Locker room privacy ??

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement, in a garden, in a park, or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats eat it, then whose fault will it be, the cat's, or the uncovered meat's?

 

This post would appear to represent a major step for Mr. Benjamin Barker.

Step into what?, is left (like a piece of uncovered 4-day-old meat) as an exercise for the intelligent cat, er, reader.

 

I thought Neanderthals were extinct.

 

Just when I thought your posts couldn't get any stupider. I set the bar too low, I guess.

 

The thing is, I can't decide which if more offensive. The comparison to a professional reporter to "uncovered meat" or the presumption that professional athletes are capable of no more self control than cats on the street.

 

I vote - "yes"

Though I'd go with "comparison of a human being to uncovered meat". Any human being.

[papazoid]

NFL analyst Brian Baldinger says: "Ines Sainz was asking for it":

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/NFL-analyst-Brian-Baldinger-says-Ines-Sainz-was-?urn=nfl-270312

 

 

NFL reporter Andrea Kramer says: "The 'boys will be boys' mentality is so passe at this point," Kremer said. "The bigger picture for me is when anything happens where somebody's body, and not their body of work, becomes the topic, then all women get roped into this. You get the same antiquated notions of 'should women even be there to begin with?' My god, are we not past this yet?"

 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2010/09/17/2010-09-17_reality_is_a_double_standard.html

[iinii]

an open locker room is how we are able to do our jobs and provide as much insight to the public as we possibly can. it's the given-and-take at a players' locker -- after practice or after a game -- where the best stuff is said, and the best observations made. this is also a place where reporters are allowed to interact with players, joke with them, chat them up about other topics, see if they're limping, angry, sad or happy. this is where a lot of the personal relationships are built.

i can see how some might think a separate media area will work. it won't.

players have numerous areas they can hang out in that are out of bounds to reporters. however, NFL players are required under league rules to make themselves accessible to the media on Wednesdays and after games. and that requirement on Wednesday is half-an-hour or so. that's where the separate media area doesn't work. a player is most comfortable at his locker. it would be inconvenient for them to have to hang around a separate room for that period of time.

 

my 2 cents.

 

jw

I had a feeling that would be the answer if you will. Right after the battle is when the emotions are highest and apt to be most creative. Sanitizing it down to a special room at a certain time probably would make for less interaction, openness and availability. A woman in any men's locker room is a recipe for trouble but woman in general in a testosterone driven environment like an N.F.L. locker room has to be an even more charged space. Is there an answer? Saying these men should behave professionally/respectfully is a bit narrow minded if you ask me. They are naked and I am sure some are proud of it. Asking them to put up with outsiders especially women is pushing it. THere probably isn't a right answer but expecting people to act a certain way because of someone else's constitutional rights is a bit much.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Saying these men should behave professionally/respectfully is a bit narrow minded if you ask me. They are naked and I am sure some are proud of it. Asking them to put up with outsiders especially women is pushing it. THere probably isn't a right answer but expecting people to act a certain way because of someone else's constitutional rights is a bit much.

 

Whoa! Please....listen to yourself.

 

Expecting people to act a certain way in order to respect someone else's constitutional rights .....

Isn't that just a cornerstone of Western democracy or something trivial like that?

 

I cycle. Cyclists tend to wear tight shorts and body-hugging shirts for aerodynamics and comfort.

Need I say, many of the ladies (not speaking of myself here - yet) are also highly fit and 'eyeable'.

You get the occasional minor comment on looks like "are you passing?" "I'm just back here enjoying the scenery" but according to your logic it would be narrow-minded and unreasonable to expect the male cyclists to behave respectfully to the women (and vice-versa), after all they are working hard and getting their testosterone and competitiveness up and the women are wearing painted-tight clothing (many of them). Fortunately, the men cyclists seem more broad-minded and reasonable than you.

They are more focused on going fast (and dropping me like a rock down a well).

 

The thing that I haven't seen too much of, but that struck me, is the Jest's coaching/management.

It seems clear from the story (Jests coaches throwing balls near her and having non-receivers or DBs run for them), that tolerance for the "hey baby!" mentality

started at the management level. Otherwise it would have been "OK, guys, we know she's hot. Now stop checking her out and focus on business -- just another distraction we expect you to overcome. We're here to work."

[BuffaloBill]

Whoa! Please....listen to yourself.

 

Expecting people to act a certain way in order to respect someone else's constitutional rights .....

Isn't that just a cornerstone of Western democracy or something trivial like that?

 

I cycle. Cyclists tend to wear tight shorts and body-hugging shirts for aerodynamics and comfort.

Need I say, many of the ladies (not speaking of myself here - yet) are also highly fit and 'eyeable'.

You get the occasional minor comment on looks like "are you passing?" "I'm just back here enjoying the scenery" but according to your logic it would be narrow-minded and unreasonable to expect the male cyclists to behave respectfully to the women (and vice-versa), after all they are working hard and getting their testosterone and competitiveness up and the women are wearing painted-tight clothing (many of them). Fortunately, the men cyclists seem more broad-minded and reasonable than you.

They are more focused on going fast (and dropping me like a rock down a well).

 

The thing that I haven't seen too much of, but that struck me, is the Jest's coaching/management.

It seems clear from the story (Jests coaches throwing balls near her and having non-receivers or DBs run for them), that tolerance for the "hey baby!" mentality

started at the management level. Otherwise it would have been "OK, guys, we know she's hot. Now stop checking her out and focus on business -- just another distraction we expect you to overcoFe. We're here to work."

 

 

Hopeful - thank you for your comments and insights. One key difference between your example of cyclists and the NFL locker room is that unless you are riding professionally it is not a business or place of work. The NFL locker room is a business and the reporters are there to do a job. Accordingly the team, the league, the players and the reporters all have the responsibility of maintaining professional and legal standards of behavior (along with maintaining an environment that allows for this).

 

In your cycling situation you do not have the same protections. Right, wrong or indifferent you are left to basically fend for yourself or perhaps friends, boyfriend or husband could intervene on your behalf if someone steps over the lines of decent behavior. Obviously if the behavior is so extreme that it becomes harrassing, stalking or physical assault then there are laws that would apply.

 

At the end of the day the sad reality pointed out through much of this thread and the alleged actions with the Jets is that too many people fail to realize that simply acting with courtesy and respect is not only a good thing to do it is the right thing to do. There is nothing wrong with noticing another person is attractive. Also nothing wrong with sincerely complimenting the person. However, sexually taunting someone, making lewd comments about them to others and simply acting childish is another story altogether.

 

Especially to the guys who may dispute this, talk to a female (or while less common perhaps a guy) who has experienced the latter to understand the impact on a personal or professional level. Any man who is a husband, brother, father of daughters, true friends with women, aunts or (to capture all of us) has a mother and grandmother should think about how we would want these important women treated and act accordingly.

 

Finally, I do not post this with a holier than thou mindset. I find myself regularly having to check my behavior and thoughts. This is part of being human.

[papazoid]

NFL chastised Jets for "unprofessional conduct":

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5585084

[Thoner7]

How many Male reporters are allowed in the womans locker rooms after their games?

 

Woman should not be allowed in the locker room. If they want to make some sexist fuss about that, then no reporters should be allowed in.

 

PS I would bet that a male player could win a huge lawsuit against the NFL. Males never really have a problem with this type of thing, but all it takes in one player.

 

AKA - become a janitor and when the womans room is crowded go in a start cleaning. See how long it takes for a lawsuit.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Thoner7

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

How many Male reporters are allowed in the womans locker rooms after their games?

 

Actually as many as want to. All players, male and female, have a certain amount of time before the doors are opened to reporters of both genders. If those players choose to be naked after that time, that's their choice knowing that people are coming in. Call me sexist, but I bet female athletes are more likely to cover up before that time expires.

[Kelso_Helmet]

An interesting perspective here. Source: the Washington Post

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/09/a_few_words_on_women_in_nfl_lo.html?wpisrc=nl_sports

[The Dean]

An interesting perspective here. Source: the Washington Post

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/09/a_few_words_on_women_in_nfl_lo.html?wpisrc=nl_sports

 

 

GREAT article. And it puts to bed the nonsense about male reporters not being able to go into any Women's locker rooms.

[billsfan1959]

 

you are an egotistical, pretentious wannabe know-it-all, capable of little, but yet somehow supported by a truly Jupiter Planet-sized over-inflated gene of self-righteous stubborness that could well be spotted in far-flung galaxies seen as a mere glimmer of light by only the likes of the hubble telescope.

 

Creative, intellectual, funny...Truly a nicely constructed insult. Well done

[Mr. WEO]

 

you are an egotistical, pretentious wannabe know-it-all, capable of little, but yet somehow supported by a truly Jupiter Planet-sized over-inflated gene of self-righteous stubborness that could well be spotted in far-flung galaxies seen as a mere glimmer of light by only the likes of the hubble telescope.

 

Creative, intellectual, funny...Truly a nicely constructed insult. Well done

Creative, yes. Funny, OK. Intellectual? In a college senior English Lit kind of way, maybe. Certainly overwrought and dramatic--especially with the "and I shall never respond to you again!" finish.

 

I like the "capable of little" part. Talk about pretention!

 

Anyway, in reference to the Wash Post article, here are two telling points that illustrate the press's position:

 

When Stanford played UConn in last April's championship, if you wanted to see how devastated Jayne Appel was after her terrible shooting night, you needed to be in the locker room.

 

Really? The reading public who just witnessed this woman's devestation needed an inside witness to chronicle it for them? To describe the woman as devestated, crying even (hopefully)?

 

 

But more important than comfort is speed, especially after night games like last week's. All our reporters had to file stories within 30 seconds of the final whistle, run down to the locker room, and then refile as quickly as possible to have any chance of getting post-game quotes into a few hundred thousand papers.

 

See? It's all about getting a sound bite--anything---attatched to the byline and to press as quickly as possible.

[truth on hold]

The policy itself is the problem, because you cannot guard against instances where someone abuses the privilege to check the players out or teases them, be it deliberately or out of ignorance, like a Penis Sainz.

 

 

Get ALL reporters out of the locker ... the highest priority here should be common decency NOT "getting the story" at all costs. Seriously what's next ... interviewing them when they're on the bowl dropping a deuce because that was the best way to get a story?

[billsfan1959]

Creative, yes. Funny, OK. Intellectual? In a college senior English Lit kind of way, maybe. Certainly overwrought and dramatic--especially with the "and I shall never respond to you again!" finish.

 

I like the "capable of little" part. Talk about pretention!

 

Anyway, in reference to the Wash Post article, here are two telling points that illustrate the press's position:

 

 

 

Really? The reading public who just witnessed this woman's devestation needed an inside witness to chronicle it for them? To describe the woman as devestated, crying even (hopefully)?

 

 

 

 

See? It's all about getting a sound bite--anything---attatched to the byline and to press as quickly as possible.

 

 

Don't misunderstand. I was not commenting on the quality of the entire post, nor was I taking his side or giving him credit for insulting you. I was simply giving recognition for a fairly decent insult. It wasn't the most creative, or the funniest, or the most intellectual; however it did have elements of each. Sort of like olympic scoring - good dismount, nice double back-flip, but didn't quite stick the landing: I give him a 7.8

[SwampD]

A little OT, but can I just say that I hate, and I mean HATE, halftime interviews as a coach is running off the field? Talk about some useless soundbites. Does anyone really think a coach is going give any good insight as to what he needs to do in the second half to get back in the game?

[Lurker]

two decades from now, nobody will know who you are. ... good for you.

 

jw

Not to fall completely into the gutter with such classy responses as this...but wouldn't the same be said of all AP stringers as well?

[Red]

Clinton Portis "she's gonna want somebody" :

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/clinton-portis-on-women-reporters-in-locker-room-shes-gonna-want-somebody/1

 

NFL Scolds Portis:

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/09/nfl-clinton-portis-comments-about-women-reporters-were-inappropriate-and-offensive/1

 

 

i think the locker room should be CLOSED to ALL reporters...men and women.

 

there should be media access in a seperate area.

 

I concur.

 

There is nothing to be said in a locker room that cannot wait until the players have had a chance to shower, dress, etc.

 

And as nice to look at as that woman may be, what she wears screams "Look at me" and is not only a distraction, it is extremely unprofessional for any serious reporter to consider. If she wants to parade around as a hooker, let her do it on her time.

 

Oh, but wait...if she were concerned about being taken seriously and not as some arm candy she would not be dressed like that anyways.

 

I think what she has pulled and her whole costume is nothing more than a publicity stunt to garner her "15 minutes", in the hopes that she can parlay that into a potential deal.

 

If she was serious about her job, she would not be dressed like that. That does not give grown men permission to act like drooling idiots w/teret's....but if she was a professional her costume would not be attracting that kind of attention.

 

There is no innocent party here, IMO.

[Red]

Whoa! Please....listen to yourself.

 

Expecting people to act a certain way in order to respect someone else's constitutional rights .....

Isn't that just a cornerstone of Western democracy or something trivial like that?

 

I cycle. Cyclists tend to wear tight shorts and body-hugging shirts for aerodynamics and comfort.

Need I say, many of the ladies (not speaking of myself here - yet) are also highly fit and 'eyeable'.

You get the occasional minor comment on looks like "are you passing?" "I'm just back here enjoying the scenery" but according to your logic it would be narrow-minded and unreasonable to expect the male cyclists to behave respectfully to the women (and vice-versa), after all they are working hard and getting their testosterone and competitiveness up and the women are wearing painted-tight clothing (many of them). Fortunately, the men cyclists seem more broad-minded and reasonable than you.

They are more focused on going fast (and dropping me like a rock down a well).

 

The thing that I haven't seen too much of, but that struck me, is the Jest's coaching/management.

It seems clear from the story (Jests coaches throwing balls near her and having non-receivers or DBs run for them), that tolerance for the "hey baby!" mentality

started at the management level. Otherwise it would have been "OK, guys, we know she's hot. Now stop checking her out and focus on business -- just another distraction we expect you to overcome. We're here to work."

 

That's why I believe there are no winners in this situation.

 

If she was a serious reporter, she would not be parading around, in painted on clothing, with a bunch of mostly single, million dollar, high profile, world class athletes. If her profession were her chief goal, walking around like a barbie doll in a testosterone-crazed environment is asking for it, IMO.

 

Do they have the right to behave badly? Sure. I don't remember our right of Free Speech being defined as only pertaining to certain situations that we all can agree to. HOWEVER, with that being said you would expect that mature men would behave in a not only respectable manner towards the distraction, but also in a self-respecting and classy demeanor like that of million dollar athletes should.

 

Now, if you think that her costume and image are not manufactured for exactly the kind of sex she is trying to sell, you are too naive to bother with. If you don't think that she is fully aware of what she is doing, what she is aiming for, and what kind of image she is hoping to portray then you are unconvinceable. She's hardly a victim.

 

No one behaved the way they should in this situation. Which is why I think the locker room should be off limits to reporters. There is nothing that cannot wait until a player who has just fought and bled for several hours to exhaustion has atleast had a chance to shower, change, and relax. It's not that important. Now, working members of the press would disagree, but the whole policy could eliminate these things if it banned reporters in the locker room, period.

 

Oh, but that would spoil the sizzle professional sport teams are duplicitly linked with the press for. The press sells the sizzle.

 

Man, this keeps getting worse.

 

And as far as the bicycling thing goes: I sure wish you are not one of those 'cycling dopes that thinks the lanes for motor vehicles on a road are meant for cyclists, too. No matter if you think you're Lance "EPO" Armstrong or not, a bike cannot go as fast as a car. PULL OVER! Stop clogging traffic. Bikers are always stating to share the road, but seldom use their own advice. Move over and stop being a hazard.

 

Phew. Had to get that out. Now, if you do follow the rules of the road and move over to allow cars to rightfully pass, then please disregard the prior rant.

 

The policy itself is the problem, because you cannot guard against instances where someone abuses the privilege to check the players out or teases them, be it deliberately or out of ignorance, like a Penis Sainz.

 

 

Get ALL reporters out of the locker ... the highest priority here should be common decency NOT "getting the story" at all costs. Seriously what's next ... interviewing them when they're on the bowl dropping a deuce because that was the best way to get a story?

 

I cannot agree more.

 

After a game, a player is hungry, tired, thirsty....they are spent physically and emotionally. We know from watching games that when a player is tired, mental lapses and mistakes can occur w/greater frequency.

 

The press lies in wait to take advantage of this. Also a news cycle and this insane competition to be "the 1st on the scene", the competition with the internet, etc and the leagues themselves trying to remain blissfully ignorant of the whole situation know that they are equally to blame for allowing access to help sell their product.

 

There is nothing to be gained that can't wait until players are showered, dressed, and ready to answer questions. If that means eating something, fine. Set the time to match, and reporters can gather in Room XYZ at such and such time. Now, reporters are free to leave if they can't or don't want to wait, but this is sports....it's not world affairs.

[starrymessenger]

Don't have a problem with Kris Jenkins' comments. He was angry and he had every right to be. No woman, reporter or not, hot or not, has any business in a men's locker room. Oh but it is her business you say. I say "nuts", until they let men walk around women's locker rooms (which they won't and which they shouldn't)- that is the real double standard here. Athletes, male and female, are not just pieces of meat. They have feelings and for the most part they fully subscribe to conventional mores and societal norms, which by the way includes sexual probity. Sure they are in the public eye, but they have not foregone their rights to privacy.

[Lori]

Don't have a problem with Kris Jenkins' comments. He was angry and he had every right to be. No woman, reporter or not, hot or not, has any business in a men's locker room. Oh but it is her business you say. I say "nuts", until they let men walk around women's locker rooms (which they won't and which they shouldn't)- that is the real double standard here. Athletes, male and female, are not just pieces of meat. They have feelings and for the most part they fully subscribe to conventional mores and societal norms, which by the way includes sexual probity. Sure they are in the public eye, but they have not foregone their rights to privacy.

Don't know how many times I (and others) need to repeat this before it starts sinking in, but reporters of both genders ARE allowed postgame locker-room access for high-profile women's sports. WNBA and the women's NCAA hoops tourney, to name two.