Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 As to the italicized: http://b27.cc.trinco...p1b_belief.html So, not quite 90%, I suppose, but close. I should do better research - I've heard that number thrown around so much. I now have slightly increased faith in my fellow Americans.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Ok, I'll play along... Bolded - Not what you said, and it is indeed a backpedal. It's just their steadfast belief in the face of overwhelming evidence that is quite stupid IMO. vs. It's just their steadfast belief despite a complete lack of evidence that is quite stupid IMO. I guess, but you're really getting picky here...is this a 'I was right' kind of thing? Italicized - Link please Thank god there are fewer believers than I thought! Bolded and italicized - Tis a matter of faith. By definition you cannot prove it. Sad really, you usually are a better poster than that. I doubt you'll find a post of mine claiming that religion is anything more than a matter of "faith" or something than can be proved or disproved. Without any evidence, why do people feel the need to introduce a complex being called god into the equation and just assume its existence?
Chef Jim Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Without any evidence, why do people feel the need to introduce a complex being called god into the equation and just assume its existence? Because it works for them and helps them get through life. And I don't understand why you have such a problem with that. I do not believe but I would never judge someone by what they believe in or don't believe in. If it works for them and makes them a better person or makes their life better who cares.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Because it works for them and helps them get through life. And I don't understand why you have such a problem with that. I do not believe but I would never judge someone by what they believe in or don't believe in. If it works for them and makes them a better person or makes their life better who cares. Right, the "what's the harm?" argument. I agree with you right up until that part because I see most of the world's major problems rooted in organized religion. Religion has absolute authority and the power to control. In the absence of a god, men wield that power to meet their own often-twisted goals. For example, I think it would have been more difficult for Father Murphy to rape 200 deaf boys if he didn't have the backing of "god": http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/23/deaf-victim-of-sex-abuse-is-suing-pope-and-going-public-with-his-story-for-the-first-time/?hpt=C1
LeviF Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Without any evidence, why do people feel the need to introduce a complex being called god into the equation and just assume its existence? Believe it or not (see what I did there? ) our human minds seemingly demand explanations for everything (especially our origins). Some people do that by throwing in a creator, who hit the first domino, so to speak. People like Chef, you, and I squelch this demand, and are satisfied with an "I don't know" when it comes to the beginning of the universe. However, when people make the leap of faith (thanks, Kierkegaard), I do not believe that they are "weak" or "stupid." To me, they are simply fulfilling another demand (although it may be comparatively minor) made by their brain. Perhaps this fulfilling of the demand is one of the reasons why religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people.
Peace Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Right, the "what's the harm?" argument. I agree with you right up until that part because I see most of the world's major problems rooted in organized religion. Religion has absolute authority and the power to control. In the absence of a god, men wield that power to meet their own often-twisted goals. For example, I think it would have been more difficult for Father Murphy to rape 200 deaf boys if he didn't have the backing of "god": http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/23/deaf-victim-of-sex-abuse-is-suing-pope-and-going-public-with-his-story-for-the-first-time/?hpt=C1 God is spending the US to oblivion? God isn't the problem. People are.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Believe it or not (see what I did there? ) our human minds seemingly demand explanations for everything (especially our origins). Some people do that by throwing in a creator, who hit the first domino, so to speak. People like Chef, you, and I squelch this demand, and are satisfied with an "I don't know" when it comes to the beginning of the universe. However, when people make the leap of faith (thanks, Kierkegaard), I do not believe that they are "weak" or "stupid." To me, they are simply fulfilling another demand (although it may be comparatively minor) made by their brain. Perhaps this fulfilling of the demand is one of the reasons why religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people. The irony is that the demand is likely brought about by an evolutionary advantage to "needing to belong to a larger group". Groups working together were more successful than individuals over time, and that's why this human trait won out. Evolution begets Evolution denial. Given that, this need does not make necessarily people "weak" (which I never said) or maybe even "stupid". It does however make most people intellectually dishonest or at least emotionally incapable of questioning what they've been taught to believe. Such people allow their basic instinct and inborn-tendencies to dominate their rational mind. My hope is that this type of dialog prompts people to wake and at least consider seeing things as they are and not just wholly accept stories from some ancient book. God is spending the US to oblivion? God isn't the problem. People are. People hiding behind god, invoking god to justify their actions or controlling the masses with the name of god is the problem.
Joe Miner Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 The irony is that the demand is likely brought about by an evolutionary advantage to "needing to belong to a larger group". Groups working together were more successful than individuals over time, and that's why this human trait won out. Evolution begets Evolution denial. Given that, this need does not make necessarily people "weak" (which I never said) or maybe even "stupid". It does however make most people intellectually dishonest or at least emotionally incapable of questioning what they've been taught to believe. Such people allow their basic instinct and inborn-tendencies to dominate their rational mind. My hope is that this type of dialog prompts people to wake and at least consider seeing things as they are and not just wholly accept stories from some ancient book. People hiding behind god, invoking god to justify their actions or controlling the masses with the name of god is the problem. Quite the narcistic bigot aren't you?
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Quite the narcistic bigot aren't you? No more than most here. Care to argue a point or just attack?
LeviF Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 The irony is that the demand is likely brought about by an evolutionary advantage to "needing to belong to a larger group". Groups working together were more successful than individuals over time, and that's why this human trait won out. I don't doubt it. Evolution begets Evolution denial. Don'tcha just love it? Given that, this need does not make necessarily people "weak" (which I never said) or maybe even "stupid". It does however make most people intellectually dishonest or at least emotionally incapable of questioning what they've been taught to believe. Such people allow their basic instinct and inborn-tendencies to dominate their rational mind. My hope is that this type of dialog prompts people to wake and at least consider seeing things as they are and not just wholly accept stories from some ancient book. Not sure if I'd say that "most people" end up this way. A large amount, certainly, but I know many believers that have had doubts and have re-examined their faith at one time or another.
Joe Miner Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 No more than most here. Care to argue a point or just attack? What's to argue? You don't like relgion or religious people. You think religion has fostered more bad than good in the world. You think people that are religious have less ability to self-examine their feelings and beliefs. These aren't topics for debate. These are your narcistic bigoted feelings. The only thing that could be "argued" is whether religion has done more good or bad. But that's a retarded issue, because it's completely subjective, and in no way provable either way. It's just a conduit for you to troll up an argument and continue your anti-religion crusade. "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." So, no, I'll not argue with you. Just wanted to point out your self-love and sense of superiority along with your bitter dislike of those with differing views from yourself. Have fun crusading.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 What's to argue? You don't like relgion or religious people. You think religion has fostered more bad than good in the world. You think people that are religious have less ability to self-examine their feelings and beliefs. These aren't topics for debate. These are your narcistic bigoted feelings. The only thing that could be "argued" is whether religion has done more good or bad. But that's a retarded issue, because it's completely subjective, and in no way provable either way. It's just a conduit for you to troll up an argument and continue your anti-religion crusade. "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." So, no, I'll not argue with you. Just wanted to point out your self-love and sense of superiority along with your bitter dislike of those with differing views from yourself. Have fun crusading. Nice response. I'm just trying to make sense of it all like the rest and this just happens to be a topic I have strong opinions about. Oh well.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. - Carl Sagan Still waiting on the extraordinary evidence of the lack of the Divine.
blzrul Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 1) Ah the party whose main purpose is to take us back to the 50's has dusted off the good old Contract With America concept. Yippee. 2) Religion is stupid. If it comforts YOU, great. Keep it to yourself. I prefer to deal with God directly.
Peace Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Still waiting on the extraordinary evidence of the lack of the Divine. So we are supposed to prove the existence of something without physical manifestation? If people want to believe, that's fine. No one can prove the existence of god. You don't know if he exists no matter how much you want it to be true. At some absurd extreme, I can't prove he doesn't, any more than I can't prove that a pair of Nike sneakers aren't inside a grammaphone under a dead whale's stomach on Mars.
Gene Frenkle Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Still waiting on the extraordinary evidence of the lack of the Divine. Joe, we've been through this before. I'm not the one making the extraordinary claim here, so it's not on me to disprove anything.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Joe, we've been through this before. I'm not the one making the extraordinary claim here, so it's not on me to disprove anything. Actually it is. You're claiming beyond the shadow of a doubt that the existence of a Divine Being is IMPOSSIBLE. Prove it. You can't.
LeviF Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Actually it is. You're claiming beyond the shadow of a doubt that the existence of a Divine Being is IMPOSSIBLE. Pardon my ignorance, but he said that?!
Chef Jim Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 1) Ah the party whose main purpose is to take us back to the 50's has dusted off the good old Contract With America concept. Yippee. 2) Religion is stupid. If it comforts YOU, great. Keep it to yourself. I prefer to deal with God directly. I don't get it. How can something that comforts people be great and stupid? Welcome back Deb, we've missed ya.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Pardon my ignorance, but he said that?! In previous threads. More recently he's said belief is equivalent to "fairy tales" which are, by definition, fictitious and impossible.
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