answer to real debate: Oline or QB

[Sisyphean Bills]

So here's another viewpoint: Maybe the two are directly related and both point at the QB in a way I don't recall seeing discussed here before.

 

I've been reading Kirwan's "Take your Eye Off the Ball" (fantastic read in my opinion). He discusses the need to call the OL protections on each play then goes on to discuss how on some teams, the very experienced center will call the protections in response to his own read on the D and the specific play. But for other teams or the same team with a less experienced center, that responsibility falls more to the QB to call the protections for the OL.

 

We've talked about how Trent seems to really struggle with reading a 3-4 D. Sometimes the last two games, the O-line has looked analogous to a "blown coverage" in my view....it wasn't always that the OTs weren't executing assignments, it looked as though *there was an unblocked player no one had picked up*. That got me wondering: who is calling the protections for our OL?

 

Is it possible that Trent has been responsible for calling the protections for the O-line, and that one reason they blow so badly is his confusion with 3-4 D extends to the protections he's supposed to call? Could this be possible?

I suspect Hangman calls the protections. He was brought in to Buffalo because of his smarts (not because he is physically dominant).

 

In the first game, I saw times that I think Geoff was the only one that knew the protection he had called though. At least his head was swiveling back and forth like: "What the !@#$ are these guys DOING?!?"

Edited September 20, 2010 by Sisyphean Bills

[gobillsinytown]

there has been a huge debate over the last year or so on which is more important: the oline or qb: and i have the answer for you....it can be both in different situations..... in the process of trent being benched it really got me thinking of this question and what the answer is......the truth is that you should first build the oline to be able to protect your young quarterback so he can learn and be brought up, which is the best thing to do but that isnt always the case. with trent its obvious that he had a "slim" amount of talent but it was basically unobtainable because he couldnt develop behind a bad oline....on the otherhand people believe that with a good quarterback you dont even need a good oline and that is true as well. if you have an already developed quarterback and put him behind a s**tty oline there is a good chance you will still succeed in this league....i.e warner and rapelisberger. to sum it up you need a good oline to develop a qb but if u have an already good qb u do not always need one....it can go both ways

 

I think it's a matter of timing. You get your "franchise" QB just as you're beginning to develop your O-line. In this team's case, drafting a "franchise" QB this year would have been a waste, as well as bringing in a free agent, becasue any QB is going to get killed behind this line. I think you have to have at least something resembling a cohesive unit before you put a rookie back there, and I don't think any of the available free agent QB's this year would have been able to help.

This seems to be the pattern of the elite teams: Begin to build your line, then bring in the QB, so you're building them both together.

Sadly, it looks like the Bills will have the opportunity to get the "franchise" in next year's draft...if there is a next year.

[DFITZ1]

there has been a huge debate over the last year or so on which is more important: the oline or qb: and i have the answer for you....it can be both in different situations..... in the process of trent being benched it really got me thinking of this question and what the answer is......the truth is that you should first build the oline to be able to protect your young quarterback so he can learn and be brought up, which is the best thing to do but that isnt always the case. with trent its obvious that he had a "slim" amount of talent but it was basically unobtainable because he couldnt develop behind a bad oline....on the otherhand people believe that with a good quarterback you dont even need a good oline and that is true as well. if you have an already developed quarterback and put him behind a s**tty oline there is a good chance you will still succeed in this league....i.e warner and rapelisberger. to sum it up you need a good oline to develop a qb but if u have an already good qb u do not always need one....it can go both ways

 

From watching the Bills since 1966, there is no question that success begins along the line of scrimmage. Despite universal hatred for him, OJ Simpson is a resounding example. His first 3 years were a disaster because he had no OL support. He constantly outran blockers on sweeps because he couldn't run that slow or they got beat. Once Lou Saban came back and began acquiring o-lineman (Joe D, Reggie McK, et al), he led the AFC the next year and gained 2003 the next (a feat that may not be repeated yet thru 14 games). I saw the same thing happening again when they drafted Spiller, no line = no production, a wasted pick. And guess what, Fitz won't look great behind this line either. Bill Parcells build teams on the line of scrimmage first. Right now, I'd take one of his bad years.

[BobDVA]

The glaring weakness of Captain Checkdown will only strengthen the O-Line, as the ball will get thrown rather than held.

[Billy in 4C]

It's both. The Oline is bad but even when they gave Trent time he checked down.

 

PTR

 

Exactly. They both are garbage. The only real debate is which is worse, but that's just splitting hairs.

[catsnbills]

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s@@t. The Steelers are 2-0 and down to their fourth string QB. The QB is given too much credit and gets too much blame. You need a solid football team and you start with the guys up front.

[Big Turk]

there has been a huge debate over the last year or so on which is more important: the oline or qb: and i have the answer for you....it can be both in different situations..... in the process of trent being benched it really got me thinking of this question and what the answer is......the truth is that you should first build the oline to be able to protect your young quarterback so he can learn and be brought up, which is the best thing to do but that isnt always the case. with trent its obvious that he had a "slim" amount of talent but it was basically unobtainable because he couldnt develop behind a bad oline....on the otherhand people believe that with a good quarterback you dont even need a good oline and that is true as well. if you have an already developed quarterback and put him behind a s**tty oline there is a good chance you will still succeed in this league....i.e warner and rapelisberger. to sum it up you need a good oline to develop a qb but if u have an already good qb u do not always need one....it can go both ways

 

There is only a debate for people that don't understand football. Good QBs make plays regardless. Might not make as many, or get sacked a few more times, but they still look like good QBs. Edwards hasn't resembled an NFL QB at all in the past 2 years...If Jim Kelly was behind this OLine, he would still be a good QB...just might not be able to make enough plays to win, but he would still be good.

Edited September 21, 2010 by matter2003

[Roc Bronson]

We will see come April. And with the 1st round pick the Buffalo Bills select ___________? And what's funny about it all is no matter what direction we go it will not be good enough for this board! Face it people we are devastated with the Bills.. 0-16

[Dr. Trooth]

Just another comment. If the Oline stinks so bad, then how come Fred Jackson has a career average of 4.5 y/carry? And, why does Lynch have a 4.0 career y/carry? Aren't those are fairly respectable stats?

 

On the other hand... bring a decent and instinctive QB and he should make the players around him better. Too bad that QB ain't on the roster today.

[timba]

With the rare exception, your offense will not be able to run on a less than mediocre O-Line. That being said, if you have the opportunity to acquire a franchise QB you take them immediately. I believe it is easier to find serviceable lineman than QB's. Unfortunately as of now, we have neither.