bartshan-83 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 The key word above is "team." Great defense, great ST's, great coaching, great offensive system. Brady wouldn't have sniffed the SB, much less won 2 of them and 2 MVP's, without the other parts. 148362[/snapback] But you need a leader for that team. Why is it that the Pats were 0-2 with the same team that won the SB before Brady stepped in? Look all things being equal, if Peyton Manning played for the Pats with the same salary as Brady does now, I think they would be winning SBs. But right now, Tom Brady is the captain of the best ship in the fleet. Having a great team can get you a ring without a great leader, but you can't build a dynasty around an average QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 But you need a leader for that team. Why is it that the Pats were 0-2 with the same team that won the SB before Brady stepped in? Yeah and the Patriots won the AFCCG that year with Bledsoe at the helm. Your point? Mine is that it's a TEAM game. Look all things being equal, if Peyton Manning played for the Pats with the same salary as Brady does now, I think they would be winning SBs. But right now, Tom Brady is the captain of the best ship in the fleet. Having a great team can get you a ring without a great leader, but you can't build a dynasty around an average QB. Who says? The Ravens could have built one arond Trent Dilfer, but decided to get cute and dump him in favor of Elvis "has left the NFL" Grbac. And anytime you have the best coaches, you ALWAYS have a chance to win. Now Brady is a good QB, but as I keep saying, 2002 proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that IF he doesn't have a top-rated defense, he can't even take them to the playoffs, and that year he led the NFL in TD's and the offense scored more points than in 2001 or 2003. And Brady next year will make as much as Manning did in 2002 and 2003, it's just that Manning has some high-priced offensive teammates as well whereas Brady's coaches can take anyone and plug them in and have success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Yeah and the Patriots won the AFCCG that year with Bledsoe at the helm. Your point? Mine is that it's a TEAM game. Who says? The Ravens could have built one arond Trent Dilfer, but decided to get cute and dump him in favor of Elvis "has left the NFL" Grbac. And anytime you have the best coaches, you ALWAYS have a chance to win. Now Brady is a good QB, but as I keep saying, 2002 proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that IF he doesn't have a top-rated defense, he can't even take them to the playoffs, and that year he led the NFL in TD's and the offense scored more points than in 2001 or 2003. And Brady next year will make as much as Manning did in 2002 and 2003, it's just that Manning has some high-priced offensive teammates as well whereas Brady's coaches can take anyone and plug them in and have success. 148390[/snapback] I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think Brady brings more to the table than just being a drone for a team of geniuses. I think he makes excellent decisions, keeps his poise with the best of them, and knows how to manage a game better than almost anyone in the league. But believe me, it hurts to argue with you because I can't stand singing his praises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think Brady brings more to the table than just being a drone for a team of geniuses. I think he makes excellent decisions, keeps his poise with the best of them, and knows how to manage a game better than almost anyone in the league. Brady is a part of the reason the Pats win. He is not the only, or even the major, reason they win. The Pats used to win with Bledsoe, despite inferior coaches and players than Brady has. It's just that in Bledsoe's only SB appearance, his ST's almost on their own lost the game and his defense couldn't generate a single turnover, much less score points for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wake up and smell the coffee people. Tom brady is a big time producing QB who is one of the best players, at any position, in this game right now. Not only is Tom Brady producing super bowls wins galore but he's posting passing stats that rank him up there with the best of the best QB's that have ever played this game! After 58 games started, Brady has posted the following key passing stats: 1153 completions 1881 attempts 61.3 completion % 12,845 yards 87 TD's 46 INT's These types of numbers, if projected over 10 years worth of playing time, will place Tom Brady up amongst the best QB's to ever play the game on just passing stats. And in what could very well be a couple more super bowl titles and we're talking easy 1st ballot hall of famer here. In fact, quickly calculating Brady's passing totals, if he were to play 160 games as Jim Kelly did, Brady's passing stats would be almost identical to those of the hall of famer Kelly. But Brady has super bowl wins, not to mention super bowl MVP's to his name. So, before anyone is critical of Brady and figures him to be a product of his teams system, consider the facts ..... only a select few QB's have put up passing stats that eclipses what Brady is on pace for, never mind super bowl titles, as Brady has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Wake up and smell the coffee people. Tom brady is a big time producing QB who is one of the best players, at any position, in this game right now. Not only is Tom Brady producing super bowls wins galore but he's posting passing stats that rank him up there with the best of the best QB's that have ever played this game! After 58 games started, Brady has posted the following key passing stats: 1153 completions 1881 attempts 61.3 completion % 12,845 yards 87 TD's 46 INT's These types of numbers, if projected over 10 years worth of playing time, will place Tom Brady up amongst the best QB's to ever play the game on just passing stats. And in what could very well be a couple more super bowl titles and we're talking easy 1st ballot hall of famer here. In fact, quickly calculating Brady's passing totals, if he were to play 160 games as Jim Kelly did, Brady's passing stats would be almost identical to those of the hall of famer Kelly. But Brady has super bowl wins, not to mention super bowl MVP's to his name. So, before anyone is critical of Brady and figures him to be a product of his teams system, consider the facts ..... only a select few QB's have put up passing stats that eclipses what Brady is on pace for, never mind super bowl titles, as Brady has. So too was Kurt Warner. Let me know when Brady gets even halfway there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 So too was Kurt Warner. Let me know when Brady gets even halfway there. 148467[/snapback] Halfway to where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Bills Fan Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I'd like to think we can win. I would imagine that Belichick would devise a plan that would stop Willis and force Bledsoe to beat them. That's what happened last time and we saw the result. I was surprised becasue the Pats run D is a little soft. The Bills have played much better since that game. If the game were in Buffalo, we'd have a chance. But, think how sweet it would be if we made the playoffs and knocked the Pats out? I got to get my head out of the clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman's Helmet Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 So too was Kurt Warner. Let me know when Brady gets even halfway there. 148467[/snapback] Kurt Warner is halfway to the # of Super Bowl WINS that Tom Brady has. Bart at ND has Bingo yet MBD is too stupid to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Kurt Warner is halfway to the # of Super Bowl WINS that Tom Brady has. Bart at ND has Bingo yet MBD is too stupid to figure it out. 148528[/snapback] Stupid is as stupid does. When you get it through your retarded skull that Brady is NOT the major reason the Pats win, you'll actually have a clue about the game of football. When I have SHOWN you that in 2002 WITHOUT a great defense the Pats missed the playoffs, and when Vinatieri has been the person to save the Pats' bacon time and time again in the playoffs, it's pretty obvious to those without their heads so far up Brady's ass that there's more to the Pats winning than just him. And that's not even taking into account the zebras, who DID propel the Pats to 2 SB's, like that fact or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Bart at ND has Bingo yet MBD is too stupid to figure it out. 148528[/snapback] You mean Doc Mangla? Embarassed because his Bills suck so much and the Pats excel so much, Doc disappeared from usenet and other places because all he said and argued for and against was totally and completely proven wrong. Now, he's in here knocking any and everything to do with the Pats because he's too embarassed to show his face back in the forum where everyone views him as a loser in the Jensen mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxboro Mike Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Brady's not having his best year, statistics be damned. I watch his games every week, so I'm comfortable in saying so. But I have the confidence that he'll be there when his team needs him. I agree with a lot of you when you bring up the 'team' argument. Of course Brady is better on the Patriots than if he was on, say, the 49ers. The same holds true for PeyTIN MANning in Indianapolis. But to say that Brady is not *a* reason that the Pats win is foolish. The pieces of the Patriots fit better than the pieces of any other team right now, save for Pittsburgh. Brady is the guy that makes the team go and the one they lean on when they absolutely must make a play (see SBs 36 and 38) I had a quote for a long time on my sig from Rodney Harrison regarding Brady - he was nervous about winning the game until he was reminded that Tom Brady was on his team. Not many teams have that kind of confidence in their QB, I'd care to wager. Oh, and go back to the '01 Patriots, and look at the skill position guys on that team: RBs Antowain Smith, K. Faulk, JR Redmond; WRs Troy Brown, David Patten, Charles Johnson and Fred Coleman; TEs Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Rutledge. Are they All-Pros?? Would PeyTIN won the SB with them? I say no. You guys rag Brady the same way that I rag Tin Manning, and that's fine - it's what rivals do to rivals. Most of the time, it's in good fun. At the end of the day, if you ask me whether I want TD records or championships, I'll take Brady and the championships over Manning and his stat books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 You mean Doc Mangla? Embarassed because his Bills suck so much and the Pats excel so much, Doc disappeared from usenet and other places because all he said and argued for and against was totally and completely proven wrong. Now, he's in here knocking any and everything to do with the Pats because he's too embarassed to show his face back in the forum where everyone views him as a loser in the Jensen mold. 148550[/snapback] MadBuffaloDisease = Doc Mangla??? I didn't know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 But to say that Brady is not *a* reason that the Pats win is foolish. I never once said that. I said he's a good QB and part of the reason they win. But he's not the major reason they win. I think it's fairly obvious that the Pats have the best coaches in the NFL, and when you have that, you always have a chance. They also have a great defense, excellent ST's, and have had a serviceable running game prior to this year, and a great one this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 MadBuffaloDisease = Doc Mangla??? I didn't know that! 148701[/snapback] I thought everyone knew that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I thought everyone knew that? 148706[/snapback] You coward. You're worse than Jensen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 You coward. You're worse than Jensen. 148767[/snapback] I miss Mike Wilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I guess I should have put :sarcasm: in there. And the irony of a "guest" calling someone who they think is someone else a "coward" is just TOO funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I guess I should have put :sarcasm: in there. And the irony of a "guest" calling someone who they think is someone else a "coward" is just TOO funny. 148827[/snapback] I'm not hiding like you are, Doc. I am unable to register for an account in here, or anywhere for that matter. That's why I am a guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 I'm not hiding like you are, Doc. I am unable to register for an account in here, or anywhere for that matter. That's why I am a guest. 148831[/snapback] Whatever. I am "Doc" and you are unable to register. How convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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