HARCO186 Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 I would disagree, a team can still be horrid pass blocking while being 1/2 way decent at run blocking as was last seasons Bills. Whats a 1000 yards out of a 16 game season anyway, 62.5 yards a game... big woop. Fred Jackson got most of those yards on his own after first contact IMO. Last years tackles folded like wet cardboard when it counted most and I don't see much improvement at this point. Just wait until these guys need to play 60 minutes and then watch what they do in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line and the team needs to make a 3rd and long. Yes the tackles did fold, but how did they fold. They were soft and defenses schemed for them. Teams would lick their chops most likely believing they could get some decent stats because the O-line was soft, not ready to handle 16 games (well 8 games because most were injured). This year alone they admitted that focuse is driven on fundamentals. Back to basics approach, will do wonders. People often scratch their heads when a new staff comes in and takes a decent team and makes them great, or a soft team and makes them tough. This is my point. We don't have a bad line like most people see or say. I truly believe we had a line that got misplacent and lost their way bit. How many of us really look at film and take position by position and see what is wrong and see what is missing. My point is that I feel Chan sees the O-line as needing fundamentals and basics. The best lineman are not the strongest or biggest, but have the best techniques for what the coach has in their system. Maybe last year it was so basic the lineman were told block head on, left or right, that's it. Chan might have this line doing stunts that help. Who knows but time. That is what I'm saying. We don't have the smallest line, nor the biggest, but really feel we don't have the worst either.
billrooter Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 And then we will let them all walk because we cannot pay all of them at the same time. Event at the end of this year, we may have significant pay roll issues. Assuming Gailey works his magic on Edwards, and the defense under Whitner and Poz go on to become very solid, then we would need to have new contracts for these three players next season. Add Roscoe Parrish to the mix, if all indications that he will be our #2 is true. That would then soon be followed up by ponying money for McKelvin, Levitre, Lee Evans. I hope the Bills do well and also retain their best players and continue to dabble in the FA to get mid-level players like the Steelers do. Wow so Gailey saying he (Parrish) will be more involved and Roscoe saying he's excited you translate into him being our #2? Did i miss an article or something, Parrish doesn't have the talent or build to be a #2, he is going to be our #3 if that, a nice change of pace guy to try an create a big play (slot receiver). Where were the indications?
Kkspike Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 We need a panos, crafts, fina and then were ready to roll.
K-9 Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 Thanks to the OP for bringing back some great memories of our OL from the late 80s. I'll never forget that from the time Ballard was drafted in the 11th round in '87 until his first start in '89, he was joined at the hip with Jim Ringo and the two would just walk up and down the sidelines every game with Ringo just coaching the hell out of him. Haven't seen that since. That line of Wolford, Richter, Hull, Davis, and Ballard is one of the greatest of all time. I'd like to believe we're on our way but we have a long ways to go before our OL is that good again. I mean, that was a once in a lifetime group. We'd do well just to come close. GO BILLS!!!
Pilsner Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 Thanks to the OP for bringing back some great memories of our OL from the late 80s. I'll never forget that from the time Ballard was drafted in the 11th round in '87 until his first start in '89, he was joined at the hip with Jim Ringo and the two would just walk up and down the sidelines every game with Ringo just coaching the hell out of him. Haven't seen that since. That line of Wolford, Richter, Hull, Davis, and Ballard is one of the greatest of all time. I'd like to believe we're on our way but we have a long ways to go before our OL is that good again. I mean, that was a once in a lifetime group. We'd do well just to come close. GO BILLS!!! Wolford, Ritcher, Hull, Davis, Ballard. Man what a Line. Bell, Levitre, Wood, Calloway, Meredith. You never know. Possibly the very beginning of something special. Add in another draft or two of linemen and we could have the recipe for a monstrous line someday.
ganesh Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 Why do you believe they will have payroll issues after this season? Where do you get that from? Nix has already talked about their method of operation. Build through the draft. Obtain low cost FA's to fill specific holes and pay their own players that have done well for the team and continue to build around them. So far Buddy has done everything he said he will do. I don't see paying upcoming FA Bills being any different if their play merits it. What I meant was that it is going to hurt the Bills in their inability to pay for lot of their own talent. If Edwards, Poz and Whitner have great seasons (a big IF), then the Bills are going to be hard pressed to come up with about 50-60M dollars in guaranteed money for the next business season. They will be in the same position the season beyond when they would have to take care of Lynch, McKelvin, and Lee Evans. For the smallest market team, if they have the big success this season in terms of Wins and Losses, it is going to be almost impossible for this team to pay out 100M in guaranteed money in the next two years (for their own players). Wow so Gailey saying he (Parrish) will be more involved and Roscoe saying he's excited you translate into him being our #2? Did i miss an article or something, Parrish doesn't have the talent or build to be a #2, he is going to be our #3 if that, a nice change of pace guy to try an create a big play (slot receiver). Where were the indications? What I really meant is that if Parrish plays the slot and has good success, then he will be the #2 go to WR on this team after Lee Evans. The #2 did not mean a positional ranking.
Merle Haggard Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 Our OL is considered the worst in the league for good reason. I'm sick of the "just wait until how great our players develope over time" mentality. Our QB and OL situation is a joke - the fact that it was ignored this offseason is a downright crime.
Pilsner Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) Our OL is considered the worst in the league for good reason. I'm sick of the "just wait until how great our players develope over time" mentality. Our QB and OL situation is a joke - the fact that it was ignored this offseason is a downright crime. I want our O-line to have better talent too. But if we had spent more high draft picks on the 0-line then i'm sure there would be a good number of posters saying wtf we ignored upgrading the D. Our run D would leak like a sieve. Our FO was going for the best value possible imo with a slight bias towards the D. Edited August 28, 2010 by Pilsner
SoulMan Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 (edited) Could be, but draft or FA an LT next year. Also, should have kept Incognito.... Edited August 28, 2010 by SoulMan
Pilsner Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 Could be, but draft or FA an LT next year. Also, should have kept Incognito.... With the right meds maybe incognito would have worked out for us, if he ever showed his presence.
billrooter Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 What I really meant is that if Parrish plays the slot and has good success, then he will be the #2 go to WR on this team after Lee Evans. The #2 did not mean a positional ranking. Ok got ya bud, if he does end up being the #2 go to guy, i feel that would be a significant improvement for buffalo in terms or passing production and would be fun to see!
Bob in STL Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 I remember the darkest period in this franchises history very well 1984, 1985 and in 1986 the light began to flicker on.. I think this year will resemble 1986 and 1987, if only we had a young Jim Kelly. However what we do have is a much milgned O-line that is very young. This is very similar to 1986 and 1987. We had a very strong interior line that was young in 1986. It was Kent Hull at Center (he was an NFL rookie although he played in the usfl). The Guards were Jim Ritcher a 6yr vet but I would say Wood is his equal and Will Wolford a Rookie with a huge upside similar to Leivtre although Leivtre has that extra year. The tackles were definitely the weak spot in 1986 as they are now. Ken Jones a 10 year veteran was at left tackle. He was on the downside of a career that he started as a DE. He did play with Electric company but he was at the stop gap capcity by 1986. I think that Bell has a much better upside than Jones did. That is why Wolford was moved to LT in 1987. As the most talented lineman he was moved. But his inexperience lead to mistakes that year much like Bell. The two places that this line had the current line were RT and Center. Hangartner is not and never will be Kent Hull!! Joe Devlin even on the downside was better than Cornell Green/J. Meredith but even if those positions hold their own this line is beginning to look solid. There are great similarities in the building process much like 1986/1987. Building through the draft with young athletic talent. In 1987 we acquired Tim Vogler and moved him to RG and even though this was a strike year the line play improved over the duration of the season. Then in 1988 after two seasons of growth this young talented O-line began to gel and would carry the team through the Super Bowl era with a couple changes here and there from year to year. In 1989 we drafted Howard Ballard and shifted Joe Devlin to Guard. I think this was part of what contributed to the "bickering Bills". Ballard was a turnstile at RT in his first year and Kelly called him out weekly but he got better. I think that this is where we are at and now and this is the formula that is being implemented. This line will be very good just give them a little time! I have a good feeling that our offense is going to turn the corner on last decades abysmal performances and the o-line will be the reason. Well you named about 7 excellent linemen from the good old days and today we have 3 that are a work-in-progress and a bunch of retreads. It doesn't cost anything to be hopeful. I don't know why you think Bell has more upside than Ken Jones had? If he is simply just as good then I am happy. Wolford was drafted in the first round by Polian to be the LT. His first year he played at guard for grooming, a luxury our neglected OL does not have.
Lenigmusx Posted August 28, 2010 Author Posted August 28, 2010 Well you named about 7 excellent linemen from the good old days and today we have 3 that are a work-in-progress and a bunch of retreads. It doesn't cost anything to be hopeful. I don't know why you think Bell has more upside than Ken Jones had? If he is simply just as good then I am happy. Wolford was drafted in the first round by Polian to be the LT. His first year he played at guard for grooming, a luxury our neglected OL does not have. My point was Jones was a converted DE who was at the end of an average career. I think Bell is on his way up and can play at least that well. Anyway, his physical gifts would indicate he has more upside. Does that help qualify my original statement a little?
Bob in STL Posted August 29, 2010 Posted August 29, 2010 My point was Jones was a converted DE who was at the end of an average career. I think Bell is on his way up and can play at least that well. Anyway, his physical gifts would indicate he has more upside. Does that help qualify my original statement a little? Sure does. I hope your right.
Big Turk Posted August 29, 2010 Posted August 29, 2010 Wake up our Oline is not what will lead us into relevance unless we get an infusion of talent and depth. The Oline will be fine. Tired of hearing about it. Rodgers in GB and Roethlesberger in Pittsburgh got sacked as much as Edwards or more and had great seasons. Good QB's will be god no matter how bad the line is.
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