in front of him

 

Again, I just don't see how you have the frame of reference and knowledge of the situation to make comments like that. Try, "I don't think he's remorseful, so I wouldn't want him on this team." Because to entertain the idea that you know what goes on in his head or his level of remorse because you read three snippets is utterly foolish.

 

I think the enraged fringe is being narrow-minded (as usual) and dealing in absolutes (as usual) and everyone knows that only the Sith deal in absolutes.

 

I have fostered dogs from a shelter for years, and I am disgusted by what Michael Vick did, but I still maintain that still so pessimistic and resolute in denying him any ability to change or learn from past behavior is a YOU problem. To be so blindly and sweepingly judgmental about anything is reason enough to look long and hard in the mirror yourself.

 

Oh, and now you not only know how Mike Vick thinks but how God thinks, as well? That's ballsy. In fact, I haven't ever heard that angle taken on the Vick issue.

 

They should feature you on ESPN: Guy Not Only Knows How Vick Feels About Dogs, but How God Feels About Vick!

Edited September 23, 2010 by UpstateSwagger

[BADOLBILZ]

OK. Your talent as a spin doctor are not very good. Vick is a despicable human being, and anyone who even passively condones his behavior, for which he has still offered NO apologies or penance, in my opinion is capable of doing exactly what he did and should get hit by the same bus. How's that?

 

 

I actively condoned some bacon and eggs this am. A pepper was also harmed.

 

Dogs are subservient to humans, but are otherwise predatory to all other species. Particularly the tasty ones. If your role was reversed, your dog wouldn't keep you as a pet. He would eat you.

 

Pets have their place, and being cruel to them is anti-social behavior, but it's also perverse and anti-social to value human life less than animal life.

[reddogblitz]

no

[Bob in STL]

Now i am the first one to think what he did off the field was horrible. I have two awesome dogs myself. And i lived here in Atl, and watched how he almost single handedly brought down the Falcons. Petrino helped.

But after watching him some the first two games, he seems to still have the talent. It looks like he is also being coached up by Reid and his staff.

Vick is saying all the right things. In an interview yesterday, he said all he wants is a chance to be a starter for a team next year.

With him and Spiller in the backfield. You could spend your first couple picks on OL, maybe start to have something. Vick is still young.

Thoughts? and please focus on talent people.

 

 

No Vick. Not this year and not next year. We will not pay for Vick and he probably would not not to come here even if we did.

 

No Vick. Next year we draft a QB and if we need someone as a stop gap it will be someone cheaper and lower profile.

 

No Vick. OK?

[Guest dog14787]

Reid has a soft spot for Mike Vicks redemption http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahd7tzpAnnjF5nG9FMJOUSJDubYF?slug=ms-32questions092210

 

 

Michael Silver : Obviously, as a journalist, I can’t reveal the details of that conversation. But I don’t think Reid would mind me sharing that he related Vick’s attempts at rebounding from adversity and becoming a better person to some of the highly publicized issues that have plagued the coach’s family.

Edited September 23, 2010 by dog14787

[atlbillsfan1975]

No Vick. Not this year and not next year. We will not pay for Vick and he probably would not not to come here even if we did.

 

No Vick. Next year we draft a QB and if we need someone as a stop gap it will be someone cheaper and lower profile.

 

No Vick. OK?

Ok.

This is a good argueement.

Thank you.

And i am not being a smart ass.

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

You will NEVER get a straight football answer about michael vick on TBD sorry it's just not gonna happen. It's way too many cry babies, racial people and just plain old people who don't want to see a person make peace with society. You can tell who those people are because they pop up with the same sayings every time "Vick is a sick person" or "Vick is a scumbag he is not sorry for what he has done" blah blah blah how are you gonna say he's not sorry? Those people are just mad he is actually sorry and that he is trying to get his life back in order and succeeding. Football wise yes he'd make us a playoff team but with a great o-line in front of him dare I say maybe a superbowl? who knows? But you'll never get a football answer about mike. I do know one thing tho Micheal compared to trentative, fitzinmyballs or broom is not even a fair case all 3 of our qbs wouldn't be allowed to give Micheal a haircut let alone start in front of him in the NFL...

 

"Please do not reply to me because I will not reply back, too many sensitive cry-babies on here they may get me deleted again sorry"

 

Have a great night!

Edited September 23, 2010 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23

[John Cocktosten]

This is what I don't understand about you sanctimonious sort: How can you be so sure he isn't remorseful?

Uhhh...his history of lying and getting into trouble. I guess I'm just going off of human behavior. If you know anything about the human condition you would know that it takes decades to undo what has been programmed into you since childhood. Have you ever heard of the saying "ya can't teach an old dog new tricks"? Fitting, isn't it? To act in such a sociopathic way that you WOULD THROW FAMILY PETS INTO A RING WITH PIT BULLS WHO ARE TRAINED TO KILL isn't washed from you with a year of psych sessions and some jail time. Are you really that stupid?

 

So, of course, what the guy did was deplorable, but to insist without hesitation that someone cannot possibly be reformed or genuinely remorseful just makes you sound like a myopic blow hard.

What does mypopathy have to do with this? Do you think that only animal lovers are outraged? If you think he is reformed than you are incredibly naive and the fact that you think he is reformed means that you are painfully stupid (if you're going to call me names I will gladly point out your complete lack of intelligence.)

 

Maybe you should pick a different sport to be a fan of. You can't possibly enjoy watching a bunch of thugs and miscreants run all over a grass field while collecting millions of dollars.

My friend, the fact that you cannot differentiate between what he did and what others have done makes me think that I'm arguing with someone who drools into a cup for a living

 

Tell you what, all you holier-than-thou types can pick a church league team to watch that certainly won't let you or your unwavering moral compasses down. I'll take Vick. Our team is instantly better and completely watchable, and at this point, that's all I can ask for.

This goes back to my point that people don't give a sh*t what happens to someone else as long as they're benefiting from it. Your Mother must be proud

 

If you can cheer for a guy like Mike Vick just because he makes your POS team better than that says a lot about you. I'm not a church goer and I'm hardly liberal, I'm a human being and sometimes life trumps sports. You are so shallow that I feel terrible for you.

 

Here's what your boy was doing in his downtime before he was caught:

In mid-April of 2007, Vick, Peace and Phillips hung approximately three dogs who did not perform well in a "rolling session," which indicates the readiness of a dog to fight. According to the report, the three men hung the dogs "by placing a nylon cord over a 2 X 4 that was nailed to two trees located next to the big shed. They also drowned approximately three dogs by putting the dogs' heads in a five gallon bucket of water."

 

But we have such a bad offensive line and he'd be a perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BADOLBILZ]

Ok.

This is a good argueement.

Thank you.

And i am not being a smart ass.

 

It *might* be a good argument if the Buffalo Bills, or "we" in this example, would utilize common sense in the draft and free agency.

[Adam]

If you read the thread on the other board, not only should we condemn Vick for what he did, but hold it against all NFL players as well.

 

Vick has repeatedly shown that he isn't a very good person and that he is a streaky QB. If he can repeatedly show that he has changed, then I don't know that he has earned forgiveness, but maybe the benefit of the doubt. People can change- I hope he can.

[John Cocktosten]

You will NEVER get a straight football answer about michael vick on TBD sorry it's just not gonna happen. It's way too many cry babies, racial people and just plain old people who don't want to see a person make peace with society. You can tell who those people are because they pop up with the same sayings every time "Vick is a sick person" or "Vick is a scumbag he is not sorry for what he has done" blah blah blah how are you gonna say he's not sorry? Those people are just mad he is actually sorry and that he is trying to get his life back in order and succeeding. Football wise yes he'd make us a playoff team but with a great o-line in front of him dare I say maybe a superbowl? who knows? But you'll never get a football answer about mike. I do know one thing tho Micheal compared to trentative, fitzinmyballs or broom is not even a fair case all 3 of our qbs wouldn't be allowed to give Micheal a haircut let alone start in front of him in the NFL...

When all else fails, play the race card! Brilliant! If you think that people are outraged because a black man did this you're wrong and ignorant. Big Ben was suspended without being charged let alone being convicted.

 

Vick initially told authorities "while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs," but "helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side," according to the report.

However, the report says Vick took back that statement when he failed a polygraph test. "Vick failed the examination as it related to the killing of the dogs in April 2007. Ultimately, Vick recanted his previous statement wherein he said he was not actually involved in the killing of six to eight dogs. ... Vick admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs."

 

No way, he tells the truth only when he is caught? But he is a totally different guy now!!!

And he gets out of the pocket and makes plays!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UpstateSwagger]

What does mypopathy have to do with this? Do you think that only animal lovers are outraged? If you think he is reformed than you are incredibly naive and the fact that you think he is reformed means that you are painfully stupid (if you're going to call me names I will gladly point out your complete lack of intelligence.)

 

 

My friend, the fact that you cannot differentiate between what he did and what others have done makes me think that I'm arguing with someone who drools into a cup for a living

 

 

This goes back to my point that people don't give a sh*t what happens to someone else as long as they're benefiting from it. Your Mother must be proud

 

If you can cheer for a guy like Mike Vick just because he makes your POS team better than that says a lot about you. I'm not a church goer and I'm hardly liberal, I'm a human being and sometimes life trumps sports. You are so shallow that I feel terrible for you.

 

Here's what your boy was doing in his downtime before he was caught:

In mid-April of 2007, Vick, Peace and Phillips hung approximately three dogs who did not perform well in a "rolling session," which indicates the readiness of a dog to fight. According to the report, the three men hung the dogs "by placing a nylon cord over a 2 X 4 that was nailed to two trees located next to the big shed. They also drowned approximately three dogs by putting the dogs' heads in a five gallon bucket of water."

 

But we have such a bad offensive line and he'd be a perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Listen you mouth breathing low life. Let's not banter about intelligence; your argument is not an argument at all. It is a regurgitation of what you have said over and over since the beginning of this -- and I'm sure countless other threads.

 

Answer some fundamental questions you whackadoo fascist prick. How can you turn the TV on every Sunday and support a league that employs the likes of rapists, murderers, woman beaters and recidivist offenders playing on half the teams? Do you not care for humanity? Sometimes it's hard to understand how people can be so judgmental and close-minded, but then again I figure your penance, and people with similar world views, is that you have to walk around hating everything you see. What a miserable way to live!

 

And don't give me your human condition crap. Forgiveness and remorse are as human as it gets!

[John Cocktosten]

Listen you mouth breathing low life.

Answer some fundamental questions you whackadoo fascist prick. How can you turn the TV on every Sunday and support a league that employs the likes of rapists, murderers, woman beaters and recidivist offenders playing on half the teams? Do you not care for humanity? Sometimes it's hard to understand how people can be so judgmental and close-minded, but then again I figure your penance, and people with similar world views, is that you have to walk around hating everything you see. What a miserable way to live!

 

And don't give me your human condition crap. Forgiveness and remorse are as human as it gets!

Mouth breathing low-life? Well I feel terrible!

 

Who are these rapists and murderers you speak of? Believe me, losers like Leonard Little should not be allowed to play football plain and simple. And if the Bills were going to sign Ray Caruth in his prime after what he did then I would no longer be a fan.

 

How can you not be judgmental about a career low life like Mike Vick? This is the same guy who has knowingly passed on the herps to women right? Same guy who has repeatedly lied when given the chance? The same guy who started, funded and executed a criminal gambling ring? Well if you don't stand in judgment of sub-humans like him, let anarchy reign!

 

Remorse for remorse sakes isn't remorse dummy. He would still be hanging, electrocuting and drowning dogs if he wasn't caught. Why don't you take your animal and spend a holiday with the Vick's so they can toss into a ring and laugh while it happens. Forgiveness is relative...hopefully you never are in a spot where you can't forgive someone!

Edited September 23, 2010 by John Cocktosten