EastRochBillsfan Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Actually you are misunderstanding my gripe here. I would have been all for a Delhomme, McNabb, Bomar, or even a Tod Collins over the crappy QBs we have. One of these fellas would at least be a stopgap. Oh and yeah I do own season tickets pal, for the past 25 years - which is probably longer than you have even been born. Yeah, I got plenty of "skin in the game". My point, again, is ignoring the QB and OL this offseason will cost us dearly as we are probably looking at a 3-13 season. Newsflash ace, we are right up there with the Browns as the laughing stock of the league. Get real. Yeah, the only difference between the Skins and us is that they actually won there game, against their rival NFC east champs with a new coach, QB. We lost are game with a crappy QB and a coach who looked lost. No a competent QB and OL doesn't guarantee a super bowl, but it is a guarantee we aint going anywhere except the celler with the sorry group we currently have. What????!!! Watching our team flounder year afer year is depressing. Ignoring the obvious by not discussing seems too homerish to many of us. Sorry guy I'm not going to wave pom poms at every bonehead decision made at OBD. Too homerish. Get real youself. This crap has been talked about way too freakin much. They've got their plan and it's going to take some time to have it come together. Enough of the doom and gloom. If you don't enjoy the games, don't watch them. But please just stop coming here to spout your hate. A good portion of us here just don't want to hear it anymore. I got to know. are you really mpl? Actually, at least he got better as time went on. Your use of man, big guy, ace, get real, get a clue etc. really has cemented you as my new least favorite poster on this board. LOL. (yea, that's sarcasm)
Merle Haggard Posted September 17, 2010 Author Posted September 17, 2010 Too homerish. Get real youself. This crap has been talked about way too freakin much. They've got their plan and it's going to take some time to have it come together. Enough of the doom and gloom. If you don't enjoy the games, don't watch them. But please just stop coming here to spout your hate. A good portion of us here just don't want to hear it anymore. I got to know. are you really mpl? Actually, at least he got better as time went on. Your use of man, big guy, ace, get real, get a clue etc. really has cemented you as my new least favorite poster on this board. LOL. (yea, that's sarcasm) No hate guy, just reality. I'm the first to give high praise when deserved, but I also will be critical when deserved. You don't like it? Tough. Simply ignore the post and move on. Your loss not mine. LOL
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Yes. 100% oh my God hell yes. I'd give St. Louis C.J. Spiller plus ANY FIVE players they wanted off our roster for Sam Bradford. You can't consistently win in the NFL without elite-level quarterback play. The catch is, that is somewhat hard to find. But I'm willing to mortgage absolutely everything until we have that. Can't deny this. An elite QB as the ceterpiece of long term franchise success has certtainly been Polian's strategy, as his track record demonstrates. Kelly in Buf, Collins at Pathers (who aside from off field issues has been successful as a starter as was a pro bowler his second year) he too was a first round pick, and then of course Peyton. Edited September 17, 2010 by over 20 years of fanhood
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Watching our team flounder year afer year is depressing. Ignoring the obvious by not discussing seems too homerish to many of us. Sorry guy I'm not going to wave pom poms at every bonehead decision made at OBD. NOT DISCUSSING IT? are you blind? Nothing has been discussed more. The fact the bills sucked, and are going to suck with no QB or line help has been discussed for YEARS. And in reguards to this season, it has been discussed every day for a half a year. Yeah, the team sucks. But I don't see why you make a new thread about it without saying anything we haven't heard a million times since april. If you are going to do the same song and dance that we need oline and a QB, can you at least say something origional or at least something that hasn't been said a million times? Because good grief, if this is all you are going to talk about until the 2011 draft, then you really have nothing of value to say other than a rehashment of things that have been beaten to death with a dead horse over a half a year. Please, try to get some origional material.
KOKBILLS Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) What I wouldn't have done is ignored the OL and QB positions which is what we did. Bold thinking gets us out of the NFL celler, not the status quo. Unlike some of you, I find it unacceptable to do nothing. Trade a pick or two for some proven vets. Short term fix? Not hardly. We need more players, a mix of proven vets and youngsters - Trent Edwards would be hard pressed to be 3rd string on any other team, the same goes for most all of our OLinemen. Are you even old enough to remember when the Bills had their Super Bowl runs? Continued patience approach is a recipe for continued dissapointment. I don't disagree with you on principle...It's impossible to disagree...The problem comes with who and what was available this past off-season in the areas of concern, OT and QB...Outside of Sam Bradford, the only other Starting caliber QB's available were Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell, and Derek Anderson...It's easy to assume McNabb wanted nothing to do with The Bills...He's only got a couple years left and he wants to win now...I'm not sure Anderson or Campbell are all that much better than what the Bills have right now...Maybe they are but it's understandable if the Bills were not interested. So who else? Tebow? Clausen? I still think the Bills wanted Tebow pretty bad and were just out maneuvered by the Broncos...I don't think they wanted anything to do with Clausen whatsoever, so the Jury is still out on that one... There were some Vet OT's available..The name that comes to mind most notably is Jammal Brown who went to the Skins for a conditional 3rd or 4th...Of coarse maybe the Bills can still put something together for Chargers OT Marcus McNeill who would seemingly be the best "available" Vet OT at this point...There were tons of rumors about Raven OT Jarad Gaither who would have been a HUGE upgrade...But Gaither is still out with the back injury and who knows when he'll be able to play this Season...Most of the rest of the OT's available in Free Agency or Trade were average guys at best...You saw what Alex Barron did Sunday night...As far as the Draft was concerned it really came down to 2 guys at #9 because I don't think there was any way The Bills were going to be able to get up ahead of Washington or Seattle to get Trent Williams or Russell Okung...So it was going to be Davis or Bryan Bulaga...Bulaga can't crack the Starting lineup at G or T for a Packs O-Line that has been much maligned, and Davis is having a REAL rough start in SF...The Bills obviously did not want either of them at #9 overall... So while I agree with the premise that the Bills needed to address the QB and OT positions I think the idea was they were not going to be overly aggressive because they had holes all over the place and QB and OT were only two of those holes...They were going to stick with their plan and see what fell out...I was not a fan of the Spiller Pick as long as the Bills insisted on keeping Lynch...I just thinks it's stupid...But nonetheless Spiller is obviously going to be a major building block for this team going forward...The Bills needed a traditional 3-4 NT and it looks like Troupe will be solid there...It's hard to argue with the Carrington Pick because in time he may be the best of this lot...And so on, and so on... So while there is no question The Bills better do something about the QB and OT positions if they ever want to be contenders again, I think this off season was more designed to fill as many hole as possible so it's easier to be agressive in 2011...I know that's not what any Bills fan wants to here when the prospects are possibly a 4-12 Season...But it is what it is... Edited September 17, 2010 by KOKBILLS
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 I don't disagree with you on principle...It's impossible to disagree...The problem comes with who and what was available this past off-season in the areas of concern, OT and QB...Outside of Sam Bradford, the only other Starting caliber QB's available were Donovan McNabb, Jason Campbell, and Derek Anderson...It's easy to assume McNabb wanted nothing to do with The Bills...He's only got a couple years left and he wants to win now...I'm not sure Anderson or Campbell are all that much better than what the Bills have right now...Maybe they are but it's understandable if the Bills were not interested. So who else? Tebow? Clausen? I still think the Bills wanted Tebow pretty bad and were just out maneuvered by the Broncos...I don't think they wanted anything to do with Clausen whatsoever, so the Jury is still out on that one... There were some Vet OT's available..The name that comes to mind most notably is Jammal Brown who went to the Skins for a conditional 3rd or 4th...Of coarse maybe the Bills can still put something together for Chargers OT Marcus McNeill who would seemingly be the best "available" Vet OT at this point...There were tons of rumors about Raven OT Jarad Gaither who would have been a HUGE upgrade...But Gaither is still out with the back injury and who knows when he'll be able to play this Season...Most of the rest of the OT's available in Free Agency or Trade were average guys at best...You saw what Alex Barron did Sunday night...As far as the Draft was concerned it really came down to 2 guys at #9 because I don't think there was any way The Bills were going to be able to get up ahead of Washington or Seattle to get Trent Williams or Russell Okung...So it was going to be Davis or Bryan Bulaga...Bulaga can't crack the Starting lineup at G or T for a Packs O-Line that has been much maligned, and Davis is having a REAL rough start in SF...The Bills obviously did not want either of them at #9 overall... So while I agree with the premise that the Bills needed to address the QB and OT positions I think the idea was they were not going to be overly aggressive because they had holes all over the place and QB and OT were only two of those holes...They were going to stick with their plan and see what fell out...I was not a fan of the Spiller Pick as long as the Bills insisted on keeping Lynch...I just thinks it's stupid...But nonetheless Spiller is obviously going to be a major building block for this team going forward...The Bills needed a traditional 3-4 NT and it looks like Troupe will be solid there...It's hard to argue with the Carrington Pick because in time he may be the best of this lot...And so on, and so on... So while there is no question The Bills better do something about the QB and OT positions if they ever want to be contenders again, I think this off season was more designed to fill as many hole as possible so it's easier to be agressive in 2011...I know that's not what any Bills fan wants to here when the prospects are possibly a 4-12 Season...But it is what it is... good post. Let's hope they can take on the QB and tackles this offseason.
Deadstroke Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 Did you ever think that just maybe Chan needed a game or 2 under his best to see what the "O" could do in real live game conditions? Yeah, his game plan didn't work and now he knows a few things about his team that he didn't know before, plus how other teams will plan on stopping us. Now let's just calm down a bit and see if he can spot ways to get around these problems. I'm thinking that the WR's and the RB's are much better than they were given a chance to show last week, so let's see if a little better game planning/management can turn it around some. By the way, the 2nd half Defense looked pretty good....something to build on I'm thinking!!
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Did you ever think that just maybe Chan needed a game or 2 under his best to see what the "O" could do in real live game conditions? Yeah, his game plan didn't work and now he knows a few things about his team that he didn't know before, plus how other teams will plan on stopping us. Now let's just calm down a bit and see if he can spot ways to get around these problems. I'm thinking that the WR's and the RB's are much better than they were given a chance to show last week, so let's see if a little better game planning/management can turn it around some. By the way, the 2nd half Defense looked pretty good....something to build on I'm thinking!! You don't know what you are talking about. this team sucks and they wouldn't beat a pop warner football. It doesn't matter that the bills beat the jests last year, the bills just suck suck suck. Sanchez and Rex Ryan are god like and Edwards/ Chan are nothing but slaves that shine their shoes. This team didn't need a nose tackle. now that we have a nose tackle, we suck. Another decade of fail. If we drafted a QB and LT, this team would be competing for a playoff spot and we would be really good. /Merle Haggard Edited September 17, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa
Brainiac72 Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 So you would trade Spiller for Anthony Davis / Bulaga? Or you would trade Troup for Claussen? Or you would trade Spiller plus to move up for injured Okung? Or you want to mortgage the future and send Spiller plus multiple picks for Bradford? Or Troup and another pick to move up for Saffold or Tebow? I'm just not sure where you see the better value at these positions than what we drafted that will be a short term fix. I look forward to having a great QB, but mostly I look forward to having a good team. Wasting multiple picks to move up or reaching for need are not ways to have this roster get the most talented it can get. I don't like our weak spots, and I am iffy on Bell and not sold on Trent, but I just don't see the un-doom options out there that would have made us a better football team. i probably woulda taken Clausen ahead of Troup, hoping Troup would be there in 3rd. never know if that woulda worked, but it's what i was thinking at the time. Another option, if yer concerned with value, was trading down in first round, grabbing bulaga for RT, then taking Troup and Clausen in 2nd (assuming you could get/parlay trading down into another 2nd). then no Spiller, but 3 needs instead of 1 exciting non-need.
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) The thing about buluga is, he isn't even starting at RT on a packers oline that isn't that good to begin with. Chances are he would probably be just as bad as Green, but would have cost us a first rounder.... so people that are screaming we should have drafted buluga are crazy. But I agree with the reasoning that troup might have been available in the 3rd. It is hard to tell, but i agree it is very possible. Edited September 17, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa
FlutieFlake Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 First off, I'm not a clown, I'm an opinionated fan, more or less, like you. Now, I can't guarantee you that Luck, Locker, or Mallet will be franchise QBs, but I can guarantee you that Edwards, Fitzpatrick, and Brohm won't be! The QB class for next year may(or may not) turn out to be like the "lotto winning class" of '83(Elway, Kelly, Marino).The best news is thatwe stand a pretty good chance of holding a winning ticket. What's wrong with being excited about the possibility? A "winning ticket"??? With a 70 yr old "Rookie GM" making the pick??? That's hardly a "winning ticket" in my book. My point was that AJ Smith was making the decisions in S.Diego - NOT Buddy Nix. No one knows at this point whether we just blew a great chance at picking up a possible "Franchise QB" when we passed on Claussen in the 2nd round of this last draft. I have no trust in Buddy's skills at picking a "winning ticket" as you call it. Time will tell of course. But as far as Luck, Locker and Mallett are concerned, at this point they are no more or less a "winning ticket" than Claussen may have been. And very few QB's step right out of college and become "Franchise QB's overnight. As far as Elway(#1), Kelly(#14), and Marino(#27) are concerned, You fail to mention that Todd Blackledge(#7), Tony Eason(#15), and Kenny O'Brien(#24) were also highly thought of that season and look how they turned out... Let's not even talk about Tony Hunter(#12) whom the Bills picked before Jim Kelly.... Some "winning ticket" he turned out to be....
Merle Haggard Posted September 17, 2010 Author Posted September 17, 2010 A "winning ticket"??? With a 70 yr old "Rookie GM" making the pick??? That's hardly a "winning ticket" in my book. My point was that AJ Smith was making the decisions in S.Diego - NOT Buddy Nix. No one knows at this point whether we just blew a great chance at picking up a possible "Franchise QB" when we passed on Claussen in the 2nd round of this last draft. I have no trust in Buddy's skills at picking a "winning ticket" as you call it. Time will tell of course. But as far as Luck, Locker and Mallett are concerned, at this point they are no more or less a "winning ticket" than Claussen may have been. And very few QB's step right out of college and become "Franchise QB's overnight. As far as Elway(#1), Kelly(#14), and Marino(#27) are concerned, You fail to mention that Todd Blackledge(#7), Tony Eason(#15), and Kenny O'Brien(#24) were also highly thought of that season and look how they turned out... Let's not even talk about Tony Hunter(#12) whom the Bills picked before Jim Kelly.... Some "winning ticket" he turned out to be.... The thing about buluga is, he isn't even starting at RT on a packers oline that isn't that good to begin with. Chances are he would probably be just as bad as Green, but would have cost us a first rounder.... so people that are screaming we should have drafted buluga are crazy. But I agree with the reasoning that troup might have been available in the 3rd. It is hard to tell, but i agree it is very possible. It's awfully early to be calling Bulaga a bust pal. Chances are good Troup would have been around in the third. Nix blew big time by passing on Clausen. No guarantee, just like any other pick, that he would have panned out - but I'm willing to risk a 2nd rounder on a QB that was slated to go in the 1st.
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) It's awfully early to be calling Bulaga a bust pal. Chances are good Troup would have been around in the third. Nix blew big time by passing on Clausen. No guarantee, just like any other pick, that he would have panned out - but I'm willing to risk a 2nd rounder on a QB that was slated to go in the 1st. I didn't call him a bust. I said he wouldn't have given us any help THIS year. Isn't THIS year the year you are talking about or did you already forget what you said in your first post? And WHO slated clausen to go 1st? because if teams actually slated him to go first, then they would have picked him in the 1st round. If you are talking about the ESPN folks slating clausen to go first, then that is silly that you want ESPN to run a football team. Edited September 17, 2010 by DanInUticaTampa
RealityCheck Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 The only time I get pissed off is when I have high expectations and become disappointed. I am a huge Bills fan and drive 5 hours one way for the games. Some of you guys are really just mentally ill. The OBVIOUS plan with this team is to spend as little as possible, focus on the draft, install new schemes across the board while learning who they can coach up and who they can't, and the clear side effect of this process is a top 3 pick in next years draft. They really do seem to just be starting over with low overhead. Based on previous decision making in the organization over the years, it just doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on players when you haven't been very good at it before. If the obvious reality is too much to deal with, start pulling for a different team, and give up your season tickets so that I can continue upgrading. The world is a scary place, if the Bills season is that hard on you, get help. Fast! Go Bills.
Merle Haggard Posted September 17, 2010 Author Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) I didn't call him a bust. I said he wouldn't have given us any help THIS year. Isn't THIS year the year you are talking about or did you already forget what you said in your first post? And WHO slated clausen to go 1st? because if teams actually slated him to go first, then they would have picked him in the 1st round. If you are talking about the ESPN folks slating clausen to go first, then that is silly that you want ESPN to run a football team. LOL. Virtually all the "pundits" were picking Clausen in the first, even in the top 10 overall. Go research it yourself big guy. You're darn straight I'm talking this year - I would be much more comfortable if we would have at least drafted our postions of greatest needs so we can start getting them battle ready now versus kicking that process out one more year. Nix didn't. Big mistake. Hence, ignoring the QB and OL this offseason will cost us dearly. This is not rocket science. Sheesh. The only time I get pissed off is when I have high expectations and become disappointed. I am a huge Bills fan and drive 5 hours one way for the games. Some of you guys are really just mentally ill. The OBVIOUS plan with this team is to spend as little as possible, focus on the draft, install new schemes across the board while learning who they can coach up and who they can't, and the clear side effect of this process is a top 3 pick in next years draft. They really do seem to just be starting over with low overhead. Based on previous decision making in the organization over the years, it just doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on players when you haven't been very good at it before. If the obvious reality is too much to deal with, start pulling for a different team, and give up your season tickets so that I can continue upgrading. The world is a scary place, if the Bills season is that hard on you, get help. Fast! Go Bills. I aint giving up my great seats guy. And yes, I will continue to howl when the guys at OBD blunder. Edited September 17, 2010 by Merle Haggard
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 LOL. Virtually all the "pundits" were picking Clausen in the first, even in the top 10 overall. Go research it yourself big guy. You're darn straight I'm talking this year - I would be much more comfortable if we would have at least drafted our postions of greatest needs so we can start getting them battle ready now versus kicking that process out one more year. Nix didn't. Big mistake. Hence, ignoring the QB and OL this offseason will cost us dearly. This is not rocket science. Sheesh. But you said that the OL and QB positions are what would drag us down this year, implying that if we "fixed" them this year, we wouldn't be doomed this year. It didn't matter if we drafted all QB and linemen, this team was doomed either way this year. And all those pundits that had Clausen going 1st round?!?! HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Do you know that these are the same pundits that were picking Edwards to go in the 1st round?!?!? hahahahahaha, MAN! that worked out so well for us.... picking a player that PUNDITS thought should go in the 1st round and we picked him in the third. We realllly got a good deal on that one! You are SO right. We should listen to these pundits more often. maybe we can draft another edwards.... hahahahahahahahahaha. man you are a trip and a half with this nonesense. You are right. the pundits know more than all the teams that passed on clausen. man, you are just crazy. Holgrem, who is supposed to be great with QBs, passed on claussen twice! But forget that, the pundits know more than holgrem. The pundits have coached more QBs than he has... hahahahaha, pundits..... yeah, lets listen to those idiots
Doc Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 It's awfully early to be calling Bulaga a bust pal. Chances are good Troup would have been around in the third. Nix blew big time by passing on Clausen. No guarantee, just like any other pick, that he would have panned out - but I'm willing to risk a 2nd rounder on a QB that was slated to go in the 1st. Wait, I thought if guys didn't start and/or produce in their rookie years, they were busts? Which is it? As for Clausen, he's proven nothing to this point. When he's had a chance to play in a few real games, then we can talk.
8-8 Forever? Posted September 17, 2010 Posted September 17, 2010 The thought of only winning a couple of games this season makes me fit the puke. I'm sick of us standing shoulder to shoulder with the celler dwellers of the NFL. You can go ahead and start puking about 4:15pm EST Sunday. Unfortunately, expect to lose 1/4 of your body weight by Christmas simply from puking.
Merle Haggard Posted September 18, 2010 Author Posted September 18, 2010 Wait, I thought if guys didn't start and/or produce in their rookie years, they were busts? Which is it? As for Clausen, he's proven nothing to this point. When he's had a chance to play in a few real games, then we can talk. You thought wrong Doc. LOL.
DanInUticaTampa Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 Guys, who are the pundits saying we should draft? because if we don't listen to them, we are doooooooomed!
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