Colt McCoy may get cut...

[Big Turk]

I didn't say we'd want McCoy. You're not understanding.

 

I think my point is clear.

 

If we lose Levi Brown, so what?

 

As a 7th round pick, players like him are a dime a dozen.

 

AND, most other teams and their fans are probably more interested in keeping their own quarterbacks than claiming someone else's on waivers. It's ridiculous to even worry about it, IMO.

 

How do you know that? That makes no sense. I'm sure St. Louis thought players like Kurt Warner were a dime a dozen when they picked him up from the local grocery store. Perhaps Kansas City thought Priest Holmes was a dime a dozen when they signed him as an undrafted free agent. Heck, maybe even New England thought Tom Brady was a dime a dozen player because he was picked in the 6th round. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance. Is Fred Jackson a dime a dozen player? He was an NFLE project and undrafted free agent. If you could judge all the players on your roster by just looking at where they were drafted, you would have it made...

[SDS]

How do you know that? That makes no sense. I'm sure St. Louis thought players like Kurt Warner were a dime a dozen when they picked him up from the local grocery store. Perhaps Kansas City thought Priest Holmes was a dime a dozen when they signed him as an undrafted free agent. Heck, maybe even New England thought Tom Brady was a dime a dozen player because he was picked in the 6th round. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance. Is Fred Jackson a dime a dozen player? He was an NFLE project and undrafted free agent. If you could judge all the players on your roster by just looking at where they were drafted, you would have it made...

 

Priest Holmes was a Raven before he was a Chief...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

This is how this story is relevant to Bills fans.

 

Many here are lamenting the possible loss of Levi Brown in the event that we waive him and he has to pass waivers to be put on the practice squad.

 

In truth, there are several teams just as heavily invested if not more, in their young rookie quarterbacks.

 

Sure we might lose Levi Brown…we might also gain McCoy or Lefevour, or someone else.

Why would we want to gain a guy who isn't able to even make it as a 3rd stringer the year he was drafted? You have to be REALLY, REALLY bad for a team to give up on you when they drafted you that same year...

That's the whole point...rookie QB's, especially ones that are drafted are usually given the benefit of the doubt multiple times. For them not to get that and get cut means they are beyond bad and the team feels they are hopeless...

I didn't say we'd want McCoy. You're not understanding.

 

I think my point is clear.

 

If we lose Levi Brown, so what?

 

As a 7th round pick, players like him are a dime a dozen.

 

AND, most other teams and their fans are probably more interested in keeping their own quarterbacks than claiming someone else's on waivers. It's ridiculous to even worry about it, IMO.

How do you know that? That makes no sense. I'm sure St. Louis thought players like Kurt Warner were a dime a dozen when they picked him up from the local grocery store. Perhaps Kansas City thought Priest Holmes was a dime a dozen when they signed him as an undrafted free agent. Heck, maybe even New England thought Tom Brady was a dime a dozen player because he was picked in the 6th round. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance. Is Fred Jackson a dime a dozen player? He was an NFLE project and undrafted free agent. If you could judge all the players on your roster by just looking at where they were drafted, you would have it made...

Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

 

I don't know future outcomes any more than you do.

 

Or any NFL teams either. No one can predict which 7th round pick will defy great odds to have a great career. Most of them don't do a damn thing however.

 

The Bills will put together a roster. There's a chance they might expose Levi Brown to waivers. It would be a calculated risk based on educated guesses.

 

If we lost him, it wouldn't be the end of the world. It might even be that we lose him and end up getting him back.

 

I guess this issue's a lot more important to you because I don't think exposing him is that major of a deal.

[Marv Levy]

Good info, thanks for the post. The problems these guys are having at the pro level demonstrates why none of the people on this board (myself included) work as pro scouts.

 

Absolutely!

[Albany,n.y.]

Found this story online browsing around some football news...

 

The Cleveland Plain Dealer lists rookie Colt McCoy as one player in need of a strong showing over the final two games to make the Browns' roster.

 

It's exceedingly rare for an NFL team to give up on a third-round pick after one preseason, and it's hard to imagine McCoy passing through waivers. Still, McCoy has been dreadful in exhibition action (5-of-12 for 25 yards, two interceptions) and camp scrimmages while Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace have shined.

 

No, I dont want us to pick him up if he is put on waivers, I dont think he would make it in Buffalo. LeFevour is in danger of being cut in Chi too...this all just further illustrates how underwhelming this past QB class was and how it makes more sense to see what our guys can do this year and look at a QB next year if they falter.

But, but but... It takes YEARS to figure out that a QB does or doesn't have it. HE JUST NEEDS MORE TIME! Look at the "mistake" that GB made deciding Brian Brohm wasn't good enough. Look at the "mistake" the Bills made not giving JP Losman more time-he's "haunting" us in Seattle as we speak!

 

We must get McCoy, he has to be better than what we have! He hasn't busted in a Bills uniform, has he?

 

Seriously, clubs CAN evaluate a QB early in his career. That's one reason I'm convinced that Brian Brohm is total trash & will never do anything in the NFL. Just because he isn't named Trent or Ryan, Bills fans give him a lot more credit than he deserves. I just re-watched the Bills-Indy game last night & my conclusion is Brohm is a worse version of Trent Edwards. He was throwing short passes & while Edwards was able to hit the long throw to Evans, any time Brohm tries to throw a longer pass, it doesn't get to the receiver. He's totally inaccurate and doesn't have the arm his fans think he has.

[GaryPinC]

Here's a new story about McCoy:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_wi.html

 

He's not going anywhere this year.

[Leonidas]

Found this story online browsing around some football news...

 

The Cleveland Plain Dealer lists rookie Colt McCoy as one player in need of a strong showing over the final two games to make the Browns' roster.

 

It's exceedingly rare for an NFL team to give up on a third-round pick after one preseason, and it's hard to imagine McCoy passing through waivers. Still, McCoy has been dreadful in exhibition action (5-of-12 for 25 yards, two interceptions) and camp scrimmages while Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace have shined.

 

No, I dont want us to pick him up if he is put on waivers, I dont think he would make it in Buffalo. LeFevour is in danger of being cut in Chi too...this all just further illustrates how underwhelming this past QB class was and how it makes more sense to see what our guys can do this year and look at a QB next year if they falter.

 

Great stuff, thanks for posting. Agree 100%.

 

I wish the best for Colt McCoy. The better he does, the less likely Cleveland picks a QB in the first round next year.

 

How do you know that? That makes no sense. I'm sure St. Louis thought players like Kurt Warner were a dime a dozen when they picked him up from the local grocery store. Perhaps Kansas City thought Priest Holmes was a dime a dozen when they signed him as an undrafted free agent. Heck, maybe even New England thought Tom Brady was a dime a dozen player because he was picked in the 6th round. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance. Is Fred Jackson a dime a dozen player? He was an NFLE project and undrafted free agent. If you could judge all the players on your roster by just looking at where they were drafted, you would have it made...

 

So we should hold onto every 7th round draft pick/undrafted free agent because he might turn into Kurt Warner or Tom Brady? Yeah, that makes so much sense. Better hold on to Levi then...he's looking more and more like Kurt Warner every day.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Leonidas

[Ramius]

I agree with everythign you say but the last sentence. Its no suprise to me that McCoy/Lefevour are struggling, Snead has already been cut, and that the top 3 are Bradford/Tebow/Clausen. It was fairly easy to see that happening. McCoy Im sure will be given the benifit of the doubt and I dont see him being cut.

 

Locker/Mallet/Pryor scare me. Pryor is a WR in this league if I am a scout - remember that fade rout he ran as a Frosh in the bowl game? He is a Calvin Johnson type athlete. Luck I hope and pray comes out. Ponder is in a make or break year but is not a top 10 guy. If Clausen can go in the second Ponder will too.

 

I am really hoping for a chance at Luck or a LT next year. Maybe even a OLB for our 34.

 

PS: I wonder how my late round Gem QB Jarret Brown is doing? He went undrafted but was picked up by the 49ers. Anyone seen him in PS action?

 

Ponder will go in round 1. Just because the "draftniks" aren't all over him doesn't mean that the NFL scouts aren't.

[Big Turk]

Great stuff, thanks for posting. Agree 100%.

 

I wish the best for Colt McCoy. The better he does, the less likely Cleveland picks a QB in the first round next year.

 

 

 

So we should hold onto every 7th round draft pick/undrafted free agent because he might turn into Kurt Warner or Tom Brady? Yeah, that makes so much sense. Better hold on to Levi then...he's looking more and more like Kurt Warner every day.

 

Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance

 

That doesn't sound anything like "Hold onto all 7th round draft picks", does it?

[Pete]

I never understood the hype of Colt McCoy and Jevon Snead. It seemed obvious to me that neither would ever make it in the NFL

[Orton's Arm]

I'm fine with the Spiller pick. Point is nothing is going to happen until they get an upper echelon QB here. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Last year wasn't the first draft that they needed a QB. Perhaps all this years QB's will suck. Perhaps next years will suck too, then this masterplan is back to square one. yes the Bills have improved, but it's always something like 7-9 back to 8-8, down to 4-12, up to 7-9, down to 6-10...... teams with these records are nowhere. The Bills are nowhere. Have been for 15 years.

 

Get a QB, whatever it takes. If they had traded their entire draft to Indy to select Peyton Manning do you think the team would have done worse then have. I know Manning is an exception, BVGIPYbfg[EQUWF-[9GHQWFVADEQWfwEFGERWdgv

Blah blah blah.

It's obvious the reason the Bills have sucked is because they don't have a QB. They still don't. Won't for awhile. Maybe not even before they leave Buffalo.

I'll begin by responding to your bolded statement. Peyton Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft. If you look at the Bills' draft picks from 1998 through 2006, and determine which ones are still with the team, you have the following:

 

Chris Kelsay (2nd round, 2003)

Terrence McGee (4th round, 2003)

Lee Evans (1st round, 2004)

Roscoe Parrish (2nd round, 2005)

Donte Whitner (1st round, 2006)

John McCargo (1st round, 2006)

Ashton Youboty (3rd round, 2006)

Kyle Williams (5th round, 2006)

Keith Ellison (6th round, 2006)

 

One could argue that over the next few years, Manning will be worth more than all the players on that list put together. That is largely because the Bills have been bad at drafting. It's also because some players drafted during that span (such as Schobel) contributed at a high level for a long time, and then retired. Other drafted players, like Nate Clements, were allowed to leave via free agency.

 

But the point remains that the value of a Manning-scale draft-day success story is stupendous, and is difficult to overstate. One of the reasons why some people (including me) wouldn't mind seeing the Bills go 1-15 for the 2010 season is because getting that first overall pick (as the Colts did for Manning) can be monumental in determining the direction of the franchise for the next ten or more years.

 

The objective with all this should be to find the right quarterback, and then to do whatever you have to do to get him on your roster. That might mean trading up (as TD unsuccessfully tried to do with Roethlisberger), it might mean passing up a franchise player at some other position (as Parcells should have done when he had to choose between Long and Ryan), and it might mean going 1-15 or 2-14.

 

A note on that last point: you obviously don't want your players playing to loose. Football is a tough sport, and playing to loose just breeds mental softness. It's hard to come back from that. But if the general manager decides to go 1-15 during his first year, there are things he can do to prevent the team from having the short-term stopgaps it would need to increase its win total. You wouldn't sign a Chad Pennington, for example, because a player like that will dramatically increase your win total in year 1 and maybe even year 2 of the rebuilding program; while doing nothing to help your team long-term. (Too close to retirement.)

 

Focusing your team's resources, with laser-like precision, on the right quarterback, requires a talented, disciplined, wise front office and scouting staff. The teams that tend to pick the best QBs de-emphasize physical traits, while emphasizing accuracy, ability to see the field/multiple reads quickly, and other mental traits. One quarterback in that category is Ponder. If I were the Bills, I'd make it my #1 goal to acquire him in the 2011 draft.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Edwards' Arm

[Hplarrm]

I'll begin by responding to your bolded statement. Peyton Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft. If you look at the Bills' draft picks from 1998 through 2006, and determine which ones are still with the team, you have the following:

 

Chris Kelsay (2nd round, 2003)

Terrence McGee (4th round, 2003)

Lee Evans (1st round, 2004)

Roscoe Parrish (2nd round, 2005)

Donte Whitner (1st round, 2006)

John McCargo (1st round, 2006)

Ashton Youboty (3rd round, 2006)

Kyle Williams (5th round, 2006)

Keith Ellison (6th round, 2006)

 

One could argue that over the next few years, Manning will be worth more than all the players on that list put together. That is largely because the Bills have been bad at drafting. It's also because some players drafted during that span (such as Schobel) contributed at a high level for a long time, and then retired. Other drafted players, like Nate Clements, were allowed to leave via free agency.

 

But the point remains that the value of a Manning-scale draft-day success story is stupendous, and is difficult to overstate. One of the reasons why some people (including me) wouldn't mind seeing the Bills go 1-15 for the 2010 season is because getting that first overall pick (as the Colts did for Manning) can be monumental in determining the direction of the franchise for the next ten or more years.

 

The objective with all this should be to find the right quarterback, and then to do whatever you have to do to get him on your roster. That might mean trading up (as TD unsuccessfully tried to do with Roethlisberger), it might mean passing up a franchise player at some other position (as Parcells should have done when he had to choose between Long and Ryan), and it might mean going 1-15 or 2-14.

 

A note on that last point: you obviously don't want your players playing to loose. Football is a tough sport, and playing to loose just breeds mental softness. It's hard to come back from that. But if the general manager decides to go 1-15 during his first year, there are things he can do to prevent the team from having the short-term stopgaps it would need to increase its win total. You wouldn't sign a Chad Pennington, for example, because a player like that will dramatically increase your win total in year 1 and maybe even year 2 of the rebuilding program; while doing nothing to help your team long-term. (Too close to retirement.)

 

Focusing your team's resources, with laser-like precision, on the right quarterback, requires a talented, disciplined, wise front office and scouting staff. The teams that tend to pick the best QBs de-emphasize physical traits, while emphasizing accuracy, ability to see the field/multiple reads quickly, and other mental traits. One quarterback in that category is Ponder. If I were the Bills, I'd make it my #1 goal to acquire him in the 2011 draft.

And this history along with the stats provided by PTR at the beginning of this thread are pretty strong reasons why you likely do not look to the 1st round of the draft for your franchise QB.

 

The simple fact is that the only examples of a team selecting a QB in the first round who then led the team which drafted him to an SB win are the actually fairly solitary examples of Manning and RoboQB.

 

One actually may fall for the thought that this is the way to go, but any thought shows that no one would mistake the Bills for the Pitts team where RoboQB proved to be the part that put this great team over the top. Also while this post waxes all over Manning being such a great choice, this view does ignore the reality that a far more accomplished version of using the draft to get your franchise QB was actually the selection of Tom Brady in the 6th.

 

EA u=is correct that the actual key is to find the RIGHT QB!

 

However in terms of the reality of what has actually happened, the right QB can be found not only with a high risk 1st round choice but with a lower risk 6th round pick like Brady,

 

Does a Brady happen once in a lifetime? You bet.

 

However does a Pwyton Manning also happen once in a lifetime? Yes on that as well.

 

In fact the relative comparison is that if you dedicate the first (and the premium QBs seem to get as well) to s Manning then you can also quite easily end up with Ryan Leaf. My sense is that the Brady pick not only produced a player better than Manning (no matter what adulation you heap on Manning simply count up the SB wins) but this is a great way to build a winner.

 

If we look to the distant past, why just last year NO found the right QB in FA. History is simply filled with teams winning the SB with 1st and other round drafted QBs like Dilfer or even two time failed reject Brad Johnson turning out to be the right QB.

 

In particular if you look at the Bills case, even though I agree that Locker looks like the real deal, my guess is that coming to the Buffalo Bills would likely be a kiss of death for him even if he is the real deal as fans here are rightly made impatient by the playoffless streak and the local media is more than happy to make some nickels ragging on whoever is the savior de jure at QB

 

Drafting a franchise QB in the first is simply unlikely to succeed strategy and not even necessary we have numerous real world examples with the right QB being found when the the team which drafted him gives up on him.

 

Drafting a QB in the first even if it works as well as Indy picking Manning we are talking about needing several years for him to develop into a QB capable of leading the team to the ultimate goal an SB win.

 

Even if we suck and get the 1st pick I hope we instead focus on building a winning team and NOT on simply putting us on a plan to win the SB in 2015 or 15 cause likely that is how long this strategy will take to win an SB.

[ganesh]

 

 

But the point remains that the value of a Manning-scale draft-day success story is stupendous, and is difficult to overstate.

 

But if the general manager decides to go 1-15 during his first year, there are things he can do to prevent the team from having the short-term stopgaps it would need to increase its win total..

 

There has been no other Peyton Manning like player picked #1 in the draft in the last 11 years.

 

If a GM decides to go 1-15 in his first year, he would be fired. Polian took a bad team and was given a chance to pick a Peyton Manning. The same way Bill Parcell arrived in Miami, when they had already gone 1-15 and was given the change to pick a Matt Ryan or Jake Long. They lucked out that they could get Long and Pennington fell in their lap late in the off season.

[Bill from NYC]

I'll begin by responding to your bolded statement. Peyton Manning was selected first overall in the 1998 draft.

 

Do you place any weight at all in the fact that immediately before the Colts got Manning, they drafted a pair of bookend OTs (Glenn and Meadows) in rounds 1 and 2?

[8-8 Forever?]

Found this story online browsing around some football news...

 

The Cleveland Plain Dealer lists rookie Colt McCoy as one player in need of a strong showing over the final two games to make the Browns' roster.

 

It's exceedingly rare for an NFL team to give up on a third-round pick after one preseason, and it's hard to imagine McCoy passing through waivers. Still, McCoy has been dreadful in exhibition action (5-of-12 for 25 yards, two interceptions) and camp scrimmages while Jake Delhomme and Seneca Wallace have shined.

 

No, I dont want us to pick him up if he is put on waivers, I dont think he would make it in Buffalo. LeFevour is in danger of being cut in Chi too...this all just further illustrates how underwhelming this past QB class was and how it makes more sense to see what our guys can do this year and look at a QB next year if they falter.

 

Great post. I guess Buddy and Chan knew what they were doing avoiding these clowns after all. Whew, the Bills finally did something right in the draft. Also, Chan is a scheme guy who would love to have but doesn't require pro bowl talent to score points. If the players execute his offense exactly the way he draws it up, they will move the ball simply based on Chan's play calling expertise. That is Chan's strength.

Edited August 27, 2010 by 8and8Forever

[tennesseeboy]

I think for better or worse we have the quarterbacks we are going with this season. Gailey seems to be planning a regular season strategy with Trent in the starting role and if there is a change it will be for Brohm or Fitz. For what its worth, I think that is the best strategy at this point. I think it doesn't take too much thinking to see that Gailey will be emphasizing (as he should, given the talent) the running game. We're just going to play the hand we're holding.

[Throwback Bills]

HIGH FIVES to the Bills scouts and Nix for not caving under to the so called experts and fans.

 

What a waste of a frist or second round pick on any of the QB's other than Bradford. We would have been without Spiller or Troup.

 

Again great job - Buddy

[Leonidas]

Bottom line is it doesn't really matter where you are drafted, it matters how you perform if and when you get your chance

 

That doesn't sound anything like "Hold onto all 7th round draft picks", does it?

 

Yeah, but that's not really what the guy was saying. Has Levi Brown shown us something that I'm not aware of?

[Doc]

So we should hold onto every 7th round draft pick/undrafted free agent because he might turn into Kurt Warner or Tom Brady? Yeah, that makes so much sense. Better hold on to Levi then...he's looking more and more like Kurt Warner every day.

It's worth holding onto QB's, to see if they develop, or maybe for trade bait. Look at the Pats with Cassel.

[Leonidas]

It's worth holding onto QB's, to see if they develop, or maybe for trade bait. Look at the Pats with Cassel.

 

You think Levi Brown is commanding a high trade value at the moment?

 

I'm not saying get rid of the guy necessarily. But the PS seems the logical destination for him. If someone grabs him, so be it. It doesn't mean you hold a roster spot for him if he's genuinely not ready to play in an NFL game. He has looked bad against scrubs. Against starters he'd be destroyed.