Are Bills games really that family unfriendly?

[CodeMonkey]

I think someone else said it already, but 95% of people are probably great.

Very true, but 5% of 70000 people is still 3500 !@#$s. More than enough to litter every section with several.

 

Like you I did my share of drinking back in the day, though I was never stumbling drunk at any sporting event. I have no problem if people decide to get annihilated in the parking lot (as long as they aren't driving) and going to the game if they so choose. And they shouldn't be upset if they are tossed from the game or worse if they become obnoxious (disorderly conduct is still a crime is it not?). If I don't like the behavior of people attending an event, I just don't go. It's only football after all.

 

But that said, I still don't like the idea of the NFL doing things like harassing long time fans like Kenny. If the Bills decide something is wrong and they want to do something about it, then fine. But King Roger and his boyfriends should stay the hell out of though in my opinion.

Edited September 17, 2010 by CodeMonkey

[wardigital]

Again, you dodge the question.

 

I can assure you I'm literate. However, i fail to see where it says being drunk is against the law? I fail to see where it says being drunk is against the fan conduct policy.

 

I know you're literate, that's why I know you've read the Fan Conduct Policy, which is why I know you know that what you're advocating is not only a violation of the public laws outside of the stadium, but the rules your govern your conduct inside the stadium.

[Dr. Fong]

Depends where you sit. Some fans make it pretty scary. That said, must everything be like Disney World? Not everyplace needs to be family friendly.

 

PTR

 

 

Exactly my sentiments. As an adult there are certain things I just enjoy doing without worrying about what impact its having on someone's kids.

[BillsFanNC]

ty

 

finally

 

i dont agree with the parents that feel they have to shelter their kids from everything. my sister doesnt even allow us to say words like 'stupid' or 'hate' around her kids, which i think is just incredibly silly. kids arent stupid. they need to see that some other people act like jerks, and youre right its a teachable moment - youre there with them so reinforce that as the behavior that makes them look and sound and be bad

 

you cant live in a plastic bubble and expect to come out well adjusted

 

Why is the focus on profanity and lack of equilibrium with the drunks? Those are the least of my concerns when considering taking my son to a game. I have witnessed fans getting puked and pissed on more than once. I have seen women stripping in the concourse (granted they were swiftly dealt with by security). Last week there was an equally drunk and obnoxious Miami fan goading the entire section from the row directly in front of me. As people started throwing stuff at him I caught a fair amount of shrapnel, not a safe place for a kid to be. I could go on, but none of that stuff would I consider "teachable moments" for my kid. Like I have said before, when I walk through those gates I always have a buzz going, but I'm still able to act like a civilized human being. I don't care how much in the minority the unrluy drunks are, there should be zero tolerance for that type of behavior.

[Erik Flowers]

I know you're literate, that's why I know you've read the Fan Conduct Policy, which is why I know you know that what you're advocating is not only a violation of the public laws outside of the stadium, but the rules your govern your conduct inside the stadium.

 

Public Drunkeness is not a crime - we had that law, but it was ruled unconstitutional more than 30 years ago.

[wardigital]

And yes! You do indeed become "undrunk" after a long period without additional consumption of alcohol. The body truly is a magical thing!

 

And, it gets even better! People who drink can also choose to allow others to drive them home. People who haven't consumed any alcoholic beverages at all! Amazing!

 

Except that people are consuming so much alcohol that three hours is not enough time to possibly rid them of their uncontrollable urge to act like a buffoon! Hooray! And we know that people that drink do not always make the most logical or responsible choices, particularly in regards to their liver, or, you know, driving. Yipee!

[sharper802]

No one goes to Jax games, you will be fine. If people bother you take the tarp off one of the multiple sections of seats they can't sell.

I am a life long Bills fan and taking my kids to the Oct 10th game against Jax in Buffalo. I expect they will have a good time and we should be able to keep them safe and avoid any rude behavior. But I will have no quams about getting someone tossed from the stadium if they are acting like an ass. Everyone knows the line.

[K Gun Special]

I know you're literate, that's why I know you've read the Fan Conduct Policy, which is why I know you know that what you're advocating is not only a violation of the public laws outside of the stadium, but the rules your govern your conduct inside the stadium.

 

 

What part of the conduct policy states you cant be drunk? im not advocating drinking or any type of behavior.

Drinking is fine unless the line is crossed. By law and by conduct policy.

 

Im just wondering where you are getting this.... i mean specifics? Its obviously not against the conduct policy to be simply drunk on stadium grounds. Rowdy behavior is against policy.

[wardigital]

Public Drunkeness is not a crime - we had that law, but it was ruled unconstitutional more than 30 years ago.

 

I am referring to harassment, public disturbance and a litany of other transgressions that could serve to make a person's day less pleasant. These things would almost certainly not stand up in court, but it is, in my opinion, worth it to give the hassle to the people.

 

Last year while crossing over into the Ralph I saw in a single crossing two women flash the crowd, as well as a 250 or so pound Browns fan pull down his pants and threaten to take a ****, right there on the spot.

 

If it were up to me (and thank goodness for some of you that it's not), as the Bills I would encourage the police to cite these people for just about any infraction that they can think of as a matter of course, and then on the grounds, enforce a war-time like strategy against drunkenness. Limit, as best one could, the sale of alcohol to three alcoholic drinks per person per game (there are obviously ways to skirt this), and so on.

 

Whoever mentioned that 95% of people in the stadium are great is, for the most part, correct. I would say it's more like 90%, but the point stands. And it's that 5-10% that ruin it for many more, and these are generally the same people who ruin the experience on the message board for others, and several people have talked about.

 

I think the idea of having non-drinking and drinking sections would be a decent idea, in that I think the family section system and having family night as a pre-season is broken in a way and does not really allow families to have the experience that they'd like.

 

Bills fans, interestingly, are incredibly cordial as a group nationally. I've never traveled anywhere, or seen a game on the road anywhere, where Bills fans were misbehaved. We travel extremely well. Interestingly, I'd say the opposite for the Sabres. I've had a very docile experience with Sabres fans at the HBSC, and have really been ashamed of the way some traveling fans or Sabres fans in other cities behave toward their fellow sport-goer. It's an interesting thing to think about.

[akm0404]

Except that people are consuming so much alcohol that three hours is not enough time to possibly rid them of their uncontrollable urge to act like a buffoon! Hooray! And we know that people that drink do not always make the most logical or responsible choices, particularly in regards to their liver, or, you know, driving. Yipee!

 

Well, at least your silly made up arguments have morphed to a discussion on whether drinking and driving is a logical and responsible choice. Congratulations, we agree on that one. But saying that driving while impaired is wrong has nothing to do with the original discussion you were having - the one where you called the Ralph some sort of cesspool overflowing with vomit, or was it a hell zone? I forget.

[DrDawkinstein]

Fortunately the sane and the reasonable parents have arrived to put those looking for a new era of Prohibition in their place

 

Three cheers for responsible, free-thinking people!

 

Since your argument seems to be so black and white, and since you want to exaggerate the oppositions argument, are you honestly saying that the behavior listed in this thread does NOT happen at the Bills games?

 

Are you going on record saying that there are not drunk people pissing at their seats and throwing up on people at all?

 

Do you really think the rest of us are making that up just because we want to ruin the good time of "responsible" people?

Edited September 17, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[K Gun Special]

I am referring to harassment, public disturbance and a litany of other transgressions that could serve to make a person's day less pleasant. These things would almost certainly not stand up in court, but it is, in my opinion, worth it to give the hassle to the people.

 

Last year while crossing over into the Ralph I saw in a single crossing two women flash the crowd, as well as a 250 or so pound Browns fan pull down his pants and threaten to take a ****, right there on the spot.

 

If it were up to me (and thank goodness for some of you that it's not), as the Bills I would encourage the police to cite these people for just about any infraction that they can think of as a matter of course, and then on the grounds, enforce a war-time like strategy against drunkenness. Limit, as best one could, the sale of alcohol to three alcoholic drinks per person per game (there are obviously ways to skirt this), and so on.

 

Whoever mentioned that 95% of people in the stadium are great is, for the most part, correct. I would say it's more like 90%, but the point stands. And it's that 5-10% that ruin it for many more, and these are generally the same people who ruin the experience on the message board for others, and several people have talked about.

 

I think the idea of having non-drinking and drinking sections would be a decent idea, in that I think the family section system and having family night as a pre-season is broken in a way and does not really allow families to have the experience that they'd like.

 

Bills fans, interestingly, are incredibly cordial as a group nationally. I've never traveled anywhere, or seen a game on the road anywhere, where Bills fans were misbehaved. We travel extremely well. Interestingly, I'd say the opposite for the Sabres. I've had a very docile experience with Sabres fans at the HBSC, and have really been ashamed of the way some traveling fans or Sabres fans in other cities behave toward their fellow sport-goer. It's an interesting thing to think about.

 

holy police state batman.

 

Good thing you dont run a business. Cut beer sales... yes you should be an NFL GM. Dont worry about that revenue.

Harass and cite the fans for everything. thatll keep em coming back.

Your opinions are to be respected, but what you are advocating is a very minority view and those with those views will not be enough to replace all the fans you will anger.

 

Being able to get a little wild on a sunday is part of what makes the NFL attractive. Look at the commericals, the demographics the game is aimed at, its not stuffy uptight people afraid they might hear a curse word on the lords day.

 

Relax a little, if the game bothers you stay home.

[wardigital]

What part of the conduct policy states you cant be drunk? im not advocating drinking or any type of behavior.

Drinking is fine unless the line is crossed. By law and by conduct policy.

 

Im just wondering where you are getting this.... i mean specifics? Its obviously not against the conduct policy to be simply drunk on stadium grounds. Rowdy behavior is against policy.

 

There is a section of the Fan Code of Conduct that refers to responsible alcohol consumption by fans, as well as the intention to continue to up the enforcement by the alcohol enforcement teams.

 

However, there are a few things to mention here. Firstly, the Bills added things to the Fan C.O.C. as recently as Sept 11th, apparently through a news release and press conference, but throughout the countless times I've been to the Ralph I've never really observed their C.O.C being communicated properly. Secondly, the availability of the thing is very poor. The C.O.C is perplexing difficult to find on the Bills web-site, though I would assume as a ticket holder if you contacted your representative they would be able to give you an accurate layout of the stadium policies.

 

This is, however, for the Ralph/The Bills no excuse. It is easy enough for internet savvy people such as you or I to find this sort of information if we want to find it, but I imagine that a significant portion of Bills fans causing the perceived problems wouldn't take the time or have the ability to find such information, even if they wanted to, which they don't.

[akm0404]

Yes, I think that the doom and gloomers here are exaggerating things quite a bit in order to be inflammatory in their assessment of behavior at the stadium.

 

Based on my experiences attending dozens and dozens of Bills games, I do not think that you are likely to witness someone literally urinating or defecating in their seats. I do not think that you are likely to have someone pour a beer on your head. I do not think that you are likely to get assaulted by an intoxicated fan.

 

I just don't think these things happen as much as folks are letting on.

 

I've seen one person throw up in their seats, and I'm not certain whether or not it was alcohol related. I'd imagine that plenty of people vomit at Disneyworld every day, too.

 

I've never personally felt unsafe or harassed at a game. I guess I just hit the lottery, even with a whole bunch of samples.

[K Gun Special]

There is a section of the Fan Code of Conduct that refers to responsible alcohol consumption by fans, as well as the intention to continue to up the enforcement by the alcohol enforcement teams.

 

However, there are a few things to mention here. Firstly, the Bills added things to the Fan C.O.C. as recently as Sept 11th, apparently through a news release and press conference, but throughout the countless times I've been to the Ralph I've never really observed their C.O.C being communicated properly. Secondly, the availability of the thing is very poor. The C.O.C is perplexing difficult to find on the Bills web-site, though I would assume as a ticket holder if you contacted your representative they would be able to give you an accurate layout of the stadium policies.

 

This is, however, for the Ralph/The Bills no excuse. It is easy enough for internet savvy people such as you or I to find this sort of information if we want to find it, but I imagine that a significant portion of Bills fans causing the perceived problems wouldn't take the time or have the ability to find such information, even if they wanted to, which they don't.

 

 

i agree. Its not easy to find nor is it easily defined. But teams make millions on home games and beer sales are one of the biggest if not the biggest revenue generator. Cracking down on beer isnt gonna happen.

The NFL may crack down on pregaming under the guise of fan behavior, only to allow those to get sloshed buy purchasing stadium beer.

 

Rules are in place, and they say over the scorebaord that you can call security if need be.

 

Ive seen it cut both ways. A guy was removed from my section bc one older couple didn't like him. He was not doing anything offensive and the crowd let the couple and the officers know.

[wardigital]

holy police state batman.

 

Good thing you dont run a business. Cut beer sales... yes you should be an NFL GM. Dont worry about that revenue.

Harass and cite the fans for everything. thatll keep em coming back.

Your opinions are to be respected, but what you are advocating is a very minority view and those with those views will not be enough to replace all the fans you will anger.

 

Being able to get a little wild on a sunday is part of what makes the NFL attractive. Look at the commericals, the demographics the game is aimed at, its not stuffy uptight people afraid they might hear a curse word on the lords day.

 

Relax a little, if the game bothers you stay home.

 

Well, I do stay home, because the game bothers me. Also because I love 1,100 miles away now. But before I did, I stayed home because the games bothered me, and when I come back, I think long and hard about going, and generally stay home.

 

But I could just as easily say, "Tighten it up a little, if the rules bother you stay home". It's the same thing. It's what you view as a free experience at the Ralph versus what I do.

 

And the Bills and league will chase the money. For whatever reason, this season the Bills and league seem to think that the money is in the people who are turned off by going, otherwise I don't think all of these people complaining about their tailgates being changed would have much to complain about. I don't know that, that's the case, but I'm glad for it.

 

Who says I don't run a business? I obviously don't run an NFL team. And while I'd love to be an NFL GM, I don't think if I was in Buddy Nix spot, this would be something I'd deal with. I'd probably delegate. But I would like to see something happen.

 

Anyway, like I've said -- there are colleges (with bad teams, too) that don't allow any drinking in their stadium. At all. Some have very strict tailgating policies. And these colleges still do very well economically.

 

Football is going to be lucrative no matter what, especially at the NFL level. Buffalo is one of 32 lucky cities to have a team. I don't think that alcohol needs to be a part of the experience for it to be an experience, simply.

 

Here in Texas, we have a place called the Alamo Drafthouse, which is a chain of theaters in Austin and other cities that serves alcohol and bar food at your table. I love them.

 

I don't think drinking is, in and of itself the problem. I think that it is the behavior that occurs inside the Ralph that is the problem. If you can convince me that it's due to some other thing, that I'd rather get rid of that thing, and let people drink as much as they want. But my first, best guess would be that all of the alcohol people are consuming is a significant reason while so many people experience problems in their section during games.

 

This isn't everyone, and shouldn't be treated as such. But the idea that I'm in the minority when it comes to *that* is wrong, lots of people, in this thread alone have voiced their displeasure. Maybe with my remedy to fix it, sure. But I don't have tolerance for the sort of behavior that, for instance, akm0404 display in regards to even entertaining the notion. It's not silly to consider it an issue. It's pressing.

 

I want you to be able to enjoy the games too. And I wish you could without having to be drunk at the game. And if you can't, then I don't know, we're at an impasse, though I think there are plenty of reasonable solutions that could be worked into the game that would at least make it more of a compromise than it is now.

 

Lastly, and this has nothing to do with you, or any other poster, but I simply don't understand the appeal of drinking at 9 or 10 or 11 AM, no matter what day it is. To me, that is just gross.

[CodeMonkey]

The NFL may crack down on pregaming under the guise of fan behavior, only to allow those to get sloshed buy purchasing stadium beer.

Hmmmm I never thought of that. And money is usually my first motive when trying to explain NFL behavior!

[Benjamin Barker]

blah blah blah

 

I simply don't understand the appeal of drinking at 9 or 10 or 11 AM, no matter what day it is. To me, that is just gross.

 

yah football games are not the thing for you

[akm0404]

<insert anti-alcohol rant>

 

We get it, you want to outlaw alcohol at football games.

 

It isn't going to happen, sorry.

 

You can subtly interject little digs at those who are disagreeing with you, saying things like how you wish I could go to a football game without being drunk. Good stuff, right there.

 

I'm sorry that you find people consuming alcohol to detract so much from your gameday experience. We'll miss you at the stadium on Sunday, but I think you'll be just fine at home with a mug of hot cocoa

[BillsFanNC]

Yes, I think that the doom and gloomers here are exaggerating things quite a bit in order to be inflammatory in their assessment of behavior at the stadium.

 

Based on my experiences attending dozens and dozens of Bills games, I do not think that you are likely to witness someone literally urinating or defecating in their seats. I do not think that you are likely to have someone pour a beer on your head. I do not think that you are likely to get assaulted by an intoxicated fan.

 

I just don't think these things happen as much as folks are letting on.

 

I've seen one person throw up in their seats, and I'm not certain whether or not it was alcohol related. I'd imagine that plenty of people vomit at Disneyworld every day, too.

 

I've never personally felt unsafe or harassed at a game. I guess I just hit the lottery, even with a whole bunch of samples.

 

Of course it's not likely to happen, but I promise you that is a lot more likely to happen than it was a decade ago. That these things happen AT ALL is the issue here. What is so difficult to understand about this?