Sully is at it again but I find it hard to argue this time.

[Kkspike]

Jerry is a plug. I saw him at the tpc at Brighton he can't hit a golf ball to save his life. If you threw him a pass it would go between his hands and break his glasses.I love sport writters who talk smack but have zero athletic ablility.my favorite is buffalo writter Rodney m. Back in the 90s he used to act like he played in the oline.

[shoretalk]

Jerry should watch some other teams in pre-season.

 

PTR

He might not watch the Bills because after all isn't he part of the GR list making team?

[SDS]

Jerry is a plug. I saw him at the tpc at Brighton he can't hit a golf ball to save his life. If you threw him a pass it would go between his hands and break his glasses.I love sport writters who talk smack but have zero athletic ablility.my favorite is buffalo writter Rodney m. Back in the 90s he used to act like he played in the oline.

 

Playing the game certainly offers you a special insight that would be hard to get anywhere else. Given that, I don't believe for one minute you have to have been a player or have any athletic ability at all to watch, listen, analyze, and write well.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

All that beind said, if he says our LBs suck, I'll take his back here. Poz is overrated and the rest as miscast and castoffs. Look, a LB is someone who makes an impact the first day he steps on the field. It's not a position where you need to grow and learn in the NFL. You have it or you don't. Great ones are impact players immediately. We don't have one. You can't look at them singularly as a group. They have to be measured in context with the rest of the NFl, both as a group and as individuals and both ways, they don't stack up. I see it as a weakness, not an asset.

 

Jerry Sullivan is correct in his assessment that in a 3-4 defense your LBs have to be able to make plays. The players we currently have fall in the category of being average backers. As it stands there are no playmakers within the LB corps.

 

You can't address all of your needs in one offseason. But somewhere down the line better players will be added to buttress the defense. If you can bring in some stop gap players to help with the defense, as they did, you do it to stay competitive.

 

 

I played linebacker and have coached linebackers (high school), so I understand where your coming from, but still...If you move a guy who has always put his hand on the ground, and try to stand him up, there IS going to be somewhat of a learning curve. Not to mention, it is in a different scheme, or in Danny Batten's, Arthur Moats', and to an extent Maybin's case, a whole new and much faster league. I also think if Poz can stay healthy, he CAN be a solid MLB...He has had nobody in front of him or around him.

 

I believe THERE ARE SOME, A FEW playmakers on this defense. We will find them this year and be able to build off of that, and cut the dead weight next year...year TWO of our 3-4, which makes it much easier and better. I really think Ellis, Maybin, Moats and Batten can all be solid LB's for this team and the scheme we run. The guys like Kelsay, Davis, Torbor and Mitchell are all guys who are fill-in/stop-gap type players. In Davis and Torbor's case, they knew the system and could help teach the young guys. I think those were solid moves for this year. It is kind of like our D-Line, we had to fill it in with what we had.

 

It will take this year and next offseason to get it all together, but it will happen...and there ARE guys on this defense right now, who will step up and make plays to prove themselves. Just give them some time to adjust and gell.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I can't believe I'm about to do this ...

 

But ... has Sullivan been wrong in anything he's reporting on the Bills? This team has been below average for over a DECADE. A DECADE. We're fans, we don't know any better than to keep rooting for our team. Even when they're awful, which has been the case for the past decade.

 

Want to know why people get upset at Sully? Because his articles hit close to home. The truth always hurts, especially when people don't want to admit that it IS the truth.

 

This team has one of, if not the worst LB corps in the league. That's a fact. This team also has the league's worst WR corps (at the very least, the least experienced WR corps). We're also lacking any semblance of talent at OT, DE and QB. We also have a suspect GM, a meddling owner, and a recycled coach.

 

So you can say that he's just saying things to be controversial or to be a hater. But that's just not true. If he was reporting that this team is on it's way up, THAT would be a lie. This team is rebuilding (for the 3rd time in 10 years) and has a long ways to go before they are a relevant NFL franchise again.

 

Doesn't mean we as fans can't be optimistic, but to get upset at a journalist for reporting the current state of the franchise is just crazy.

Every Sully thread we have has the obligatory mention of Sully's "job" being like shooting fish in a barrel.

[JohninMinn.]

Poz and Maybin two Penn Staters who got to get it done and prove Jerry wrong.

[TC in St. Louis]

I don't believe that Sullivan knows all the linebacker combos in the league. I live in St. Louis, and other than Laurinaitis, I don't know one linebacker on this team. I think that our guys will do the job.

 

I think Sullivan is a moron when I read articles like this.

 

How did this team go from 6-10 to the worst team in the league? It's insane. Had they beaten New England, with an 11 point lead, 2 minutes left, they would've won 10 games last year. The entire season fell to pieces when our KR fumbled the kickoff.

[Malazan]

I don't believe that Sullivan knows all the linebacker combos in the league. I live in St. Louis, and other than Laurinaitis, I don't know one linebacker on this team. I think that our guys will do the job.

 

I don't think Sullivan could name another linebacker corps outside of the Bills (and I have my doubts he could do that) without looking it up.

 

He doesn't watch other teams in the pre-season, but know the Bills have the worst linebackers? Great reporting job. Nothing like objective.

 

Bottom line is that Buddy was kinda sorta mean to him so he's going to hate until his head explodes.

Edited August 26, 2010 by jeremy2020

[The Big Cat]

Oh. Sully's being hard to argue with again. Do his assertions say it all this time?

[Thurman#1]

says Bills have worst LB corp in football.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article171434.ece

 

 

 

Actually, he didn't say that. Man, I sometimes think the folks on the message boards are the worst paraphrasers in the English language world. Look again, he says "the Bills might have the worst linebacking corps in the league." "Might have" is different from what you said.

 

When I saw your thread, I thought "Hmm, 32nd, that might be a bit harsh, but the bottom five, yeah, absolutely," and now by checking the source I learn that what Jerry said was closer to what I thought than what you said.

 

Pretty reasonable column, IMHO, particularly what the OP noted about watching preseason games.

 

LBs are a very overrated part of the defense anyways. They are dependent on the defensive line in front of them. Pitt also let's theirs LBs walk when they get too pricey. Yet, the lock up players like Aaron Smith & Casey Hampton.

 

How Williams, Edwards, Troup, & Stroud play will have a huge effect on our LBs.

 

 

Sure, the DL's play will have a big effect on the offense's play, and yeah, Pittsburgh often lets their LBs go when they get too pricey.

 

That doesn't affect the observation that the Bills LBs are not good at all.

 

Pittsburgh can afford to do that because they always have somebody excellent behind them. It's not that they don't need good LBs. It's that for them LB is so important that they're drafting and developing good LBs even when they already have good LBs. In a 3 - 4 system like the Steelers and Bills now run, the LBs are crucial.

 

Look at Pitt's LBs. They're insanely good. Woodley, Farrior, Timmons and Harrison. That's three guys who could make the all-star team in any given year, and Timmons is also extremely solid.

 

The Bills LBs were no better last year so what's his point? We can't draft 50 players. We signed two FA LBs. You can't overhaul every position in one year. Sometimes you have to hope the players you have can be coached up.

 

PTR

 

 

 

His point is that that's going to hurt us this year. Simple as that. And he's right.

 

You're also right that we are likely to address that in the next year or two. But in the meantime, this year, our LBs are not good, and that's going to prevent us from being a good defense this year.

 

Andra Davis was VERY good last year on the Broncos, one of the very best run stuffers up the middle in the entire league, which is our single biggest problem on defense. No one knows how he is going to play this year, on the Bills, with different players in front of and beside him. If he is as good as last year, our LBs will not suck. If he's significantly worse, we may suck. To just blow off Davis as a cast-off is not right, IMO.

 

 

Three and a half sacks, 68 tackles and 24 assists? That's "VERY good last year"? That's "one of the very best run stuffers up the middle in the entire league"?

 

Davis didn't even lead the Broncos LBs in tackles last year. D.J. Williams, the other inside backer had 99 tackles and 22 assists. I mean, don't kid yourself.

 

There's a reason Davis signed a two-year $4.4 mill contract with the Bills, and the reason is that that was the best offer he got. If he were one of the best run stuffers in the league, teams would have been knocking his door down.

[nick in* england]

I don't have a problem with Sully's analysis. The 'backers have looked very suspect in pre-season, none of them have stood out at all. They really need to work in the next couple of games to develop that pass defence and to get the run fits right.

 

I do disagree that you have to have stars to work a 3-4, that's not right. But you do need players to execute the system right - and our guys can't do that yet.

 

On Poz - I'm always so torn about him. Very worried that he could be a mope. On the other hand, he might be a perfect fit for the 3-4... I dunno. He has this year to play his way into my good books.

[Thurman#1]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions as to who they like to consume or not. However, Sully without regard to whether you like the phrases he uses is pretty much a waste of time as someone who is fortunate to be paid to watch and comment on sports.

 

 

 

What you have there is an opinion, and one which numerous people on these boards disagree.

 

Exactly.

 

Jerry Sullivan is a hack writer who likes to yell 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre and then stands to wait to see the commotion that he caused.

 

He writes negative spin in a 1 newspaper town. He's the clown. The 'outcast'. The 'critic'.

 

Has anyone seen a consecutive string of Sullivan articles or comments about either the Bills or Sabres that has been positive?

 

And not that he should be writing about all sunshine and butterflies, either....but constantly begrudging teams while offering little in way of anything positive is just as bad.

 

 

 

Yeah, I have, back when the Bills were good. Lately, they've been bad for ten years. It shouldn't be surprising when people say bad things about them.

[ganesh]

Poz and Maybin two Penn Staters who got to get it done and prove Jerry wrong.

 

Meanwhile, Beason, Harris and Woodley are having great careers for their respective teams.

 

 

Pittsburgh can afford to do that because they always have somebody excellent behind them. It's not that they don't need good LBs. It's that for them LB is so important that they're drafting and developing good LBs even when they already have good LBs. In a 3 - 4 system like the Steelers and Bills now run, the LBs are crucial.

 

Look at Pitt's LBs. They're insanely good. Woodley, Farrior, Timmons and Harrison. That's three guys who could make the all-star team in any given year, and Timmons is also extremely solid.

 

 

The reason the steelers have a LB factory is because they play the same 3-4 defense year-in-year-out. Their personnel team knows exactly the type of players to get. THe bills on the other hand have a coordinator change every 2-3 years and each brings in his own philosophy from Wade Phillips, to Jerry Gray to Perry Fewell. Now we are moving to a 3-4 and all the draft picks that we had in the past 3 years were more suited for the cover-2. This will never allow us to make stars and also build the necessary depth, something the Steelers can do every year.

[Kelly the Dog]

Three and a half sacks, 68 tackles and 24 assists? That's "VERY good last year"? That's "one of the very best run stuffers up the middle in the entire league"?

 

Davis didn't even lead the Broncos LBs in tackles last year. D.J. Williams, the other inside backer had 99 tackles and 22 assists. I mean, don't kid yourself.

 

There's a reason Davis signed a two-year $4.4 mill contract with the Bills, and the reason is that that was the best offer he got. If he were one of the best run stuffers in the league, teams would have been knocking his door down.

He tackles guys right at or near the line of scrimmage right up there with the very best players in the league. That is a stat that isn't highly publicized but really matters, and that is why he is one of the better run stuffers in the league.

 

Last year, his tackles on run plays were made 2.4 yards per carry. That was 12th in the entire league. When they break the numbers down more and do advanced stats, it went down to 2.0 per carry, which was 5th in the league. A couple years ago on the Browns he was 3rd in the league in that stuff. The guy is a very good run stuffer, one of the best in the league. He's not a three down player and won't be asked to be.

[CosmicBills]

...

 

How did this team go from 6-10 to the worst team in the league? It's insane. Had they beaten New England, with an 11 point lead, 2 minutes left, they would've won 10 games last year. The entire season fell to pieces when our KR fumbled the kickoff.

... And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

That's what BAD teams do. They find ways to lose a game they have no business losing. Mediocre teams WIN that New England game. Good teams win it in a walk. Bad teams? They find a way to lose it. And make no mistake, the 2009 Bills were a very bad team. The 2010 Bills team might be even worse. You asked how? Let me show you ...

 

*Worse at WR

*Worse at OT

*Worse at LB

*Worse at TE

*Question Mark at Special Teams (too early to judge as their team isn't set)

*Same at DL (New scheme = learning curve, could make it worse)

*Same at QB (which amounts to being on the lower end of the NFL spectrum)

*Same at C

*Better at OG (though with much less depth this season)

*Better at RB (a spot they were already pretty damn good at)

*Better in the defensive secondary (again, a spot that was a strength last year)

*Much more difficult schedule in '10 than in '09

 

Prepare yourself. It's going to be a long year. They'll win some games they shouldn't (like always) and lose a bunch that they should win (like always). End of the day, this team does not have the talent at the key positions to win consistently in this league.

Edited August 26, 2010 by tgreg99

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What you have there is an opinion, and one which numerous people on these boards disagree.

Thurman, More people here agree that Sullivan is a mediocre writer.

 

Your position of support for Sullivan is clearly the minority opinion.

 

That needs to be pointed out in the wake of your post.

Yeah, I have, back when the Bills were good. Lately, they've been bad for ten years. It shouldn't be surprising when people say bad things about them.

The points with Sullivan are these:

 

Is he insightful? No. He's not a creative thinker. He doesn't make good analogies. He doesn't cross-pollinate. He's not multi-disciplinary. He doesn't bring original thoughts to the table. He does not raise the level of discussion.

 

Is he a good writer: I would say average for a newspaper guy in a medium market. He's alright.

 

Is he a good person: He's probably not a bad person. On the other hand, he's not very likeable. The indicators (what he writes about, how he writes) are not promising. A bit self-centered if you ask me. Thinks he's witty but he's not. That sort of thing.

 

JW on the other hand is a very likeable guy. Accessible, humble. Doesn't think he's a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Works hard.

 

Are there dozens of people on this board who could do his job better than he? Yes, undoubtedly. I can't remember the last piece he did where I said, "Wow, that was well researched" or "Wow, he interviewed 3-4 people for that piece." Sully looks to me like he's mailing it in. I see more effort put into some of these posts than I do in Sully's articles.

 

How is his temperament? He goes in whichever way the wind blows. I'm trying to remember his columns from when the Bills were 5-1 in 2008. Seems to me he gets giddy in the good and morose in the bad. Seems to me he typically overreacts. If someone can conclusively correct me, I'll be happy to change this opinion.

 

Is he a voice for the community…do many Bills fans feel comfortable that Sully's opinions, positive or negative, speak for them? No, very few.

 

What are his redeeming qualities? Well, for his supporters in this thread, I guess one quality is that he's been right about the Bills sucking for the last ten years…so I guess in that regard he's been accurate.

[Kelly the Dog]

... And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

That is just not true. She'd be a transsexual or a hermaphrodite, and either way, we really couldn't trust her about football.

 

The points with Sullivan are these:

 

Is he insightful? No. He's not a creative thinker. He doesn't make good analogies. He doesn't cross-pollinate. He's not multi-disciplinary. He doesn't bring original thoughts to the table. He does not raise the level of discussion.

 

Is he a good writer: I would say average for a newspaper guy in a medium market. He's alright.

 

Is he a good person: He's probably not a bad person. On the other hand, he's not very likeable. The indicators (what he writes about, how he writes) are not promising. A bit self-centered if you ask me. Thinks he's witty but he's not. That sort of thing.

 

JW on the other hand is a very likeable guy. Accessible, humble. Doesn't think he's a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Works hard.

 

Are there dozens of people on this board who could do his job better than he? Yes, undoubtedly. I can't remember the last piece he did where I said, "Wow, that was well researched" or "Wow, he interviewed 3-4 people for that piece." Sully looks to me like he's mailing it in. I see more effort put into some of these posts than I do in Sully's articles.

 

How is his temperament? He goes in whichever way the wind blows. I'm trying to remember his columns from when the Bills were 5-1 in 2008. Seems to me he gets giddy in the good and morose in the bad. Seems to me he typically overreacts. If someone can conclusively correct me, I'll be happy to change this opinion.

 

Is he a voice for the community…do many Bills fans feel comfortable that Sully's opinions, positive or negative, speak for them? No, very few.

 

What are his redeeming qualities? Well, for his supporters in this thread, I guess one quality is that he's been right about the Bills sucking for the last ten years…so I guess in that regard he's been accurate.

That's actually all pretty accurate, and much better thought out and written than 99% of Sully articles.

[Peevo]

Sullivan is not paid to cover the team. That's Mark Gaughan and Allen Wilson's job. And no, I don't think you can get the same level of analysis on this board that you can through a learned writer because, simply, professional writing is hard. Active voicing, keeping it simple. It's not as easy as you'd think, and I'm not a journalism student. And let's be honest, not everybody on here has to follow the AP style guide to make their point, but I'd rather read something that Mark Gaughan wrote than "GoBillzz5708143omglolz" did. Sorry.

 

Sullivan is paid to write opinions. That's what a columnist does. He writes about the Bills and the Sabres. He also writes personal interest stories that I don't even read because I really don't care about the women's UB rowing coach who overcame tragedy and found success. Sorry, I really don't care.

 

It's not his fault the two pro teams in this town have been pretty bad to downright awful for almost 10 years running. There are honest questions to be made about both organizations' leadership/ownership structures. Why do we as fans gets so defensive about that?

 

WE don't own the teams, or run them, or decide on their players or coaches. It's not some personal attack at us, the fan, so why do so many get so angry? He's paid to write his opinion, and almost always, its a valid, informed, skeptical one.

 

Call him out when he's wrong about something, like I did referencing the 2007 draft as "the first post-Donahoe." That's incorrect. But it seems we take his negative columns about the Bills personally. I think that's really stupid. That is all.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Sullivan is not paid to cover the team. That's Mark Gaughan and Allen Wilson's job. And no, I don't think you can get the same level of analysis on this board that you can through a learned writer because, simply, professional writing is hard. Active voicing, keeping it simple. It's not as easy as you'd think, and I'm not a journalism student. And let's be honest, not everybody on here has to follow the AP style guide to make their point, but I'd rather read something that Mark Gaughan wrote than "GoBillzz5708143omglolz" did. Sorry.

 

Sullivan is paid to write opinions. That's what a columnist does. He writes about the Bills and the Sabres. He also writes personal interest stories that I don't even read because I really don't care about the women's UB rowing coach who overcame tragedy and found success. Sorry, I really don't care.

 

It's not his fault the two pro teams in this town have been pretty bad to downright awful for almost 10 years running. There are honest questions to be made about both organizations' leadership/ownership structures. Why do we as fans gets so defensive about that?

 

WE don't own the teams, or run them, or decide on their players or coaches. It's not some personal attack at us, the fan, so why do so many get so angry? He's paid to write his opinion, and almost always, its a valid, informed, skeptical one.

 

Call him out when he's wrong about something, like I did referencing the 2007 draft as "the first post-Donahoe." That's incorrect. But it seems we take his negative columns about the Bills personally. I think that's really stupid. That is all.

I don't take anything Sully writes, personally. In fact, now that I don't live in Bflo, I don't read his stuff unless it's posted on TwoBillsDrive.

 

Like I said above, I think the guy is an average talent. I also think his effort is average.

 

I've worked in the media myself. I am also a published author. I like to observe and comment on the abilities of other writers.

 

That is my perspective on Jerry Sullivan.

[bills in va]

What has Spikes ever proven at the NFL level?

What have ANY of our LB's proven at the NFL level?