I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE SPILLER PICK!!!

[mpl6876]

First -- sarcasm is my thing. Get over it.

 

Second -- I see Leonidas and CarolinaBill were finally able to drag it out of you that if the Bills stayed at #9, Spiller appears to have been a pick even you would have made.

 

Third -- you failed to respond to any of my other points. You certainly ARE trying to play armchair GM by criticizing what the Bills did, and your response is a complete cop out because you don't propose any sort of an alternative other than a vague "I would have done it differently." You propose trading down like it's as simple as Buddy picking up the phone and selecting his preferred spot.

 

It is so EASY (and lazy) to sit back and critique others when you are not in their shoes. I've done it myself, and it's wrong. At least four times in your various responses to this thread you've used the words "none of us know the answer" or something to that effect, yet you have no problem saying the Bills did it the wrong way. I don't find you to be particularly credible because I still believe you're a troll masquerading as a Bills fan. After the first preseason game you made the ridiculous assertion that Chan Gailey should be embarrassed. That's the kind of statement I'd expect from a troll just trying to rile people up. At least the other overly critical posters around here state their cases with some basis in logic. I may not agree, but I understand where they're coming from and what they would do differently. And they've been around long enough that I KNOW they love the Bills.

 

(1) Sarcasm can ofter be viewed as being rude and offensive. This is clearly the case with regards to me. Your response back is "to get over it." My response back to you is character counts...

 

(2) My premise on not selecting Spiller was to trade the pick and get valuable draft picks while selecting someone like NT Dan Williams, Davis, Buluga, Morgan, Etc...I don't think it is hard to understand and I do think it has validity.

 

(3) I puposely didn't address all of you questions. I am not going to analyze all of the Bills draft choices and free agency pick ups. It is far too early to know how successful any of the selections and pick ups will be. Plus, many of those issues have been talked about over and over on this board. (ie) is Wang really a viable solution to our LT needs. How can one talk about solutons after the fact with no knowledge of the facts? Yet, you are expecting me to answer an impossible question.

 

(4) You talk about me judging and critiqing the Bills front office decisions. You state how it is wrong to do so. Nothing is further from the truth. That is exactly what fans do? That is the major function of these forums. As a fan, I have the right to critque and applaud my team! To an extent, aren't we all armchair QBs and on draft day and afterwards aren't we all armchair GMs? How can you try to take that away from me or anyone else? You are dead wrong on this issue...I suspect you were just trying to discredit me. Well, I think you failed miserbly.

 

(5) I think the troll comment is doing you a disservice. The troll comment doesn't mean everything you have said is crediable and everything I say isn't. The troll comment isn't an end all. You talk about my comment on Gailey after the Skins game. (I stand by the comment to this day.) Why haven't you talked about my positive comments after the Indy and Cinci game? You are distorting the facts. That doesn't fit into your troll theory. Go ahead and distort the facts all you want. I will correct you as needed.

 

(6) I suspect you will never be able to read my post with an open mind and put your personal differences aside. That is the difference between you and myself. The evidence is furthered by you implying/questioning my love for the Bills. IMHO, your behavior is simply inexcusable and your crediability is nill.

 

Have a great day.

Edited September 2, 2010 by mpl6876

[John Cocktosten]

To my way of thinking he also has the potential of losing 2, 5, 10 yards every time he touches the ball, it's not a reflection on what I think his abilities are ... it's a reflection on the rest of the teams abilities. To my way of thinking he has a greater real world potential to more often kill a drive (or at least make it more difficult) than he does of scoring every time he touches the ball.

JMO, I think that you're way over-thinking this.

 

It's not just about his ability it's about his versatility. Sure Marshawn and FJax can catch the ball but niether of them get upfield, setting up blocks the way CJ has shown. The way Chan used him in the Bengals game gives me as much hope as his speed and vision. The counter tray out of the wildcat, the trap out of shotgun and the zone read out of shotgun shows me that Chan wanted this guy and had a plan for him all along.

 

I would agree that he wouldn't be effective lining up in the "I" every play and running iso's, but that's not the way they are using him and he will never be a powerback. Does that mean he can't be used 60 snaps a game? Not at all, this isn't an power running offense.

 

I think we all have to remember that this isn't the old blah Bills offense, this is an offense that is suited and tailored to utilize speed and create mismatches...which is something the Bills haven't done in 20 years.

[Bill from NYC]

I think we all have to remember that this isn't the old blah Bills offense, this is an offense that is suited and tailored to utilize speed and create mismatches...which is something the Bills haven't done in 20 years.

 

The above is what makes the pick somewhat easier to swallow imo.

 

I openly disliked the pick. Imo, the Bills need to be strong up front. This is why I have been praising the rest of the draft. After watching Spiller, he looks better than I thought. Will this translate into wins? It might, but it very well might not.

 

If they really did view him as a superstar (and he plays as such), and go after OL, DE, and perhaps a QB next year, then drafting him will have been a work of genius. Counting on this organization to do so is a reach but as I said, Nix/Gailey DID address big guys on the defensive side, and deserve a chance based on this alone.

 

And btw, posters are jumping on people who didn't like the pick and asking them what direction they would have went. Fair enough. I would have traded down, and I think that doing so would have been quite possible. There was a trade soon after we picked. Staying at 9, I would have loved to see them get Graham from Michigan, because McClain was gone.

 

Do I know as much as Nix? No, not even a fraction. Do I think that message boards are a place to express opinions? Yes, I happen to think so.

[John Cocktosten]

Counting on this organization to do so is a reach

 

Do I know as much as Nix? No, not even a fraction. Do I think that message boards are a place to express opinions? Yes, I happen to think so.

I completely agree with both of these points. I've asked the question, "Since Polian left, when have the Bills been smarter than the rest of the NFL?" And as much as I like Spiller, I'm still not sold on other picks/moves.

 

The whole, "You must know more than Buddy" comments are so tired. Great, why have a message board?!? So we can all sing Kumbaya as we are boiling in hot water? The Pollyannas (Rico's term) are even worse than the "Negs" because they have history on their side.

 

Either way, we should all unite over a guy like CJ. We haven't had a true superstar since Bruce/Thurm/Kelly/Reed and that is one thing we can all sing Kumbaya about!

[NoSaint]

And which one of these RB's are great? My original point about picking CJ was that we had a very good duo. As good as any that you listed so why spend the pick....well after watching CJ and the way that Chan is using him, he's not any of those guys above, he looks like he has the makings of an all time great.

 

 

Oh, I definitely got the point, I was more addressing the idea that good teams somehow dont invest in running backs. It seems there is a myth that they are a dime a dozen and winners only draft them in late rounds as an afterthought. Just about every "good" team in this league has 1st round picks in the department, many have multiple early round picks.

 

If you look at the AFC and NFC championship games from last year --

 

NO -- Bush (2nd pick)

Vikings -- Peterson (7th overall)

Colts -- Addai and Brown (both first rounders)

Jets -- Shonn Green (3rd), Thomas Jones (FA, originally selcted first round - 7th overall)

 

I know that shanahan got by with late round picks and it seemed anybody could run in his system but realistically -- good running teams pick backs in the 1st, or atleast find ways to acquire 1st round talent.

 

If we had a choice between a guy like bulaga (insert any mid 1st round lineman), or a guy like chris johnson (ie possibly the most electric player in the entire draft) -- Its clear to me which will have more potential to help the team. Either one might bust still, but i definitely see the logic in getting a playmaker like that.

[Bill from NYC]

I completely agree with both of these points. I've asked the question, "Since Polian left, when have the Bills been smarter than the rest of the NFL?" And as much as I like Spiller, I'm still not sold on other picks/moves.

 

The whole, "You must know more than Buddy" comments are so tired. Great, why have a message board?!? So we can all sing Kumbaya as we are boiling in hot water? The Pollyannas (Rico's term) are even worse than the "Negs" because they have history on their side.

 

Either way, we should all unite over a guy like CJ. We haven't had a true superstar since Bruce/Thurm/Kelly/Reed and that is one thing we can all sing Kumbaya about!

 

Congrats on post 1,000.

 

I hope that Spiller stays healthy and can be a part of our offense for many productive years and again....once they build a foundation, this can be a good football team. One that is built for having an advantage while playing in the elements.

[RkFast]

One game....whooppee....get him his bust in Canton.....NOW!!!!!!!!!!

[MDH]

fair enough, but please look back at the draft and tell me which OL, QB, LB, DL or WR we could have taken that would make the immediate impact Spiller seems ready to make?

.

 

No position is going to pay immediate dividends like a RB - it's the easiest position to learn and the one where pure athleticism and instinct can be enough initially. That being said, you don't take a RB just because they'll make an immediate impact and other positions won't. You take players who will help your team the most over the next 7 years.

 

Will that be Spiller? I don't know but with Jackson and Lynch already back there it still doesn't seem like the wise pick. What was the stat I heard last week - the Bills ranked first in the league in percentage of runs over 4 yards? Yet we take a back with the 9th overall pick? Yeah, he has home run power but it still strikes me as an odd pick.

 

But at the end of the day if the guy retires 9 years from now being one of the all time great Bills players I'll have no complaints.

Edited September 2, 2010 by MDH

[Geno Smith's Arm]

No position is going to pay immediate dividends like a RB - it's the easiest position to learn and the one where pure athleticism and instinct can be enough initially. That being said, you don't take a RB just because they'll make an immediate impact and other positions won't. You take players who will help your team the most over the next 7 years.

 

Will that be Spiller? I don't know but with Jackson and Lynch already back there it still doesn't seem like the wise pick. What was the stat I heard last week - the Bills ranked first in the league in percentage of runs over 4 yards? Yet we take a back with the 9th overall pick? Yeah, he has home run power but it still strikes me as an odd pick.

 

But at the end of the day if the guy retires 9 years from now being one of the all time great Bills players I'll have no complaints.

 

I had hoped that they would either pick a QB, or a lineman, but you remark about home run power actual gives the pick some sense. With such a terrible offense, home runs might be the only way this team will be able to score. They haven't been surgically dismantling defenses with long drives. They have barely scored at all.

[tbonestake]

One of my favorites...what kind of name is Poon?

 

 

Commanche Indian:w00t:

[Leonidas]

My name is John Cocktosten and I was wrong about the CJ Spiller pick. It's not that I didn't like him as a player, I've said that I think he was the most exciting player in the draft. It was selecting a RB that bothered me (my rationale below). But after watching the Bengals game, I am here to say that I was completely wrong. He is Marshall Faulk/Gale Sayers, he's special beyond special and if he stays healthy, he will retire one of the great ones. So here's to Buddy Nix, your first pick as a Bills GM was BRILLIANT. May there be many more!

 

I remember the pick when I heard it that Thursday night (still angry about the draft format, but I digress). My dad calls me from Buffalo aghast and I think I had to talk him down off the roof. I always say draft for value when possible, filling in needs when you can. I didn't watch Spiller in college but the thought of taking a RB made me sick initially. We've drafted too many RB's high - McGahee 23rd(?) overall, Travis Henry in the 2nd, Lynch 12th overall - so I was initially against it. But he was widely believed to be BPA by far at that point, so I was on the fence about it once the pick was in (as opposed to the Aaron Maybin pick when I took a full beer and threw it against the wall and screamed out in primal rage). It would have been much worse to reach for a considerably less-talented player like Dan Williams or Bulaga at #9 overall, then paying him top money for his mediocrity. Props to you for owning up to your call though. If Maybin ever succeeds - and he won't - I will be the first to admit I was against it from well before draft day.

[Metal Man]

I say just sit back, pull up a chair or barstool, gather with friends or family, and enjoy every minute of the Buffalo Bills season, and stop worrying about defining who is or isnt a good pick before they are even eligible to rent their own car.

 

This ^^^^ seems like the best advice.

 

Also I don't understand why people complain about all the things we didn't address in the offseason. It is going to take more than one draft for Buddy and Chan to build their team so lets see how the OL and QBs look this season and at least give them another offseason before declaring anything a mistake.

[John Cocktosten]

(as opposed to the Aaron Maybin pick when I took a full beer and threw it against the wall and screamed out in primal rage).

 

If Maybin ever succeeds - and he won't - I will be the first to admit I was against it from well before draft day.

I think we just found you a new screen name!

 

I don't think that you'll ever have to start a post that says; My name is Leonidas/primal rage and I was wrong about the Aaron Maybin pick.

What I can't wait to see is CB97 start a post that says just that!

 

Commanche Indian

 

My other screen name choice was Dr. Rosenrosen

 

If you're a Fletch fan, this link will give you a good laugh!

http://members.fortunecity.com/thefletchpage/aliases.html

Edited September 2, 2010 by John Cocktosten

[Leonidas]

My other screen name choice was Dr. Rosenrosen

 

If you're a Fletch fan, this link will give you a good laugh!

http://members.fortunecity.com/thefletchpage/aliases.html

 

!@#$ing. Classic. The Fletch movies were the best comedies ever made with very, very few exceptions. Great reference.

 

I just sold my car on craigslist and the brakes were shot. As I said to the guy who bought it, "if you want to stop, you got to think ahead!"

 

Did you hear about the third Fletch movie they were going to do with Zach Banff (sp?) from Scrubs and the Scrubs director? It was supposed to be the prequel to the first Fletch movie. Had they turned Fletch into an hour and a half episode of Fletch I would have gone Primal Rage/Aaron Maybin all over again...

Edited September 2, 2010 by Leonidas

[eball]

(3) I puposely didn't address all of you questions. I am not going to analyze all of the Bills draft choices and free agency pick ups. It is far too early to know how successful any of the selections and pick ups will be. Plus, many of those issues have been talked about over and over on this board. (ie) is Wang really a viable solution to our LT needs. How can one talk about solutons after the fact with no knowledge of the facts? Yet, you are expecting me to answer an impossible question.

Excuse me...if you're not going to analyze them, how can you criticize them? And by the way, we don't need to assess whether or not those players will work out -- the whole point is that you criticized the Bills for NOT ADDRESSING NEEDS. Those needs were in fact addressed -- it's the end result we don't yet know.

 

(6) I suspect you will never be able to read my post with an open mind and put your personal differences aside. That is the difference between you and myself. The evidence is furthered by you implying/questioning my love for the Bills. IMHO, your behavior is simply inexcusable and your crediability is nill.

I start with an open mind; it becomes closed once a person has routinely exhibited a certain type of behavior. I'm sure I'll continue to peruse your posts along the way; if you give me any reason to change my opinion I'll let you know.

[John Cocktosten]

I just sold my car on craigslist and the brakes were shot. As I said to the guy who bought it, "if you want to stop, you got to think ahead!"

 

You should've told him that it needs ball bearings!

[Van_phelaN1]

Even though Spiller has been great so far and has given us Bills fans something to be excited about, the one lesson this franchise has taught me over the last 10 years is to wait and see before defining ANYTHING.

 

Remember after the 05 opener how much we loved JP's intensity and arm strength?

 

Remember how much we loved Trent after a couple good performance sin the 4th quarter?

 

Remember how amazing Willis McGahee was?

 

Travis Henry?

 

I say just sit back, pull up a chair or barstool, gather with friends or family, and enjoy every minute of the Buffalo Bills season, and stop worrying about defining who is or isnt a good pick before they are even eligible to rent their own car.

 

Amen My brother. Don't get me wrong, I am pumped for the season to start and I do think (hope) Spiller will be something to behold. In the long run however just watching the games with my girl and some good fellow fans and taking the emotional coaster ride is enough for me. That is why I love this team. The Bills are never going to be a team that get's a huge amount of national respect from the media (at least not without winning) but they will always be the team I love. If for no other reason than for the day the Superbowl win might come. Here's to circling some wagons.

[mpl6876]

Excuse me...if you're not going to analyze them, how can you criticize them? And by the way, we don't need to assess whether or not those players will work out -- the whole point is that you criticized the Bills for NOT ADDRESSING NEEDS. Those needs were in fact addressed -- it's the end result we don't yet know.

 

 

I start with an open mind; it becomes closed once a person has routinely exhibited a certain type of behavior. I'm sure I'll continue to peruse your posts along the way; if you give me any reason to change my opinion I'll let you know.

 

 

Your splitting hair and talking semantics. Of course the Bills drafted players and addressed needs. That's what a draft is...If you reread my post the whole theme of the post was regarding the Spiller pick. That pick clearly wasn't an address the team needs pick. Clearly, it was the BPA which has merit if the pick couldn't be traded. SO not addressing the needs was referring to that pick as well as IMHO picking Wang and Levi Brown. I have a hard time believing either pick will amount to anything substantial. You turned the argument into a macro viewpoint on the Bills whole draft. Once again, you are distorting the facts and I am here to correct you. I must say this causes me much pleasure. Also, in case you haven't noticed, people don't always reply to every single point of a person's post, comment, or question. Just like you did with my post. You choose to address two out of six points. Should I "hammer" you for not replying to all my points in my post?

 

With me you have never had an open mind. Your close minded attitude is loud and clear. I really could careless but don't try to take the high road now. Many posters have given me compliments on my change of behavior and solid logical posts. You seem to be stuck in the past and look to go on the offensive anytime you can. In fact, I would venture to say you go trolling looking to call someone a troll. Talk about hypocrisy...

 

Have a great day and lets hope the Bills can make a playoff appearance soon.

Edited September 2, 2010 by mpl6876

[Andre Speed]

when they picked Spiller i thought "ARE they NUTZ ??" i mean, he's not just a RB, which they had, but a SMALL RB, behind a highly suspect line. i would have jumped on some of the tradedown opportunities, and ended up with guys like Saffold, Veldheer, Campbell et. al.

 

so i looked up his highlights on Utube, which as we all know by now, are just about infinite. i compared what i saw with what Lynch showed in college. what stood out was one thing: vision. unlike ML, this little cat has that Thurman Thomas field vision that feels where everyone is, where they're gonna be, where he needs to go, and how he needs to get there. it also enables him to use his limited blocking to maximal effectiveness.

 

the main question, of course, was "how can a sub-200 lb back hold up against the giants in the NFL?" well, with his build, and short stature, he seems to do quite well. i'd hafta peg him somewhere between Chris Johnson, and Reggie Bush... but it seems like he's a lot closer to Johnson. he seems tough enough, and has not just top-end speed, but plenty of shiftiness, and unreal acceleration in every gear. so, i guess i'll have to live with all those big plays, even though they drafted him against my will. lol

 

~AS

Edited September 2, 2010 by Andre Speed

[BillsInMaine]

Every year I get excited about the Bills. Deep down I know they wont make the playoffs let alone a SB. This year started out the same as many others have. Excitment and inthusiasdum for our team. The one thing that is different from years past...I am still excited! After seeing the amazing skills Spiller has I am 100% excited. I think he was the perfect pick for us and I applause Buddy for drafting him! I think he has and will continue to make the Bills a better team. I give much credit to Mr. Gaily aswell, i know its preseason and we have seen Trent play like this before. I belive he has a new intrest in the game of football. The past cpl years he didnt look interested. He looks like he is having fun now. He looks like he could lead a team right now. I am excited about our offense for the first time since the 90's! We are on the rise in the NFL! GO BILLS!!!

 

P.S. Sorry if my spelling is bad...i have been drinking, that may be the reason for my intusiasum too!!