Sanchez is so bad

[Dr. K]

I don't know, guys. I'm of the camp that if you can't measure it, then it probably ain't real.

 

Let's put it this way--you can go for a while saying, as Kelly does, that Sanchez (or anyone else) has great talent even though it doesn't show up in his stats. But after a while, if the stats don't show it, I don't think it's there. If he doesn't play any better than he has already, in a pretty good situation, then I think he's not very good. If he has another season of 12 TDs and 20 ints, then I can't see any excuse for calling him a good QB.

[disco]

I should have said "only" using stats. Plus, there are a lot of players with decent or good stats who suck, and there are players with crappy stats who are damn good.

 

I should also say that I hate Dirty Sanchez. I am not sticking up for him because I like him. I hated him in college and hate him more now. I hope he gets in a car accident on the way to the stadium. And even though I saw almost all the Jets games last year, he was terrible in most of them. He really was. But he showed a real talent to me, the way Roth;isberger did in his rookie season, making just enough good and great throws and play to make you know he is really good. And I unfortunately think he's going to be very good. It's possible that his coolguyitis and playing in NYC with all the pressure and media and hype and Rex Ryan and nonsense will prevent his ascension.

 

I sure hope so.

 

Ok fair enough, stats definitely don't tell the whole story. In fact, that probably is particularly true for Edwards who seems to intentionally inflate his completion % through the endless checkdowns.

 

haha, alright your hate for him is probably deeper than mine. My problem with him mostly has to do with the hype he receives as a result of the Jets' success last year. I think people who don't actually watch much football tend to give him credit where he really didn't deserve it. If you've been watching Hard Knocks...I'm also shocked at how he pouts when he does poorly. It doesn't seem to be the kind of mentality that leads to long term success.

 

If you look at Stafford and Sanchez last year, their stats are similar. Sanchez 12TDs/20INTs/63 Rating - Stafford 13TDs/20INTs/61 ratting. However, watching them both play - Stafford showed so much more to me than Sanchez did. I mean, who will forget Stafford against the Browns? He hid from team doctors with a separated shoulder to lead a fourth quarter comeback culminating with a TD pass in the last second...his fifth of the game. Sure, it was against the lowly Browns. Of course I remember Sanchez playing the lowly Bills, who lost to the Browns...and the only 5 he came up with was INTs.

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't know, guys. I'm of the camp that if you can't measure it, then it probably ain't real.

 

Let's put it this way--you can go for a while saying, as Kelly does, that Sanchez (or anyone else) has great talent even though it doesn't show up in his stats. But after a while, if the stats don't show it, I don't think it's there. If he doesn't play any better than he has already, in a pretty good situation, then I think he's not very good. If he has another season of 12 TDs and 20 ints, then I can't see any excuse for calling him a good QB.

When I watch other guys, like Trent, put up similar stats but not show all the stuff you need to do to play solid or special football in this league, you don't think they are good. Watching Sanchez, I hate to say I think he will be very good.

 

I'll answer your post and Disco's earlier question with the same example. His second game last year against the Pats. It was a tough defensive game. The Jets won 12-9 or something like that. Both teams beat the crap out of each other. But Sanchez made 2-3 great passes in that game when they needed him to, one for a TD and one for a two point conversion IIRC, that was the difference. If you look at the stats he might have had a crappy game. Probably threw for a buck fifty the whole game. Took a couple stupid sacks. But he makes plays and they won the game. It wasnt all him obviously, or half him, but that's what I want out of my QB. He was good in the first game, too, against the Texans. His first two games as a pro, both against pretty tough teams, both wins that he played a part in.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

That's a swaggerific post You might have a point though.

 

 

Thank you. I'm trying to be reasonable.

 

I've never had an opinion on the word "swagger," but in my opinion the two alternates you named sound much worse.

 

Okay. Let me spell it out for you. I used those 2 ridiculous words as parallels in ridiculoushood to "Swagger". They are all ridiculous. Confident works fine.

[Chilly]

When I watch other guys, like Trent, put up similar stats but not show all the stuff you need to do to play solid or special football in this league, you don't think they are good. Watching Sanchez, I hate to say I think he will be very good.

 

I'll answer your post and Disco's earlier question with the same example. His second game last year against the Pats. It was a tough defensive game. The Jets won 12-9 or something like that. Both teams beat the crap out of each other. But Sanchez made 2-3 great passes in that game when they needed him to, one for a TD and one for a two point conversion IIRC, that was the difference. If you look at the stats he might have had a crappy game. Probably threw for a buck fifty the whole game. Took a couple stupid sacks. But he makes plays and they won the game. It wasnt all him obviously, or half him, but that's what I want out of my QB. He was good in the first game, too, against the Texans. His first two games as a pro, both against pretty tough teams, both wins that he played a part in.

 

A QB who makes a lot of stupid plays, and a couple plays that make you think he's pretty good. He's the next.... Drew Bledsoe?

[disco]

He was good in the first game, too, against the Texans. His first two games as a pro, both against pretty tough teams, both wins that he played a part in.

 

Those were good enough games, I suppose...but I would be leery of early success. Sometimes it's a mirage and an effect of good coaching and lack of tape on the QB.

 

See: Rob Johnson.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ok fair enough, stats definitely don't tell the whole story. In fact, that probably is particularly true for Edwards who seems to intentionally inflate his completion % through the endless checkdowns.

 

haha, alright your hate for him is probably deeper than mine. My problem with him mostly has to do with the hype he receives as a result of the Jets' success last year. I think people who don't actually watch much football tend to give him credit where he really didn't deserve it. If you've been watching Hard Knocks...I'm also shocked at how he pouts when he does poorly. It doesn't seem to be the kind of mentality that leads to long term success.

 

If you look at Stafford and Sanchez last year, their stats are similar. Sanchez 12TDs/20INTs/63 Rating - Stafford 13TDs/20INTs/61 ratting. However, watching them both play - Stafford showed so much more to me than Sanchez did. I mean, who will forget Stafford against the Browns? He hid from team doctors with a separated shoulder to lead a fourth quarter comeback culminating with a TD pass in the last second...his fifth of the game. Sure, it was against the lowly Browns. Of course I remember Sanchez playing the lowly Bills, who lost to the Browns...and the only 5 he came up with was INTs.

I totally agree with that. I think Stafford is really good, and I would probably take him over Sanchez (meaning right now if given the choice I would take Stafford, but if you actually had the luxury of watching every single game film of both of them like a GM does, maybe something else would show, but i doubt it).

 

And I also agree that Sanchez is getting way too much hype and way too much credit for their success and wins. I don't think he had a great deal to do with it either, although there were a few games when he made a couple great throws to win the game (god, i hated watching that). My ball-washing is mostly due to seeing he can do everything. Not a lot of quarterbacks can. I'm very impressed by his play fakes and rollouts and throwing on the run stuff. He has a GREAT deep ball already. He sets up pretty quick and he moves well in the pocket. He just makes too many bone head plays and is careless with the ball. Some QB stuff is teachable, others are a lot harder. His carelessness can be corrected.

 

Those were good enough games, I suppose...but I would be leery of early success. Sometimes it's a mirage and an effect of good coaching and lack of tape on the QB.

 

See: Rob Johnson.

RJ's first game he started he was good but a harbinger of things to come (he got hurt). His second game (first as a Bill), he sucked ass AND got hurt. Bad example.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog

[mob16151]

What's with the constant LOL? The point is just because you're a Bills fan doesn't mean you're not allowed to evaluate other players. If you put Trent Edwards on the Jets last year, I think he has by far a better year than Sanchez. Sanchez has a 63 rating. He was truly TERRIBLE at times, and did NOT improve down the stretch.

 

In his first 8 games, he had 3 games with a 100 rating or higher - but averaged just a 74 QB rating.

In his last 8 games, he had 0 games with a 100 rating or higher and had a 56 QB average.

 

This was despite the Jets shutting him down in the second half of the year to try and limit mistakes. In the first 8, he was allowed 214 attempts. In the last 8, just 150 attempts.

 

He had games with a QB ratings of 8.3, 27, 37, and 49.

 

So you want to take him and put him in Buffalo? He was one of the worst QBs in the league last year behind one of the best offensive lines...and you think he'll do better in Buffalo?

 

LOL!

 

I believe this is what the kids nowadays call WTF??? PWN'd. (Or something like that)

[disco]

I'm very impressed by his play fakes and rollouts and throwing on the run stuff. He has a GREAT deep ball already. He sets up pretty quick and he moves well in the pocket. He just makes too many bone head plays and is careless with the ball. Some QB stuff is teachable, others are a lot harder. His carelessness can be corrected.

 

The funny thing is you could have written the above statement about...JP Losman. As much as we wanted him to, he never really did turn the corner. I suppose we will know soon. If this year's preseason is any type of predictor - Sanchez has a tough road ahead of him.

[Kelly the Dog]

The funny thing is you could have written the above statement about...JP Losman.

True. Good point. But he never really moved well in the pocket.

 

I'm still of the mind that we ruined Losman, and ruined Trent.

 

Of all the players in the league I would wonder about playing on the Bills, Aaron Rodgers is the biggest. The guy looks like one of the top 3-4 QBs in the league right now, and is still young. It's impossible to say, but if he got the Losman treatment, he may well be a #3 on the Seahawks now. It's possible that he was so much better that he would have endured but while I think he is a lot better, I'm not sure he could have endured. he would have sucked, that's almost for sure, with this team, line, coaching, defense, etc. And he may not have ever recovered.

[Chalkie Gerzowski]

Kevin Kolb looked like garbage out there tonight.

[Pilsner]

True. Good point. But he never really moved well in the pocket.

 

I'm still of the mind that we ruined Losman, and ruined Trent.

 

Of all the players in the league I would wonder about playing on the Bills, Aaron Rodgers is the biggest. The guy looks like one of the top 3-4 QBs in the league right now, and is still young. It's impossible to say, but if he got the Losman treatment, he may well be a #3 on the Seahawks now. It's possible that he was so much better that he would have endured but while I think he is a lot better, I'm not sure he could have endured. he would have sucked, that's almost for sure, with this team, line, coaching, defense, etc. And he may not have ever recovered.

 

Aaron Rodgers seems to be turning out to be from a rare breed. He's tough and also what impresses me most, he can adapt, adjust and make the solid throws as he sees his 0-line falling appart in front of him. This dude is a baller. Never would have guessed being groomed by Jeff Tedford at Cal. Out of any QB in the league, Rodgers is one who could do the most with our inexperienced O-line, and make the throws that count, and live long enough thru the season to tell the tale.

[Fixxxer]

I often refrain to totalliy blast Sanchez because I believe he looked somewhat "poised" in playoff games, most notably against the Colts, but then again, I can't forget that he looked JP awful against us, turning the ball over 5 times in a game that had no business going to OT if we had a somewhat decent offense. We should have beat the Jets that day by at least 2 TDs.

 

Sanchez has talent but I don't see greatness in his future.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Luisma

[disco]

True. Good point. But he never really moved well in the pocket.

 

I'm still of the mind that we ruined Losman, and ruined Trent.

 

Of all the players in the league I would wonder about playing on the Bills, Aaron Rodgers is the biggest. The guy looks like one of the top 3-4 QBs in the league right now, and is still young. It's impossible to say, but if he got the Losman treatment, he may well be a #3 on the Seahawks now. It's possible that he was so much better that he would have endured but while I think he is a lot better, I'm not sure he could have endured. he would have sucked, that's almost for sure, with this team, line, coaching, defense, etc. And he may not have ever recovered.

 

Actually I think Rodgers would have been fine here, and I like to use him to dispel Oline requirements. GB's offensive line is something terrible. He was sacked 50 times last year. FIFTY! 34 the year before that - the only two years he's been a starter. Yet, despite damn near 3 sacks a game, he's still a top tier. That's pretty impressive.

 

He's an interesting case for bringing a guy up slowly. I wonder though if Rodgers would have been as effective if he'd started earlier in his career. Did the years waiting for Favre really help? Or is he just that talented?

 

That's the one that bothers me the most. If we really wanted Rodgers, we could have had him. sigh.

[Pilsner]

Actually I think Rodgers would have been fine here, and I like to use him to dispel Oline requirements. GB's offensive line is something terrible. He was sacked 50 times last year. FIFTY! 34 the year before that - the only two years he's been a starter. Yet, despite damn near 3 sacks a game, he's still a top tier. That's pretty impressive.

 

He's an interesting case for bringing a guy up slowly. I wonder though if Rodgers would have been as effective if he'd started earlier in his career. Did the years waiting for Favre really help? Or is he just that talented?

 

That's the one that bothers me the most. If we really wanted Rodgers, we could have had him. sigh.

 

 

We could have had him, but we might have started him right away. That's what worries me. Perhaps grooming him a few years did him well. We'll never know. Maybe he would have succeeded being thrown into the fire right away. With some players u really can never tell.

[Kelly the Dog]

Aaron Rodgers seems to be turning out to be from a rare breed. He's tough and also what impresses me most, he can adapt, adjust and make the solid throws as he sees his 0-line falling appart in front of him. This dude is a baller. Never would have guessed being groomed by Jeff Tedford at Cal. Out of any QB in the league, Rodgers is one who could do the most with our inexperienced O-line, and make the throws that count, and live long enough thru the season to tell the tale.

He does that stuff now. He's had five years or so. If we put him in there and fed him to the wolves like we did Losman in year two, I think he would have got crushed and played terrible.

[Captain Hindsight]

Rex Grossman...

[Pilsner]

Rex Grossman...

 

Kyle Orton The one guy who reminds me of Jim Kelly.

[disco]

He does that stuff now. He's had five years or so. If we put him in there and fed him to the wolves like we did Losman in year two, I think he would have got crushed and played terrible.

 

Speaking of feeding the wolves, I forgot - there was clearly a memorable Mark Sanchez play last year:

 

[Pilsner]

Speaking of feeding the wolves, I forgot - there was clearly a memorable Mark Sanchez play last year:

 

youtube.com/watch?v=tUHYAMAbxMA

 

 

Well he sure is a hot dog, in the sense he likes the lime light.