Stadium Wall vs Buffalo News/

[Delete This Account]

you should go back and re-read some of your posts in this thread. bit hypocritical, IMO

 

b44

i think i've explained myself quite clearly in this thread. the original poster suggested (and i'm paraphrasing here) that TSW was a far superior place for informed discussion than The Buffalo News, and then went on to disparage some of its writers.

i disagreed and questioned whether this board's relevance is dropping given some of the "yahoos" that have been posting here of late. (and heck, i might be one of them.)

 

some posters agreed with my observation.

others then went on to prove my point by calling writers "hacks" and "morons" and one suggesting a newspaper should close.

 

what exactly have i done wrong, but question the original poster's premise without calling anyone a moron, idiot or hack. if yahoo hits a little too close to home for some, well, pardon me.

 

how this all makes me hypocritical is beyond me. what's apparent, is that i'm not the only one having concerns with an element of posters here with a disregard for good taste and a feeling of self-entitlement to believe they're free to post anything without fear of being called out for it.

 

i called them out and suddenly i'm in the wrong?

guess you got me then.

 

jw

Edited September 8, 2010 by john wawrow

[Webster Guy]

The Buffalo News isn't the Bills' public relations or marketing arm.

Obviously not, because Sunday is sold out despite "nobody being pumped"

 

Agreed.

 

A couple hundred diehard message board fans are not reflective of the community as a whole. This micro-community has a distorted view of reality, but it makes them feel important and relevant. Maybe this explains how slighted everyone seems to feel around here about any article or commentary either locally or nationally that criticizes Buffalo or the Bills.

 

The Bills have lost all relevancy to 99.999% of the population, but they are very relevant to the upset commentators on this message board.

 

I learned a long time ago that being a dedicated fan involves using both your head and your heart. A lot of people only use their heart and therefore are hurt by every little criticism even though the it may be completely justified.

I wasn't hurt by the criticism. The game is sold out and every Bills fan I know is excited. We arent Jacksonville. Buffalo loves this team, so why write an article that says the rivalry is ho hum. Silly thats all. Its JV crap.

[Delete This Account]

Obviously not, because Sunday is sold out despite "nobody being pumped"

 

 

I wasn't hurt by the criticism. The game is sold out and every Bills fan I know is excited. We arent Jacksonville. Buffalo loves this team, so why write an article that says the rivalry is ho hum. Silly thats all. Its JV crap.

so, what you're saying is "Henne vs. Edwards" = "Marino vs. Kelly." and i'm sure you're also suggesting that should the Bills win on Sunday, fans will rush the field and tear the goal-posts down. obviously, we all must agree that Karlos Dansby will enter the stadium and greet the crowd with two certain fingers in the air. and it has been the Dolphins' domination of the Bills that has prevented Buffalo from making the playoffs for the past 10 years. of course, we can also point out that despite the Bills not making the playoffs, they've ruined the Dolphins' Super Bowl hopes since Van Pelt took over for Rob Johnson as starter -- yeah, that was a classic matchup Van Pelt vs. Fiedler: yikes.

 

real Yankees-Red Sox stuff here.

 

no, Buffalo's not Jacksonville, and this town does love the Bills.

this rivalry however, at this point in time is, in fact, ho hum by any stretch of the imagination and given the comparisons of then vs. now. sure, bills fans don't like the Dolphins. i'm sure the newer fans hate the Browns just as much for they've had Buffalo's number of late.

 

jw

[bowery4]

Browns grrrrrr only thing I can say about the Browns is their nick name is the right color.

6-3 was sooooooooooooooooo :censored: embarrassing it is no surprise the way ppl think of our team.

[Dan]

so, what you're saying is "Henne vs. Edwards" = "Marino vs. Kelly." and i'm sure you're also suggesting that should the Bills win on Sunday, fans will rush the field and tear the goal-posts down. obviously, we all must agree that Karlos Dansby will enter the stadium and greet the crowd with two certain fingers in the air. and it has been the Dolphins' domination of the Bills that has prevented Buffalo from making the playoffs for the past 10 years. of course, we can also point out that despite the Bills not making the playoffs, they've ruined the Dolphins' Super Bowl hopes since Van Pelt took over for Rob Johnson as starter -- yeah, that was a classic matchup Van Pelt vs. Fiedler: yikes.

 

real Yankees-Red Sox stuff here.

 

no, Buffalo's not Jacksonville, and this town does love the Bills.

this rivalry however, at this point in time is, in fact, ho hum by any stretch of the imagination and given the comparisons of then vs. now. sure, bills fans don't like the Dolphins. i'm sure the newer fans hate the Browns just as much for they've had Buffalo's number of late.

jw

Now that's hurts. ...take it back.

[flomoe]

so, what you're saying is "Henne vs. Edwards" = "Marino vs. Kelly." and i'm sure you're also suggesting that should the Bills win on Sunday, fans will rush the field and tear the goal-posts down. obviously, we all must agree that Karlos Dansby will enter the stadium and greet the crowd with two certain fingers in the air. and it has been the Dolphins' domination of the Bills that has prevented Buffalo from making the playoffs for the past 10 years. of course, we can also point out that despite the Bills not making the playoffs, they've ruined the Dolphins' Super Bowl hopes since Van Pelt took over for Rob Johnson as starter -- yeah, that was a classic matchup Van Pelt vs. Fiedler: yikes.

 

real Yankees-Red Sox stuff here.

 

no, Buffalo's not Jacksonville, and this town does love the Bills.

this rivalry however, at this point in time is, in fact, ho hum by any stretch of the imagination and given the comparisons of then vs. now. sure, bills fans don't like the Dolphins. i'm sure the newer fans hate the Browns just as much for they've had Buffalo's number of late.

 

jw

 

 

When you put it that way, you make a pretty good point about the writer's article.

 

All I am saying is that the majority of people in Buffalo are fans of the team. Throw in an opening day against a longtime rival, or a win or two here and there and they are much more rabid than being just casual fans as the News writer is suggesting. Maybe I misinterpreted him assumption of the pulse of the city when it comes to the Bills fans and maybe I am just out of the loop since I don't live there anymore, but I stand behind my statement about the writer. It sounds like he is just tossing out something controversial just to get a few more readers and he is just jumping on the negative Nancy bandwagon with the rest of the country. He is a local writer though and should have a better feel for the fans that he is targeting with his writing.

[GOBILLS78]

Buffalo media seems to be the only non-homer media in the league. Even Philly media can be supportive once in a while and craft credible arguments for the Sixers to be in the NBA playoffs and Kolb performing better than McNabb is his first year.

 

But there's hope for the Eagles. The News writes positive stuff about the Sabres -- and Bills -- when they are playing well. Let's please not forget that it's a news organization, not a marketing company.

 

Obviously not, because Sunday is sold out despite "nobody being pumped"

 

I'm willing to say the bulk of Average Joe fans are just as pumped about the atmosphere -- home Bills games are cultural events that happen only seven times a year -- than the actual football game. The game wasn't sold out because of the Bills-Dolphins rivalry, that's for sure, so his point is still well made.

Edited September 9, 2010 by GOBILLS78

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

how much bad can anyone realistically take, though?

 

jw

 

You could ask a Dolphins fan the same thing. They've gone 79-81 the last decade. Over the same decade the Bills have gone 66-94. The Dolphins have won 13 more games in a decade than the Bills, that's 1.3 more games per year.

 

From 2004 to present the Dolphins had a record of 38-58, while the Bills went 41-55. The Dolphins also experienced a spike of 11 wins in 2008.

 

Let's not let the Dolphins escape from being a part of the rivalries recent decline. However guys like Dan Lebatard ridicule the Bills on a national scene, and our home town writers join in. The fact is the Dolphins are at minimum just as bad as the Bills, and one could argue more recently have been worse. The Dolphins are the joke of the AFC East.

[Kelly the Dog]

You could ask a Dolphins fan the same thing. They've gone 79-81 the last decade. Over the same decade the Bills have gone 66-94. The Dolphins have won 13 more games in a decade than the Bills, that's 1.3 more games per year.

 

From 2004 to present the Dolphins had a record of 38-58, while the Bills went 41-55. The Dolphins also experienced a spike of 11 wins in 2008.

 

Let's not let the Dolphins escape from being a part of the rivalries recent decline. However guys like Dan Lebatard ridicule the Bills on a national scene, and our home town writers join in. The fact is the Dolphins are at minimum just as bad as the Bills, and one could argue more recently have been worse. The Dolphins are the joke of the AFC East.

One thing that hasn't been addressed in this thread that relates to what you're saying is, unfortunately, the Bills biggest game and rival used to be the Dolphins, but the Dolphins biggest game and rival was never the Bills, it was the Jets. Even when the Fins were killing the Bills, their biggest rival for their team and fans were the Jets. Even when we had the Super Bowl years and repeatedly crushed the Dolphins, their biggest rival was the Jets. It was only the Bills fans and team that had the rivalry that meant so much.

 

Sure, it was a division rival and the games were crucial to both teams and both teams fans, but to the Dolphins organization, players and fans, the Bills were like the Patriots to us. Sure we hate them, but not nearly as much as we hate the Fins.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

One thing that hasn't been addressed in this thread that relates to what you're saying is, unfortunately, the Bills biggest game and rival used to be the Dolphins, but the Dolphins biggest game and rival was never the Bills, it was the Jets. Even when the Fins were killing the Bills, their biggest rival for their team and fans were the Jets. Even when we had the Super Bowl years and repeatedly crushed the Dolphins, their biggest rival was the Jets. It was only the Bills fans and team that had the rivalry that meant so much.

 

Sure, it was a division rival and the games were crucial to both teams and both teams fans, but to the Dolphins organization, players and fans, the Bills were like the Patriots to us. Sure we hate them, but not nearly as much as we hate the Fins.

 

You're exactly right, but the reason for that is the over all lack of respect given to the Bills. The Dolphins and their media outlets won't recognize the rivalry because the don't want to be associated with it. It's like it would be beneath them to do so. But the facts are the facts, it's a perception issue. And I'm disappointed with guys like John Wawrow that allow this misconception to go on. We are good enough or they are bad enough to be our rivals, take your pick. And maybe rivalry isn't the word, because that's not my point. My point is they're team and organization can be argued to be worse than ours. So the Buffalo media and National media reporting on the Bills (Tim Graham), need to have the guts to write an article debunking the garbage coming out of the Miami media talking heads like Lebatard. There is a debate there, do your research and stick up for the team - the organization - and Bills fans alike. Don't cowardly pile on, just because it's a harder road to defend us.

[murra]

well, if they can dish it out to sportswriters with an all-too-generalizing sweep of a brush, then i guess i'm free to respond in kind. to be fair, i did have one positive post in suggesting Bills fans have a chance to be No. 1 at something. why shoot for second?

 

jw

 

Actually, as far as sport teams message boards go, I'm very surprised at the above average level or grammar and insightful posts (also complete sentences and lack of children).

 

I think there are childish fans out there on these boards, but if you just go to a Raiders message board for example, its difficult to read, hard to follow, and filled with ridiculous images, long rap lyric signatures and swearing.

 

Sure we're a negative bunch... It's easy to get down on the media when your team has been below average for 10 consecutive seasons.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Actually, as far as sport teams message boards go, I'm very surprised at the above average level or grammar and insightful posts (also complete sentences and lack of children).

 

I think there are childish fans out there on these boards, but if you just go to a Raiders message board for example, its difficult to read, hard to follow, and filled with ridiculous images, long rap lyric signatures and swearing.

 

Sure we're a negative bunch... It's easy to get down on the media when your team has been below average for 10 consecutive seasons.

 

Leave the Dolphins alone.

[Delete This Account]

You could ask a Dolphins fan the same thing. They've gone 79-81 the last decade. Over the same decade the Bills have gone 66-94. The Dolphins have won 13 more games in a decade than the Bills, that's 1.3 more games per year.

 

From 2004 to present the Dolphins had a record of 38-58, while the Bills went 41-55. The Dolphins also experienced a spike of 11 wins in 2008.

 

Let's not let the Dolphins escape from being a part of the rivalries recent decline. However guys like Dan Lebatard ridicule the Bills on a national scene, and our home town writers join in. The fact is the Dolphins are at minimum just as bad as the Bills, and one could argue more recently have been worse. The Dolphins are the joke of the AFC East.

they are not. the Bills are the team that deserves to be dismissed in the AFC East based on their record and perennial state of dysfunction over the past 10 years. the Dolphins have MADE the playoffs over that stretch. and they've done it with an unlikely group of quarterbacks. Jay Fiedler, Chad Pennington.

 

the Bills have not, and they've gone through a carousel of posers and wannabes and busts at that position alone.

the Dolphins also deserve credit for making a remarkable turnaround, going from 1-15 to 11-5 over the course of one year. the Bills can't make that claim.

 

i'm not being negative just to be negative, but you have to objectively look at the facts.

the Bills -- not the Dolphins -- are the one team tied with Detroit for the NFL's longest current playoff drought. it's never good to be included in the same sentence as the Lions.

 

heck, even Bills players don't dismiss their past. until the Bills prove they can get their act together, they will be dismissed as also-rans. don't like it, too bad. and sure that's frustrating. but life's freakin' tough and unfair, and that's the way things work in a world without rose-colored glasses.

 

jw

 

You're exactly right, but the reason for that is the over all lack of respect given to the Bills. The Dolphins and their media outlets won't recognize the rivalry because the don't want to be associated with it. It's like it would be beneath them to do so. But the facts are the facts, it's a perception issue. And I'm disappointed with guys like John Wawrow that allow this misconception to go on. We are good enough or they are bad enough to be our rivals, take your pick. And maybe rivalry isn't the word, because that's not my point. My point is they're team and organization can be argued to be worse than ours. So the Buffalo media and National media reporting on the Bills (Tim Graham), need to have the guts to write an article debunking the garbage coming out of the Miami media talking heads like Lebatard. There is a debate there, do your research and stick up for the team - the organization - and Bills fans alike. Don't cowardly pile on, just because it's a harder road to defend us.

what misconception? is it the misconception that the Bills carry little respect around the league? well, sorry fro being a realist, but that's the case. as i don't work for the Bills, i also don't work for the Dolphins, and i don't live in south Florida. and if i did, i don't know if i'd accept the case at this point that the Bills are the Dolphins biggest rivals.

 

given that the Dolphins are competing with the Jets and Patriots for the AFC East title this year, I'd have to say their biggest rivals are, well, the Jets and Patriots. that's until the Bills finally show something different.

 

jw

Edited September 9, 2010 by john wawrow

[BuffOrange]

It's hard to believe there are people arguing the rivalry isn't a shadow of its former self. Even as someone who didn't live thru the 70's it was very easy to hate all of the overrated media hyped loud-mouths on their team during the Marino era. Same for the J. Johnson years culminating in the atrocious officiating in the '98 game. When Wanndsteadt took over, something happened. It wasn't that Miami got worse, because they were still the same 10-6 team most years. But they seemed to have fewer thugs that were easy to hate. Or maybe I got older and realized the players on the two teams weren't much different. Or maybe I stopped seeking out Dolphin message boards. Or maybe the Bills have sucked ever since. Or maybe the Patriots have been too good and gotten too many ridiculous calls in their favor. Or maybe as John so eloquently put it, the Fiedler vs. AVP games were kind of a joke. Whatever it is, it's definitely not the same to me. Not that I'm the spokesperson for all Bills fans, but there are obviously a non-negligible # of us who feel this way. As mentioned it was never "the game" from Miami's pov anyway save for our SB years.

Edited September 9, 2010 by BuffOrange

[GOBILLS78]

the Bills have not, and they've gone through a carousel of posers and wannabes and busts at that position alone.

 

Nobody talks about Travis Brown like that and gets away with it.

[Kelly the Dog]

The rivalry also lost a good amount of its luster because of Bellicheat. I used to hate the Dolphins far more than I hated the Pats. Now, I hate the Pats much worse, and would much rather beat the Pats than beat the Dolphins, and it has very little to do with the Pats being a better team so a win over them would be good in the standings. Or even the Bills falling on hard times, or whatever has happened to the Fins. I just hate the Patsies with a passion, and mostly because of Bellicheat (with dishonorable mention to scumbags like Rodney Harrison and Wilfork, as well as the easily despised Bruschi). I think Brady is a great player and I hate him and hope he gets in a crash crash. (See? Sometimes dreams do come true!)

 

I don't hate anyone on the Dolphins right now. I just don't think they are all that good.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

they are not. the Bills are the team that deserves to be dismissed in the AFC East based on their record and perennial state of dysfunction over the past 10 years. the Dolphins have MADE the playoffs over that stretch. and they've done it with an unlikely group of quarterbacks. Jay Fiedler, Chad Pennington.

 

the Bills have not, and they've gone through a carousel of posers and wannabes and busts at that position alone.

the Dolphins also deserve credit for making a remarkable turnaround, going from 1-15 to 11-5 over the course of one year. the Bills can't make that claim.

 

i'm not being negative just to be negative, but you have to objectively look at the facts.

the Bills -- not the Dolphins -- are the one team tied with Detroit for the NFL's longest current playoff drought. it's never good to be included in the same sentence as the Lions.

 

heck, even Bills players don't dismiss their past. until the Bills prove they can get their act together, they will be dismissed as also-rans. don't like it, too bad. and sure that's frustrating. but life's freakin' tough and unfair, and that's the way things work in a world without rose-colored glasses.

 

jw

 

 

what misconception? is it the misconception that the Bills carry little respect around the league? well, sorry be a realist, but that's the case. as i don't work for the Bills, i also don't work for the Dolphins, and i don't live in south Florida. and if i did, i don't know if i'd accept the case at this point that the Bills are the Dolphins biggest rivals.

 

given that the Dolphins are competing with the Jets and Patriots for the AFC East title this year, I'd have to say their biggest rivals are, well, the Jets and Patriots. that's until the Bills finally show something different.

 

jw

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think you're failing to look at the facts objectively. You're following the trend of most writers. You're contending that there's an argument. And I'm not talking rivalry (I stated that is not the word to use). I'm saying the Dolphins haven't been better by such a margin that it's not within the realm of discussion that the Bills at the very least are competitive with the Dolphins. Albeit not for the AFC East, etc. but in comparison to each other.

 

For example you stated that "given that the Dolphins are competing with the Jets and Patriots for the AFC East title this year". How do you know they are competing for the division, they haven't played any games yet? This is bias and not fact. You're stating it as fact, so I'm not putting words into your mouth. Now if you said it was your opinion that they will compete that's different, but you're not. Hence you aren't looking at the facts, you're following the Lebatard style bashing, that the Bills are the joke of the division. I'm merely submitting that there's reasonable facts to support it's the Dolphins.

 

I look at the 1-15 to 11-5 so called turn around this way. They went 7-9 last year. So in my view there's an argument converse to the one you make. You build them up for the turn around, but I say it's indicative to how poor they are by loosing 4 more games the following year.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Buffalonian-at-Heart

[Delete This Account]

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think you're failing to look at the facts objectively. You're following the trend of most writers. You're contending that there's an argument. And I'm not talking rivalry (I stated that is not the word to use). I'm saying the Dolphins haven't been better by such a margin that it's not within the realm of discussion that the Bills at the very least are competitive with the Dolphins. Albeit not for the AFC East, etc. but in comparison to each other.

 

For example you stated that "given that the Dolphins are competing with the Jets and Patriots for the AFC East title this year". How do you know they are competing for the division, they haven't played any games yet? This is bias and not fact. You're stating is fact, so I'm not putting words into your mouth. Now if you said it was your opinion that they will compete that's different, but you're not.

 

I look at the 1-15 to 11-5 so called turn around this way. They went 7-9 last year. So in my view there's an argument converse to the one you make. You build them up for the turn around, but I say it's indicative to how poor they are by loosing 4 more games the following year.

and the Bills have gone backward over the past four seasons. what's your point?

 

i'm not following any trend. you conveniently cherry pick a stat by comparing the two franchises from 2004 and note the Bills have a better record since then. well, that's fine and dandy. though you leave out the fact that the Dolphins actually won the AFC East during that time while the Bills have not and now going on their third coach.

as for my contention that the Dolphins are vying for the division title this season, well, just look at their track record and talent: they have two solid running backs. they've added a proven wide receiver to add a new dimension. and Chad Henne went 7-6 as a first-time starter last year. in fact, the Dolphins were in contention right through December. the Bills were not and, rather, were mired in the midst of another coaching change.

 

by comparison, the Bills added C.J. Spiller to an offense that's been among the NFL's worst over the past seven years. and they're making a huge transition to a 3-4 defense with a front-7 that had difficulty stopping the run. let's not forget the Bills 11 times gave up 150 or more yards rushing last season.

 

based on that, there stands a better chance for the Dolphins to be competitive than the Bills in this division.

 

jw

[GOBILLS78]

Hence you aren't looking at the facts, you're following the Lebatard style bashing, that the Bills are the joke of the division. I'm merely submitting that there's reasonable facts to support it's the Dolphins.

 

Come on, guy. The Bills haven't made the playoffs in a decade. Don't talk about objectivity and bias. It's clearly the Bills, and really, it's not all that close.

[Kelly the Dog]

Another thing that probably needs to be said here is that it's okay to completely disagree. It's okay to argue strongly who sucks and who is good. It's even okay to be wrong. We're passionate about the team and city, and our dislike for the stinking fish. These are just predictions and opinions, anyway.

 

The only FACT here is that your opinions and predictions are baseless, ill-advised, laughable, deranged drivel and mine are insightful, trenchant, inspired inarguable truths.