Terry Jones wins the dumb **** award

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Agreed. I put in the same category as burning the flag, the bible, the torah or any other symbolic form of speech; as well as the right to build a mosque where properly zoned. In the same vein, this guy and those like him are no better than those who preach hate against Christians, Jews, whites, blacks or anyone who isn't exactly like them.

 

I just hope he does not burn the Koran for the sake of tamping down the craziness that has inflicted this nation.

 

I'm curious, do you feel the same way, or are you more "selective."

 

I'm not selective. If people want to burn the Bible, I won't be happy about it, but I won't stop them. After all, the results are between them and the Almighty.

 

But if we're being selective in who we protect and who we laud, then to me, it's all or nothing. Don't say it's a hate crime to burn the Koran, but then approve of Federal funding of anti-Christian blasphemous "art."

 

Yeah, that was kind-of tongue-in-cheek. But only kind-of.

 

But even you have to admit that, although both are allowed freedoms, there's a qualitative difference between building a place of worship and destroying an icon of worship.

 

 

Certainly. I'm of the opinion that just because one is "free" to do soemthing doesn't mean one should do it. See: flag burning, wearing a sheet or calling for the shooting of cops.

[DC Tom]

But if we're being selective in who we protect and who we laud, then to me, it's all or nothing. Don't say it's a hate crime to burn the Koran, but then approve of Federal funding of anti-Christian blasphemous "art."

 

Hate crimes can only occur against minorities, Joe. You know that.

 

(Thus, my "kind-of" tongue-in-cheek post above.)

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Hate crimes can only occur against minorities, Joe. You know that.

 

(Thus, my "kind-of" tongue-in-cheek post above.)

 

 

Indeed.

 

That whole system of laws is Orwellian in its redefinition of language.

[KD in CA]

Now that he has media attention he will only persist.

 

Yup.

 

 

Dear Big Media,

 

Thanks for making sure this asshat that no one ever heard of before now has a global voice.

 

 

Me

[DC Tom]

Indeed.

 

That whole system of laws is Orwellian in its redefinition of language.

 

There's a whole shitload of current laws in this country that illustrate how the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Hate speech laws? Restrict freedom of speech. Sexual predator lists? Truly nasty due process issues.

 

Those are the two that most immediately come to mind. If I weren't busy, I'm sure I could list more.

[BuffaloBill]

Yup.

 

 

Dear Big Media,

 

Thanks for making sure this asshat that no one ever heard of before now has a global voice.

 

 

Me

 

 

One of the problems with this situation is that it drives idiots like Jones into a "one-up" mode. The vicious circle is that the media will not consider one of these lunatics news-worthy unless they upstage the last lunatic through ever more outrageous acts of protest. Why does the media not call these fringe people out for what they are? Why not report that the real story is that Jones is out for attention and willing to incite anger in an effort to achieve this?

 

Imagine that you are overseas and you see little else of the US. The media just gave great footage and "information" for tomorrows lessons at the madrahsah: says the teacher - "Look at what Americans think of you and your religion boys and girls. Now go strap a bomb to yourself and kill some of those evil Americans."

 

I still say if Jones has the balls to go to Afghanistan and carry out his protest more power to him. Otherwise, find some other form of protest.

[The Avenger]

Maybe we can get the fools at the Westboro Baptist Church to picket the event with their God Hates Fags signs, and after the flames are put out we could watch a steel cage match between Terry Jones and Fred Phelps - that would be an awsome pay per view event........

Edited September 8, 2010 by The Avenger

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Imagine that you are overseas and you see little else of the US. The media just gave great footage and "information" for tomorrows lessons at the madrahsah: says the teacher - "Look at what Americans think of you and your religion boys and girls. Now go strap a bomb to yourself and kill some of those evil Americans."

 

Here's the thing, though. Those crazies are going to blow themselves up anyway...BECAUSE WE ARE AMERICANS. They don't need some preacher at a small-town fringe church burning a Koran to go kablooey.

[BuffaloBill]

Here's the thing, though. Those crazies are going to blow themselves up anyway...BECAUSE WE ARE AMERICANS. They don't need some preacher at a small-town fringe church burning a Koran to go kablooey.

 

 

Really?? this is your argument?

 

Let the lunatic on our side act out because the lunatics on the other side are going to anyways?

 

I guess my mother was wrong when she told me "two wrongs don't make a right."

 

What ever happened to Americans acting in a way and supporting behavior that showed pride in who and what we are? We are a country that should be very proud that we allow forms of protest that are outrageous and uncomfortable. However, we should have more pride in our ability to refrain from giving attention and tacit support to the idiots who elect to do so.

[LeviF]

Here's the thing, though. Those crazies are going to blow themselves up anyway...BECAUSE WE ARE AMERICANS. They don't need some preacher at a small-town fringe church burning a Koran to go kablooey.

Sorry Joe, but those guys guys with bombs strapped to their chests? Yeah...they aren't thinking about politics.

 

Edit: The guys telling them to strap bombs to their chests, however, are another matter entirely.

Edited September 8, 2010 by LeviF91

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Really?? this is your argument?

 

Let the lunatic on our side act out because the lunatics on the other side are going to anyways?

 

I guess my mother was wrong when she told me "two wrongs don't make a right."

 

What ever happened to Americans acting in a way and supporting behavior that showed pride in who and what we are? We are a country that should be very proud that we allow forms of protest that are outrageous and uncomfortable. However, we should have more pride in our ability to refrain from giving attention and tacit support to the idiots who elect to do so.

 

Is it the preacher's problem that the slavering morons in the mainstream media have an obsession with stories like this? Dude has the right to burn the book. Media has a right to cover it. But my argument is that it makes not a whit of difference in the long haul. We're at war with antisemitic homicidal terroristic fanatics. You don't talk reasonably with those people, you kill them. My argument is whether or not the preacher burns the book, there are LEGIONS of people out there looking to die for their cause. So, because that's the case, we should not abridge the right to obnoxious protest and expression nor the coverage thereof because when we do (to ostensibly save the lives of soldiers), we have lost the greater ideological war in the most cowardly of ways.

 

Sorry Joe, but those guys guys with bombs strapped to their chests? Yeah...they aren't thinking about politics.

 

Edit: The guys telling them to strap bombs to their chests, however, are another matter entirely.

 

Hatred of America doesn't require politics. It just requires blind obedience to an imam.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Joe In Macungie

[LeviF]

Hatred of America doesn't require politics. It just requires blind obedience to an imam.

Pretty much the point I was trying to make with my edit.

[BuffaloBill]

Is it the preacher's problem that the slavering morons in the mainstream media have an obsession with stories like this? Dude has the right to burn the book. Media has a right to cover it. But my argument is that it makes not a whit of difference in the long haul. We're at war with antisemitic homicidal terroristic fanatics. You don't talk reasonably with those people, you kill them. My argument is whether or not the preacher burns the book, there are LEGIONS of people out there looking to die for their cause. So, because that's the case, we should not abridge the right to obnoxious protest and expression nor the coverage thereof because when we do (to ostensibly save the lives of soldiers), we have lost the greater ideological war in the most cowardly of ways.

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong as I do not disagree entirely with what you are saying. I am finding your thoughts interesting so I continue this in as much of a "conversation" that can be had through this means of communication.

 

Where we agree:

 

restating your initial question: preacher has the right to this form of protest and it is not his issue that the media elects to cover it as newsworthy (agreed)

 

"Media has a right to cover it."

 

"we should not abridge the right to obnoxious protest and expression nor the coverage"

 

"You don't talk reasonably with those people (extremists)"

 

Where I disagree:

 

Your "you kill them' is a simple tit for tat strategy that leads to no win on both sides. As quickly as you kill one there will likely be two to replace him /her. IMO the "battle" is won by getting moderates more involved on their side. If the Afghan people do not stand up to say we want to be rid of the Taliban or other extremeists then we will never be able to do it for them.

 

Where we may be more in agreement than you seem to imply:

 

You say: "we should not abridge the right to obnoxious protest and expression nor the coverage thereof because when we do (to ostensibly save the lives of soldiers), we have lost the greater ideological war in the most cowardly of ways."

 

I agree with your thoughts depending on who "we" is. I have been saying all along that Terry Jones should self select to change his form of protest. Where I believe we are in agreement is that the government nor the citizen population of the US should not stop him from his form of protest. He has garnered massive attention from the threat of his tactic. I believe that was his original intent. Now that he has the attention it would serve the interests of people serving in harms way to stand down and say "I am bigger than the idiots on the other side and will show this by acknowledging that while I have the right to do so I will not be burining the Koran."

[ExiledInIllinois]

Maybe we can get the fools at the Westboro Baptist Church to picket the event with their God Hates Fags signs, and after the flames are put out we could watch a steel cage match between Terry Jones and Fred Phelps - that would be an awsome pay per view event........

 

 

I an pretty sure the WBP and Jone's DWOC are allies...

 

From Wiki:

 

 

 

Endorsement of Westboro Baptist Church

In March 2010, Dove World posted a video which decried the possibility of an openly-gay mayor (in this case, current mayor Craig Lowe, who is the first openly gay mayor of Gainesville). It also posted a sign saying "No Homo Mayor"; after Americans United requested the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the sign as an undue participation of a non-political tax-exempt organization in the political process^[15], the church then changed the sign to simply read "No Homo"^[16].

 

On April 18, 2010, members of the church participated in a joint protest with the Westboro Baptist Church against homosexuality^[17]; the protest took place in front of Trinity United Methodist Church and the University of Florida Hillel.

 

Later, on April 21, Dove World member Fran Ingram published a blog post proclaiming the church's endorsements of the Westboro Baptist Church's protests against homosexuality and homosexuals.

 

 

 

I agree, for the most part. It's un-necessary agitation. But, I am also for his right to do so.

 

For the record, I also agree. Again, for the record...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I agree with your thoughts depending on who "we" is. I have been saying all along that Terry Jones should self select to change his form of protest. Where I believe we are in agreement is that the government nor the citizen population of the US should not stop him from his form of protest. He has garnered massive attention from the threat of his tactic. I believe that was his original intent. Now that he has the attention it would serve the interests of people serving in harms way to stand down and say "I am bigger than the idiots on the other side and will show this by acknowledging that while I have the right to do so I will not be burining the Koran."

 

Of course, that would be the ideal situation. That being said, if he does this stunt, then he'll pay the price, most likely. Don't think the crazies won't stop by his chuch with explosives. It is embarrassing that he is going to pull this kind of stuff under the guise of Christianity. We're taught to reason with others, to let the Spirit do the work. And he's doing a disservice to the cause, no doubt.

 

My beef isn't with your opinion, it's with the sensitivity movement in this country. We can't live life with concerns about being sensitive to everyone's backgrounds. It's part of our problems, of that I haev no doubt. OUr commonalities as Americans have been drowned by sensitivity to our differences. That's what I'm worried about. In the mad dash to not offend Muslims we as a collective people will lose sight of the important things, such as the right to be a complete and utter **** if one wants.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Of course, that would be the ideal situation. That being said, if he does this stunt, then he'll pay the price, most likely. Don't think the crazies won't stop by his chuch with explosives. It is embarrassing that he is going to pull this kind of stuff under the guise of Christianity. We're taught to reason with others, to let the Spirit do the work. And he's doing a disservice to the cause, no doubt.

 

My beef isn't with your opinion, it's with the sensitivity movement in this country. We can't live life with concerns about being sensitive to everyone's backgrounds. It's part of our problems, of that I haev no doubt. OUr commonalities as Americans have been drowned by sensitivity to our differences. That's what I'm worried about. In the mad dash to not offend Muslims we as a collective people will lose sight of the important things, such as the right to be a complete and utter **** if one wants.

 

+1

[Booster4324]

For the record, I also agree. Again, for the record...

 

For the record, as I have not had time to chime in (either thread here or PPP), I also support Jones' right to be wrong. Of course if he somehow does it incorrectly and they nail him on a technicality of arson, it won't faze me. If he walks outside his house and to steal a phrase from Crayonz (sorta), someone lops his head off and it goes bouncing down the stairs, again no issues with it. I will want his killers arrested.

 

This really seems to tie into the Mosque near the site of the old WTC. I totally agreed with their right to build it and yet thought that they should have more sensitivity to other's feelings. The mischaracterization by the media of certain aspects of it was pathetic. The whole Cordoba name for an example. If they are genuine terrorists then simply monitor the **** out of them. Makes it way easier for LEO if they know where the bad guys are. Shut it down when you can prove it. It really is that simple.

 

This guy wants to burn books. That tells me all I need to know.

 

Some good posts in this thread, kudos guys.

[BuffaloBill]

Of course, that would be the ideal situation. That being said, if he does this stunt, then he'll pay the price, most likely. Don't think the crazies won't stop by his chuch with explosives. It is embarrassing that he is going to pull this kind of stuff under the guise of Christianity. We're taught to reason with others, to let the Spirit do the work. And he's doing a disservice to the cause, no doubt.

 

My beef isn't with your opinion, it's with the sensitivity movement in this country. We can't live life with concerns about being sensitive to everyone's backgrounds. It's part of our problems, of that I haev no doubt. OUr commonalities as Americans have been drowned by sensitivity to our differences. That's what I'm worried about. In the mad dash to not offend Muslims we as a collective people will lose sight of the important things, such as the right to be a complete and utter **** if one wants.

 

 

I could not agree more.

[ExiledInIllinois]

For the record, as I have not had time to chime in (either thread here or PPP), I also support Jones' right to be wrong. Of course if he somehow does it incorrectly and they nail him on a technicality of arson, it won't faze me. If he walks outside his house and to steal a phrase from Crayonz (sorta), someone lops his head off and it goes bouncing down the stairs, again no issues with it. I will want his killers arrested.

 

This really seems to tie into the Mosque near the site of the old WTC. I totally agreed with their right to build it and yet thought that they should have more sensitivity to other's feelings. The mischaracterization by the media of certain aspects of it was pathetic. The whole Cordoba name for an example. If they are genuine terrorists then simply monitor the **** out of them. Makes it way easier for LEO if they know where the bad guys are. Shut it down when you can prove it. It really is that simple.

 

This guy wants to burn books. That tells me all I need to know.

Some good posts in this thread, kudos guys.

 

:thumbsup:

[Andrew in CA]

Colonel Vogel: What does the diary tell you that it does not tell us?

 

Henry Jones: It tells me that goose-stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them!