John Cocktosten Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Amongst the Bills many glaring holes, the one that stands out the most to me is a pass rusher. Counting on the front the 3 to provide anything more than a push inside is a bit to optimistic. So that leaves the OLB's, who are all transitioning from DE and have proven to be terrible pass rushers. Sure Maybin (Which is no excuse) is young but if Chris Ellis(0 sacks in 2 seasons) was a threat he would have played the last 2 years. Reggie Torbor.....is Reggie Torbor. So that leaves Chris Kelsay, who has to have pictures of the front office in a Caligula type situation, as the only other guy with an NFL sack. I realize that the 3-4 is about coming from different angles and not just about bring pressure from the outside, but this will create 1 on1 situations with Kelsay/Ellis/Maybin on RB's and TE's and that is a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure how a guy like Bobby Mccray, who was banged up most of last year, is not brought into to at least get a look! This is going to be a very frustrating year because I truly think this offense is going to score but I just don't think that the Bills are going to stop the pass. It's not about secondary, it'll be about the rush. I just don't understand how this wasn't addressed at all during the offseason/draft/current FA period.
bowery4 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) Well we must wait and see, pre season were all very vanilla schemes. I am hoping they have a plan. In fact I am confident they do (for the first time in years, it will also be adjustable!!). It might be real hard to watch them for the first 4 games tho. We will just have to wait and see. Damn is it SUNDAY YET???? I can't wait. I am like a kid on Christmas Eve I just hope I got what I wanted! Edited September 9, 2010 by bowery4
John Cocktosten Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 Do I think our defense is as talented as the Jets? Absolutely not. However, I think their philosophy on defense would work well for ours as well. The Bills and Jets defense is nothing alike. Rex Ryan mixes up his fronts, playes with a true 2 gap NT and brings pressure form everywhere. The Bills defense will look more like the Dolphins D the last couple of years which relies heavily on the front 7 to create pressure. Also they have been using Kyle Williams as a 1-gap NT most of the preseason so they are nothing like the Jets. Every 3-4 is not alike, just like evrery spread offense isn't. The scenerios are frightening. Bring Poz and Maybin, that leaves Kelsay and Davis in space to defend or play man on a RB or a TE!?! I could go on and on but all of the Bills LB's will be exposed quickly in the season and teams will gameplan to create those exact mismatches. Guys like K Faulk, R Williams, R. Brown, LT, Keller and Gronkowski have to be licking their chops. Scary.
shakar Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Can somebody tell me who is going to rush the QB??? Kelsay/Ellis/Maybin/Torbor!?!!?!?!? Yes.
Phil Hansen Forever Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 With no pass rush, we can only hope our secondary does a tremendous job of preventing long passes, and hopefully intercepting a few of them.
John Cocktosten Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 Can somebody tell me who is going to rush the QB??? Kelsay/Ellis/Maybin/Torbor!?!!?!?!? Yes. original
Benjamin Barker Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 I wouldn't worry too much about it. The Bills defense is going to leverage the long forgotten "Five-Mississippi" rule this season.
HARCO186 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 It was addressed!!!! The Bills had a great pass defense (6th) but were 29th against the run. They have already said that the 3-4 will be a hybrid at best and in nickel situations they will be in a 4-3. That being said, that will bring a safety up and leave a lb free on 1st and 2nd downs. The purpose of the 3-4 is disguise blitzes and formations. When Buffalo said it was going 3-4 it was because they want pressure and blitzes. More one on one coverages by the corners. The preseason was just a basic set that we rarely blitzed, What bothers me is when you blitz and it's on the wrong side of a run, the runner has an open field that can gain big gains. I think we stop the run more, but still get beat on big rushes. If you see that happening, then you know we blitzed the wrong way or were caught on a counter trap.....
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) In my opinion, the best way for this team to generate any kind of pass rush is to beat the opposing offenses by numbers. It's a copy cat league, and the Jets defense does a great job of overloading blitzes and confusing the opponents offense to get to the quarterback and force sacks or bad throws. We should mimic this style of defense considering we have a very solid secondary and we lack a legitimate pass rusher. Do I think our defense is as talented as the Jets? Absolutely not. However, I think their philosophy on defense would work well for ours as well. I agree that the 3-4 generally will allow us to create some pressure schematically. Hopefully this will somewhat compensate for our lack of proven pass rushers. The Bills and Jets defense is nothing alike. Rex Ryan mixes up his fronts, playes with a true 2 gap NT and brings pressure form everywhere. The Bills defense will look more like the Dolphins D the last couple of years which relies heavily on the front 7 to create pressure. Also they have been using Kyle Williams as a 1-gap NT most of the preseason so they are nothing like the Jets. Every 3-4 is not alike, just like evrery spread offense isn't. The scenerios are frightening. Bring Poz and Maybin, that leaves Kelsay and Davis in space to defend or play man on a RB or a TE!?! I could go on and on but all of the Bills LB's will be exposed quickly in the season and teams will gameplan to create those exact mismatches. Guys like K Faulk, R Williams, R. Brown, LT, Keller and Gronkowski have to be licking their chops. Scary. Well you know John, our run fits might be different but as far as pass rushing, I think most 3-4s are pretty similar. They differ most from what I've seen in terms of how risky they are…how often they send extra blitzers and how many they send. But as Scott says, it is a copycat league. BTW, the Bills and Jets had the same number of sacks last year…32. edit: And don't forget about Antonio Coleman. He has as good a chance as anyone to be our leading sacker…although I think Maybin will lead the team in sacks. Edited September 9, 2010 by San Jose Bills Fan
Thoner7 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 What was wrong with my thread on this subject
PDaDdy Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Everyone!!! Seriously. Let the secondary play man and bring everyone else. Run blitz the QB every play. YES. I said RUN blitz the QB every play. On your way to the signal caller if you see the RB ...knock him on his ass. If he has the ball, tackle for a loss. If he doesn't, you disrupted a pass pattern.
DDD Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 That is a very good question. Here are some others: Who on the O-line can play besides Wood? When will the Bills get an NFL caliber TE? Is there a NFL starting caliber WR on the roster besides Evans? Can Trent Edwards throw in cold weather? Is the Bills LB corps the worst in the NFL?
John Cocktosten Posted September 9, 2010 Author Posted September 9, 2010 Well you know John, our run fits might be different but as far as pass rushing, I think most 3-4s are pretty similar. They differ most from what I've seen in terms of how risky they are…how often they send extra blitzers and how many they send. But as Scott says, it is a copycat league. BTW, the Bills and Jets had the same number of sacks last year…32. edit: And don't forget about Antonio Coleman. He has as good a chance as anyone to be our leading sacker…although I think Maybin will lead the team in sacks. 3-4 defenses are not the same. That's like saying all 4-3 defenses are the same. -Steelers run more zone blitz schemes with Troy P in Robber coverage. They are in zone with a man free almost all of thhe time. -The last 2 years the Dolphins have mainly relied on their OLB's for pressure dropping their MLB's and playing zone behind that. -The Jets are the most unique of them all, using multiple fronts and playing man behind that. When you have Revis and now Cromatire, you are going to play man and come with 7-8 every play because those 2 are great man CB's. If anything the are going to resemble the Steelers because McGhee and Co do not excel in man coverage. And there in lies the problem, the Bills don't have Joey Porter/J Taylor and they certainly don't have Harrison and Woodley. Relying on Coleman, and undrafted FA rookie ot provide pass rush is what drives me crazy. There is not one player on this team who is an impact pass rusher. Let's be honest, Coleman will make little if any impact.
Special_K Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 And there in lies the problem, the Bills don't have Joey Porter/J Taylor and they certainly don't have Harrison and Woodley. Relying on Coleman, and undrafted FA rookie ot provide pass rush is what drives me crazy. There is not one player on this team who is an impact pass rusher. Let's be honest, Coleman will make little if any impact. You are aware that James Harrison was an UDFA, was cut four times by 2 different teams, played in NFL Europe, and was a HUGE question mark when he was tabbed to replace Joey Porter, right? It's hard to know who will be an impact pass rusher on this team until we see what they do in actual game situations. Believe it or not they actually DO have some players with some skills. While Chris Kelsay couldn't beat a RT regularly (or at all) to get pressure now he'll be up against TEs or RBs much more often 1 on 1 and that's a much better match-up for him. Maybin, while still hugely unproven HAS come to camp with some counter moves this season and is the sort of athlete that also be a tough match-up for a TE or RB. Ellis is an unknown. He had PR skills in college but was hardly got on the field with Jauron here so I'm not sure what that means. Roscoe Parrish hardly got in the game either but I think we agree he has physical skills. Pass rush can be achieved in several ways and not everyone has to be Lawrence Taylor to get to the QB. The Steelers have EXCELLED at getting the absolute most out of linebackers with limited skill sets via scheme. Joey Porter has never covered anyone in his life and nobody cares. James Harrison was JAG until the Steelers started scheming to use his talents. Kevin Greene was an OLB and again, never covered a soul. Ditto Greg Lloyd. Were those players great? yes. Would they have been as great in a Tampa 2? Probably not. I'm much more worried about pass coverage - but even with that we haven't covered a TE in 20 years and in the previous defense we had LBs dropping 15 yards deep and getting balls dropped in front of them anyway. Don't expect to see our defense putting LBs into man coverage situations. Expect lots of zone.
H2o Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Coleman, Maybin, and Ellis will be the sack leaders this year. Scary thought, but I think Maybin gets atleast 8 sacks this year. Ellis is capable of the same, but will likely land between 5-7. Coleman won't have the opportunities as the others, but I think he gets 4 or 5. Torbor may get 4 or 5 as well. Hopefully Puz goes Ray Lewis on the AFC East and kills everybody.
SteamRoller67 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Everyone!!! Seriously. Let the secondary play man and bring everyone else. Run blitz the QB every play. YES. I said RUN blitz the QB every play. On your way to the signal caller if you see the RB ...knock him on his ass. If he has the ball, tackle for a loss. If he doesn't, you disrupted a pass pattern. Great logic... Now the offense runs draws and screens all day and kill the D with huge plays. You can't run blitz the whole game, you'll get out-witted.
Another Point of View Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 At some point the Bills need to start Maybin, perhaps suffer but eventually he should be fine!
Clippers of Nfl Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Amongst the Bills many glaring holes, the one that stands out the most to me is a pass rusher. Counting on the front the 3 to provide anything more than a push inside is a bit to optimistic. So that leaves the OLB's, who are all transitioning from DE and have proven to be terrible pass rushers. Sure Maybin (Which is no excuse) is young but if Chris Ellis(0 sacks in 2 seasons) was a threat he would have played the last 2 years. Reggie Torbor.....is Reggie Torbor. So that leaves Chris Kelsay, who has to have pictures of the front office in a Caligula type situation, as the only other guy with an NFL sack. I realize that the 3-4 is about coming from different angles and not just about bring pressure from the outside, but this will create 1 on1 situations with Kelsay/Ellis/Maybin on RB's and TE's and that is a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure how a guy like Bobby Mccray, who was banged up most of last year, is not brought into to at least get a look! This is going to be a very frustrating year because I truly think this offense is going to score but I just don't think that the Bills are going to stop the pass. It's not about secondary, it'll be about the rush. I just don't understand how this wasn't addressed at all during the offseason/draft/current FA period. its funny how you dont even mention our front 3. but whatever marcus stroud is in the best shape of his life. and he is not a nose anymore. he is now a de. so stroud is a good starting point. how about newly signed VETERAN andra davis. or rookie moats. the only thing you were right about was how bad kelsay is.
SteamRoller67 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 its funny how you dont even mention our front 3. but whatever marcus stroud is in the best shape of his life. and he is not a nose anymore. he is now a de. so stroud is a good starting point. how about newly signed VETERAN andra davis. or rookie moats. the only thing you were right about was how bad kelsay is. Where to start with this mess.... 3-4 defensive ends are not pass rushers. Once in a while a Bruce Smith or Mario Williams comes along, but it's a short list. Andra Davis is a run stopper, nothing more. he had 5 sacks once, followed by 3.5 as his personal bests. http://www.nfl.com/players/andradavis/profile?id=DAV121395 The pass rush from the 3-4 is provided by the OLB's or a combination of secondary blitz packages. The Bills D in 2010 is a carbon copy of the Steelers, with much less talent. I would venture to guess Donte Whitner has more sacks than Andra Davis in 2010 playing the Polamalu role.
Special_K Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 I would venture to guess Donte Whitner has more sacks than Andra Davis in 2010 playing the Polamalu role. I wouldn't discount George Wilson having a big year in that sort of role. He's shown some proclivity as a blitzer and has a knack for making big plays when he's on the field.
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