Estro Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I remember a lot of talk from the draft pundits about Vladimir Ducasse as a late 1, early second round prospect in the draft. A lot of fans on this board seemed to like Ducasse a lot and some wanted him in the 2nd round. I got a chance to watch Ducasse a little bit in the Senior Bowl and also on some youtube clips. I couldn't believe the guy could be rated as a 1st or 2nd round prospect, as much as he struggled in the Senior Bowl. I thought maybe it was just a bad day, but even on his youtube clips he looked awfully slow to play tackle in the NFL. When the Jets switched him to G I thought it made sense because I saw him as a total bust as a T, but after watching him at G on "Hard Knocks" it looks like he sucks there too. Dude can't move at all. Ducasse was reportedly getting whooped so bad in Senior Bowl practices at left tackle that he pleaded with the coaches to switch him to G. It pleases me that it was the Jets that ended up nabbing him in round 2. The guy flat out sucks.
andrewsz1991 Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 He's actually my good friend from high school. He was picked for his potential, as a project player. He's got incredible size and strength, that superior to most nfl players. I absolutely hate the jets but I do think he'll work out with proper coaching.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Mike Tannenbaum has done a pretty good job drafting so far…more hits than misses. But to replace a perennial pro bowler, Alan Faneca (even if he was fading) with Ducasse is an interesting move by the Jets. I hope it dooms their season and that they're so bad that they go out of business.
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) He's actually my good friend from high school. He was picked for his potential, as a project player. He's got incredible size and strength, that superior to most nfl players. I absolutely hate the jets but I do think he'll work out with proper coaching. He seems like a nice kid and everything, but I'm not sure he's picking things up. When his teammates were talking to him about missing his assignment he seemed total clueless to what they were saying. He's got major foot work issues. My guess is he doesn't play much this year. Bigger project than most thought, including the Jets. Edited September 2, 2010 by Buffalonian-at-Heart
Estro Posted September 2, 2010 Author Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Strength is very important for NFL offensive lineman, but strength alone means nothing. Ducasse's footwork is sloppy and his playing speed is not close to NFL ready. I would be very uncomfortable spending a high draft pick on a guy who repeatedly got abused at the Senior Bowl. He stood out at UMass because he got away with just relying on his strength. I would be very surprised if Ducasse ever develops into a quality NFL starter. As poorly as the Bills have drafted in the past you have to give them credit for the Levitre and Wood picks. To find 2 quality G's (capable of starting as rookies)in the same draft is rare. I know the jury is still out on both of our 2nd year G's, but I happen to like both of them a lot. Edited September 2, 2010 by Estro
Mike in Syracuse Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Leif Larson has a lot of strength. Didn't mean much though.....
Zulu Cthulhu Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 It's funny because tannebaum seems like a total dingbat on hardknocks - just exudes a slow and stupid vibe. But san jose ia right he has a lot of hits and not many misses. Maybe that's a symptom of his scout team, maybe not.
JESSEFEFFER Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 One thing clear to me that explained a lot of their moves was their eye on the bottom line. Faneca, Jones, Coles last week, getting Clemmens to take a pay cut, maybe cutting Tony Richardson. They knew all along that Revis, Mangold and Ferguson were getting new deals and these other moves were made to accomodate them. IMO, paying a corner $150 million over 10 years will hurt the quality of the team almost everywhere else. This is why he is still sitting.
JohnC Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Mike Tannenbaum has done a pretty good job drafting so far…more hits than misses. But to replace a perennial pro bowler, Alan Faneca (even if he was fading) with Ducasse is an interesting move by the Jets. I hope it dooms their season and that they're so bad that they go out of business. I'm not telling you anything new but the Faneca departure wasn't about talent, it was about the contract. Do you commit to a player you believe to be on the downside or do you replace his roster spot with the very raw and cheaper rookie prospect? The Steelers were in the same situation with Faneca a few years ago. Faneca, rightly so, wanted to be paid as one of the top guards. The Steelers traded him or let him go to sign with the Jets. A number of posters have made a determination on Ducasse before he has even played in a regular season game. Who knows, maybe in a couple years he can turn out to be one of the better guards in the league? It took a very raw Jason Peters a few years before he was able to contribute on the field. No one can say that his development wasn't worth it. (Excluding the contract and trade scenario.) Organizations which know how to work the cap are more likely to have sustained success. They make the tough decisions sooner on a player who they project to be on the downside than teams which are less astute on managing their cap and roster. The Eagles knew what they were doing when they traded McNabb. It was a tough, unsentimental business decision. In today's NFL it is not just about talent. It is about the relationship of talent to contract. In addition, you can add a complicating layer of the relationship between the talent and contracts of a team competing with the contracts of players on the same team.
truth on hold Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I remember a lot of talk from the draft pundits about Vladimir Ducasse as a late 1, early second round prospect in the draft. A lot of fans on this board seemed to like Ducasse a lot and some wanted him in the 2nd round. I got a chance to watch Ducasse a little bit in the Senior Bowl and also on some youtube clips. I couldn't believe the guy could be rated as a 1st or 2nd round prospect, as much as he struggled in the Senior Bowl. I thought maybe it was just a bad day, but even on his youtube clips he looked awfully slow to play tackle in the NFL. When the Jets switched him to G I thought it made sense because I saw him as a total bust as a T, but after watching him at G on "Hard Knocks" it looks like he sucks there too. Dude can't move at all. Ducasse was reportedly getting whooped so bad in Senior Bowl practices at left tackle that he pleaded with the coaches to switch him to G. It pleases me that it was the Jets that ended up nabbing him in round 2. The guy flat out sucks. Campbell's another one who was supposed to be a "steal" post Rd 1 due to his combine #'s. Watching the guy actually play it's clear he's in the wrong sport.
Rob's House Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I read a column before the draft (can't remember the writer) who said Ducasse wouldn't work at tackle and will struggle in the NFL because he can't handle getting beaten, and in the NFL everyone gets beaten from time to time. He said that's why Eben Britton (sp?) is better than Eugene Monroe despite the latter's physical edge. Just like QBs, linemen have to have a short memory
JohnC Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I read a column before the draft (can't remember the writer) who said Ducasse wouldn't work at tackle and will struggle in the NFL because he can't handle getting beaten, and in the NFL everyone gets beaten from time to time. He said that's why Eben Britton (sp?) is better than Eugene Monroe despite the latter's physical edge. Just like QBs, linemen have to have a short memory You make an excellent point about how important a player's mental makeup is to being a success. But just like qbs linemen and other position players need time to develop. Getting beat is part of the learning and developing process. There are rookies who are instant successes. Those cases are usually the exception and not the rule. My primary point is that we shouldn't be too surprised when a fairly high profiled and drafted rookie struggles in training camp and his rookie year.
Ennjay Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I read a column before the draft (can't remember the writer) who said Ducasse wouldn't work at tackle and will struggle in the NFL because he can't handle getting beaten, and in the NFL everyone gets beaten from time to time. He said that's why Eben Britton (sp?) is better than Eugene Monroe despite the latter's physical edge. Just like QBs, linemen have to have a short memory You're absolutely right about mental makeup (like Yogi Berra said in a different context: "90% of this game is half mental"), but I can imagine another scout spinning this the opposite way -- that he loves Ducasse for his competitiveness and refusal to lose, etc.
dpberr Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I think the dumping of Faneca was related solely to money; not an endorsement of Ducasse. Can't keep everybody, and the Jets are ultra-cash strapped with debt up to their eyeballs as one of the most (if not the most) leveraged team in the NFL. It's the forthcoming financial apocalypse. The Jets have to go all in. They desperately need to sell as many tickets as possible to offset the stratospheric debt. If the Jets tank on the field, that will seriously cripple the entire organization and their ability to pay talent going forward. I know we talk primarily about what happens on the field, but in this economy, teams are winning and losing off the field as well. If teams aren't going to get the ticket sales, that debt has to be paid somehow, and that will likely translate in spending less on the field over the next five years. It will be financially-induced rebuilding. If you're the Bills, with zero debt, that presents an opportunity to get stronger on the field.
tbonestake Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 REALLY glad they passed on this guy too http://www.sammyvanhalen.com/
Cynical Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 REALLY glad they passed on this guy too http://www.sammyvanhalen.com/ It's Kenny !@#$ing Powers!
tbonestake Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 It's Kenny !@#$ing Powers! Make sure you read through the 'Ask Sammy' portion. It's friggin hilarious
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 In today's NFL it is not just about talent. It is about the relationship of talent to contract. In addition, you can add a complicating layer of the relationship between the talent and contracts of a team competing with the contracts of players on the same team. True enough. Teams will take a younger and cheaper guy with less talent over an older and more expensive player. It's the business side of the business.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 He's actually my good friend from high school. He was picked for his potential, as a project player. He's got incredible size and strength, that superior to most nfl players. I absolutely hate the jets but I do think he'll work out with proper coaching. How'd you become a Bills fan? How far did you grow up from The Headquarters?
DwightSchrute Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 I went to UMass, along with Ducasse and Tannenbaum. Might have something to do with drafting him (albeit a little). I think Vlad will be a starter soon enough, but he didn't start playing football until his junior year in Stamford, CT...not exactly a football hot bed. Was drafted as a project but does look raw at this point.
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