Health insurance premiums going up, thanks to new legislation

[drnykterstein]

3x to 4x

Lies. At least be realistic in your fantasy land arguments.

 

Right. Enjoy paying 3x to 4x more for health insurance including higher deductibles, higher premiums, higher co-insurance percentages. It WILL happen. Take it to the bank. This "reform" is going to destroy the average working man's budget, not to mention the country's.

I'll assume you have a more realistic number, such as 5% rise in costs and I'll respond to that. I don't love the HC bill, but the mandate was the thing that tries to address these cost problems. In 2014 when the full bill is in effect if the mandate works as advertised, costs should go down.

 

.. but if not, you live in a society. Deal with it. You can't kill people just because it's not profitable for you.

Edited September 9, 2010 by conner

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Lies. At least be realistic in your fantasy land arguments.

 

Uh, numbskull, I SELL INSURANCE IN 50 STATES!

 

Guess what, the health insurance I sell in NY is at LEAST 2-3 times as expensive as in, say, Alabama. And it has nothing to do with geography. It has everything to do with the fact that health questions can't be asked on applications to quantify risk.

 

 

I'll assume you have a more realistic number, such as 5% rise in costs and I'll respond to that. I don't love the HC bill, but the mandate was the thing that tries to address these cost problems. In 2014 when the full bill is in effect if the mandate works as advertised, costs should go down.

 

<mr. hand>

 

Are all you kids on dope?!?

 

</mr. hand>

 

What, in your completely NON-expert opinion, makes you think that when insurers are FORCED to insure unhealthy people with NO LIFETIME MAXIMUMS makes you think that costs for health insurance will decrease? It defies economic reality, conner. Let me write this out in crayons for you:

 

If you force insurers to insure the previously uninsurable, you'll be warm and fuzzy but EVERYONE will pay higher costs for less coverage. It's either that or the companies go under.

[drnykterstein]

Uh, numbskull, I SELL INSURANCE IN 50 STATES!

 

Guess what, the health insurance I sell in NY is at LEAST 2-3 times as expensive as in, say, Alabama. And it has nothing to do with geography. It has everything to do with the fact that health questions can't be asked on applications to quantify risk.

 

 

 

 

<mr. hand>

 

Are all you kids on dope?!?

 

</mr. hand>

 

What, in your completely NON-expert opinion, makes you think that when insurers are FORCED to insure unhealthy people with NO LIFETIME MAXIMUMS makes you think that costs for health insurance will decrease? It defies economic reality, conner. Let me write this out in crayons for you:

 

If you force insurers to insure the previously uninsurable, you'll be warm and fuzzy but EVERYONE will pay higher costs for less coverage. It's either that or the companies go under.

Does the word "mandate" just not register in your head? Not to say I agree with it, but it is law, and it is intended to lower the costs.

 

I like how you say insurance rates will go up 300%, and you still manage to take yourself serious as a human being.

 

also..

 

You can't kill people just because it's not profitable

[BB27]

Does the word "mandate" just not register in your head? Not to say I agree with it, but it is law, and it is intended to lower the costs.

 

I like how you say insurance rates will go up 300%, and you still manage to take yourself serious as a human being.

 

also..

 

You can't kill people just because it's not profitable

I've resisted till now, you sir, are an idiot.

 

Drink the kool aid and be happy!

[Doc]

The first national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 2, 2010. Do your part to help defund this monstrosity. The second national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 6, 2012. Do your part then to repeal this monstrosity.

[drnykterstein]

I've resisted till now, you sir, are an idiot.

 

Drink the kool aid and be happy!

 

 

The first national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 2, 2010. Do your part to help defund this monstrosity. The second national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 6, 2012. Do your part then to repeal this monstrosity.

 

Lol, I have to say, sometimes I do love this bill, if only because it pisses you people off so much.

[Doc]

Lol, I have to say, sometimes I do love this bill, if only because it pisses you people off so much.

Not as much as it will piss you off when it disappears.

[jjamie12]

You can't kill people just because it's not profitable

 

You are so divorced from reality it is breathtaking. It's amazing to me that anyone can say something like this with a straight face, it really is... and you question other people's sanity in the same thread as this nonsense?

Edited September 9, 2010 by jjamie12

[Doc]

You are so divorced from reality it is breathtaking. It's amazing to me that anyone can say something like this with a straight face, it really is... and you question other people's sanity in the same thread as this nonsense?

The irony here is that one of Obamacare's goals is to establish "death panels," which will, well, "kill people just because it's not profitable."

[Dante]

The first national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 2, 2010. Do your part to help defund this monstrosity. The second national "Take Out The Trash" day is coming November 6, 2012. Do your part then to repeal this monstrosity.

[KD in CA]

Does the word "mandate" just not register in your head? Not to say I agree with it, but it is law, and it is intended to lower the costs.

 

 

Yeah, no need to worry about economic reality -- the Messiah said it would reduce costs!

 

JHC, you are dumber than a bag of sand.

[BB27]

Yeah, no need to worry about economic reality -- the Messiah said it would reduce costs!

 

JHC, you are dumber than a bag of sand.

 

I prefer to think of him as dumber than a box of rocks myself.

[OCinBuffalo]

I have a theory....about conner. Let's take this post and see if it applies.

Does the word "mandate" just not register in your head? Not to say I agree with it, but it is law, and it is intended to lower the costs.

He doesn't agree with it...but he makes sure to get the talking point out there again. I mean the words..."lower the costs". Who cares that anyone with any business or economic education knows that this is impossible? All he wants is to say the same words again. Oh, and remind us of the "success" of getting the "law" passed. Also a consistent, while ineffective, talking point.

I like how you say insurance rates will go up 300%, and you still manage to take yourself serious as a human being.

Of course a personal attack is used instead of an actual refutation of the statement. We refute conner all the time here, but he never bothers to actually attempt to refute any of us. Instead, he moves on to another thread, or, more likely, starts a new one himself. Or, he spams us with links...in the hopes that we will click on them...which serves both the purpose of getting us to read "the billboard" again, and, drives traffic to these sites.

You can't kill people just because it's not profitable

And of course, another pointless platitude, that attributes "killing people" to people that don't agree...with an asinine bill that has 0 chance of ever lowering costs.

 

See what he did here? The conversation is about costs...but that's not going anywhere, so, conner makes sure to get one last unrelated talking point/ridiculous platitude in before he abandons yet another thread.

 

So here's my theory: conner is a paid political troll. His only concern is about making sure our eyes read the same retarded words as many times as possible, much the same way a billboard works.

Edited September 10, 2010 by OCinBuffalo

[Magox]

As you guys know I went into great detail regarding this topic. This isn't a surprise....

 

 

However I will note that the bad economy is also causing rates to go up as well. As the economy remains poor, more people are dropping their coverage, which means that the risk pool is diminishing which in turn drives up premiums.

In between the extreme rhetoric from all of your arguments on this board, the reality is that rates won't go up nearly as much due to the health care legislation as Joe says or costs will be contained as much as the resident idiot believes.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575482213099258430.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_6

 

Notice this article was written today, my post was from yesterday.

 

Ms. Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans, said: "It's a basic law of economics that additional benefits incur additional costs, and the impact on premiums depends on the type and amount of coverage policyholders had before." She attributed rising premiums to the higher price of medical services and the impact of younger and healthier people dropping their insurance during the weak economy, as well as the additional benefits required under the new law.

 

As I said, the weak economy is playing a huge role in the:

The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday that some carriers are asking for total premium hikes topping 20% starting this month, and the carriers are attributing one to nine percentage points of the increases to new benefit mandates in the law.

 

Of course extra benefits provided from the health care law will add to costs. Only an idiot or a partisan would disagree with this.

Beginning Sept. 23 or later, many new plans for individuals and small employers must begin letting children stay on their parents' insurance policies until age 26. These plans also face a requirement to eliminate co-payments for preventive care, give coverage to children regardless of pre-existing medical conditions and eliminate lifetime coverage caps.

 

For you idiots, do you believe this goes without cost? Who pays for it? It goes to premiums you dumbasses. So when the Health insurers are telling us that 1-9% of the rate increase is due to "new benefit mandates in the law", then it's only REASONABLE to expect this sort of increase.

 

Of course, the White House gets a temper tantrum when these things occur:

 

"There will be zero tolerance for this type of misinformation and unjustified rate increases," Ms. Sebelius wrote. "We will not stand idly by as insurers blame their premium hikes and increased profits on the requirement that they provide consumers with basic protections."

 

It's just common basic sense that if there are more people dropping out of the health pools, specially younger and healthier ones, that rates will increase. It is also natural to expect higher premiums if more benefits are added.

 

Rational thinking people see this, I made this case A GAZILLION times before the health insurance law came into effect, and VOILA!!!! Here we are seeing the first signs of it.

 

It will get worse, because the benefits have just began, wait until the rest of them kick in! The big kicker will come when NO ONE can get denied health insurance, that's when we'll see many people dropping their insurance, and opting for the ridiculously low penalties which won't be enough of a penalty do discourage people from dropping their coverage.

 

Oh, and how much do you guys want to bet that there will be a lot of people that won't end up paying that penalty? Look at all the fraud in Medicare, when the CBO made these scores, they didn't account for ANY fraud. I checked it, I read it and they went based on everything going smoothly.

 

No one ever made a stink about that, but there will be tons of fraudulent activity in this health insurance law, and guess who'll pay for it?

Edited September 10, 2010 by Magox

[DC Tom]

You can't kill people just because it's not profitable

 

Implying it's the insurance industry's responsibility to keep them alive in the first place.

[Chef Jim]

Implying it's the insurance industry's responsibility to keep them alive in the first place.

 

The best part is letting people die is better for the bottom line.

[Rob's House]

When family XYZ was not able to acquire insurance because they would cut into the insurance companies profit margin.

Once again, you and the feel good crowd create some "right" in your heads, but instead of giving of yourselves to rectify the situation, you impose your will by force on the rest of us so as not to put youself at a "competetive disadvantage". God forbid it cost you anything to do the "right thing".

 

 

Your inability to deal with the reality that unlimited access to the most technologically advanced medical technology known to man for everyone who happens to exist within our borders doesn't make you compassionate or enlightened, it means you can't accept the world the way it is, and when enough of you form a voting block, it makes you dangerous.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Rob's House

[KD in CA]

The best part is letting people die is better for the bottom line.

 

 

You mean insurance companies don't get a big rebate when people die? I thought they also got a bonus if there was a lot of suffering involved.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

How do you argue with someone that denies the basic laws of supply and demand?

[DC Tom]

How do you argue with someone that denies the basic laws of supply and demand?

 

Judging by the health care legislation, there's a "consensus" that macroeconomics no longer matters, so supply and demand is "scientifically" disproven.