Enlightened Wall Members Help Me Out

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Do you have faith and trust it the gov't?

 

I have ZERO faith in the government to do ANYTHING right. Which is exactly why I'd have evacuated. I don't want a bunch of knuckleheads determining whether or not I die of thirst.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Then don't B word when you're stranded on a roof, starving and dying of thirst. Your greed put you there.

 

Now it is greed... :wallbash: We're on the word trust here, not greed. There is no greed at all. Stay with the program Joe... Follow along.

 

So now you want them to be super-human too!

 

[el Tigre]

Actually I have, and I've paid for those decisions, sometimes many-fold.

 

 

 

Then don't B word when you're stranded on a roof, starving and dying of thirst. Your greed put you there.

Greed??? Hows that greed?

[ExiledInIllinois]

I have ZERO faith in the government to do ANYTHING right. Which is exactly why I'd have evacuated. I don't want a bunch of knuckleheads determining whether or not I die of thirst.

 

So you are going to trust them (gov't ) to give you assistance. What would you evacuate with in 2005? You hunting rifle and a bag og apple seeds?

 

The part that does get me... Is that Camille and Betsy should have still been very fresh in people's minds... That is where I find blame... Somehow it skipped the whole culture. For Christ sake, people were putting rowboats and axes in their attics after Camille. At least have a Pocket filter on hand, you won't die of thrist... Throw it in a mud hole and pump away!

 

Greed??? Hows that greed?

 

That is what I don't get.

 

Cool merging of posts on the new boards! :thumbsup: IT is really gonna help me!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Now it is greed... :wallbash: We're on the word trust here, not greed. There is no greed at all. Stay with the program Joe... Follow along.

 

So now you want them to be super-human too!

 

 

Your contention is that they stayed because they didn't trust the gubmint would compensate them for loss. That would be greed trumping self-preservation, would it not?

[The Tomcat]

 

Ignoring the obvious problem with the bolded part, did hurricane Katrina make the people in Seattle thirsty?

 

HA!!! thats funny...my bad...I guess I cant edit my post???

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Greed??? Hows that greed?

 

 

Eric contends the reason people didn't leave was that they didn't trust the gubmint would properly compensate them for the loss of their homes, so they stayed.

 

If that isn't greed beating logic to death, I don't know what is.

[Chef Jim]

So you are going to trust them (gov't ) to give you assistance. What would you evacuate with in 2005? You hunting rifle and a bag og apple seeds?

 

The part that does get me... Is that Camille and Betsy should have still been very fresh in people's minds... That is where I find blame... Somehow it skipped the whole culture. For Christ sake, people were putting rowboats and axes in their attics after Camille. At least have a Pocket filter on hand, you won't die of thrist... Throw it in a mud hole and pump away!

 

 

 

That is what I don't get.

 

Cool merging of posts on the new boards! :thumbsup: IT is really gonna help me!:D

 

It's going to help us too. Question for you. Do you trust the government?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Eric contends the reason people didn't leave was that they didn't trust the gubmint would properly compensate them for the loss of their homes, so they stayed.

 

If that isn't greed beating logic to death, I don't know what is.

 

No not at all.

 

Self-preservation was them staying! Considering the past.

 

I know you don't understand that... And I really can't see it either, but I can understand it.

 

It's going to help us too. Question for you. Do you trust the government?

 

Yes. I really shouldn't. You were here before Katrina, I work for the Corps... I telegraphed this BEFORE the storm. I see what goes on daily.

 

Can we still access the old boards from 2005?

 

Strange (just like me) aye?

 

You know why LA by far is the most corrupt state in the Union?

 

Individualistic culture.

[Chef Jim]

No not at all.

 

Self-preservation was them staying! Considering the past.

 

I know you don't understand that... And I really can't see it either, but I can understand it.

 

 

 

Yes. I really shouldn't. You were here before Katrina, I work for the Corps... I telegraphed this BEFORE the storm. I see what goes on daily.

 

Can we still access the old boards from 2005?

 

Strange (just like me) aye?

 

You know why LA by far is the most corrupt state in the Union?

 

Individualistic culture.

 

If you shouldn't trust the government why do you? That's just stupid.

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

 

 

Nice strawman argument. Earthquakes aren't even remotely predictable.

 

 

True - they are not predictable though the point I made was that there is a strong probability that they will strike in a major population center. Given the probablilty should we say to the residents in the area that you need to accept that we will not come to your aid if you are hit by an earthquake? The answer is obviously no.

 

I was here in Dallas when the city of Houston was told to evacuate for Hurricane Rita. The attempt to do this was an absolute disaster. People did die simply trying to leave the city.

 

Not many people in this country live in locations free from possible natural disasters. Providing them with emergency assistance following one is not optional in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

I argue that if you live in the hills around Malibu and your home burns down for the THIRD time, the government shouldn't bail you out. Same for the person whose home floods out multiple times or the person whose house on the Outer banks is blown over by a hurricane AGAIN.

 

 

 

Government aid to rebuild in areas known to have a high probability of destruction due to natural disaster is not appropriate. The point I was trying to make though is that the devil is in the details. How high do the probability and frequency need to be? The area just north of Memphis suffered what is believed to be the worst quake in North America back in the late 1800's (New Madrid quake). It is also prone to flooding and tornadoes. Should we tell people that living there and building there is an unacceptable risk? Probably not. In your Malibu wildfire example the answer is probably yes. So who makes the decisions and draws up the standards?

[Peace]

Ack, a PPP thread broke out. Time to flush!

[BuffaloBill]

Ack, a PPP thread broke out. Time to flush!

 

 

They are prone to break out anywhere

[boyst]

I have read every post here. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

I have done a lot of volunteer work, I worked with youths throughout high school and part of college. I have worked with Habitat for humanity several times. I helped elderly people with various things. Some times I just feel good doing good things. To me the difference in helping an elderly person take their groceries or such to their car is to avoid them having an additional hardship. If I saw an old person asking for help to lift a gallon of milk in to their trunk I would not laugh and tell them that they should have bought a half gallon. I would help. Effort like that is simple. However, if that same person asked for an extra dollar to buy the gallon vs. the half gallon I would refuse. If you are that hard up that you cannot afford the difference than I have nothing for you.

 

All of that being said, I do see the point that government mistrust is prevelant in some people but for no reason should anyone expose themself to possible danger. Those that did not evacuate N.O. faced their decisions. Those people in Haiti should revolt. Thousands of people would die, surely, but a new government would be built. Most likely it would be entirely funded by the U.S. and be more successful, as well. 9/11, they should get some assistance, that's what insurance is for and if NY and the Gov did not provide good enough insurance than shame on the Gov...again...and again...and again.

 

This was not meant to be a PPP post. The point of this post was to ask about empathy towards victims and the numbing sensations provided by the media. I blame the media for a lot of things, but it is all of us who is ultimately to blame. From ABC Family to Fox News we get every bit of our "media" on a slant of some sort. FWIW, I hardly watch the news or read it any more. I hear about it on the radio but that is about it.

[DC Tom]

Who said you have to actively and demonstatively show your empathy? It seems to me the OP was doing the exact opposite and we're all just responding to him.

 

I do, because in my experience if you don't actively and demonstratively show it, people automatically assume you don't have any.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If you shouldn't trust the government why do you? That's just stupid.

 

I haven't personally been let down. That might change someday. So yes, I plough through that stupid field.

[Rob's House]

So I suppose you are arguing that for example if another earthquake hits SF that we should not help the people there? History and available scientific evidence suggests that they are likely to be hit by a devastating quake at some point so should they evacuate now? If they elect not to should we say "too bad?"

Yes. I'm sure there are a half dozen or so decent people in the city, but they're few and far between. If the avg San Franciscan were in the street on fire I wouldn't piss on him to put it out. And forgive me if I'm not ready to open my wallet to help a bunch of self-indulgent, hyper-critical, self-righteous, entitled trust fund babies in their time of need.

 

 

I agree that the citizens of N.O. had the opportunity to evacuate the city. However, I do not believe they should be punished for what amounted to a bad decision.

Who's punishing them, or even suggesting it? When you make a bad decision (and this wasn't just a bad decision, it was an outright retarded decision; that's what's known as Darwinism) it necessarily becomes your responsibility to do something about it.

 

...

All of that being said, I do see the point that government mistrust is prevelant in some people but for no reason should anyone expose themself to possible danger. Those that did not evacuate N.O. faced their decisions. Those people in Haiti should revolt. Thousands of people would die, surely, but a new government would be built. Most likely it would be entirely funded by the U.S. and be more successful, as well. 9/11, they should get some assistance, that's what insurance is for and if NY and the Gov did not provide good enough insurance than shame on the Gov...again...and again...and again.

 

This was not meant to be a PPP post. The point of this post was to ask about empathy towards victims and the numbing sensations provided by the media. I blame the media for a lot of things, but it is all of us who is ultimately to blame. From ABC Family to Fox News we get every bit of our "media" on a slant of some sort. FWIW, I hardly watch the news or read it any more. I hear about it on the radio but that is about it.

 

Never let anyone tell you how you should feel about something. Sitting around feeling bad about something you have no control over isn't virtuous, it's the definition of suffering. The media clearly exploits these situations for their own ends and after your emotions have been toyed with and manipulated it's natural to disconnect a bit. There are a few self-righteous who think extensive caring on their part for people they know nothing about makes them great people. It doesn't. If you do right by the people in your life that's as much as can be asked and more than most people give.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Rob's House

[Dan]

I have read every post here. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

I have done a lot of volunteer work, I worked with youths throughout high school and part of college. I have worked with Habitat for humanity several times. I helped elderly people with various things. Some times I just feel good doing good things. To me the difference in helping an elderly person take their groceries or such to their car is to avoid them having an additional hardship. If I saw an old person asking for help to lift a gallon of milk in to their trunk I would not laugh and tell them that they should have bought a half gallon. I would help. Effort like that is simple. However, if that same person asked for an extra dollar to buy the gallon vs. the half gallon I would refuse. If you are that hard up that you cannot afford the difference than I have nothing for you.

 

All of that being said, I do see the point that government mistrust is prevelant in some people but for no reason should anyone expose themself to possible danger. Those that did not evacuate N.O. faced their decisions. Those people in Haiti should revolt. Thousands of people would die, surely, but a new government would be built. Most likely it would be entirely funded by the U.S. and be more successful, as well. 9/11, they should get some assistance, that's what insurance is for and if NY and the Gov did not provide good enough insurance than shame on the Gov...again...and again...and again.

 

This was not meant to be a PPP post. The point of this post was to ask about empathy towards victims and the numbing sensations provided by the media. I blame the media for a lot of things, but it is all of us who is ultimately to blame. From ABC Family to Fox News we get every bit of our "media" on a slant of some sort. FWIW, I hardly watch the news or read it any more. I hear about it on the radio but that is about it.

I think it's just human nature to become sensitized to life in general and serious disasters certainly fit into that category. IMO, it doesn't necessarily mean you feel less or care less. It just means you've seen it all before. Now, to say people in NO should have left; therefore they got what they dserved is being a little callous. In the heat of the moment, people make sll sorts of bad decisions. In my earlier post regarding the first responders; there were plenty of bad decisions that were made amidst the misery of those following days. It doesn't completely excuse them, but it does help explain their actions.

 

Regarding Katrina, not everyone had the means to leave town. Where were they going to go? How were they going to get there? How would they eat? And so on. It's easy to think they should have all just left, but not everyone has that ability. And that should be taken into account (along with people's mindset at the time). I was also involved with some of the response to Katrina and was in coastal MS and LA within weeks after the storm. The devastation was unlike anything anyone would have predicted. I've seen several hurricane aftermaths and, believe me, Katrina was on an unbelievable scale. For that reason people that politicized it and said the government should have done more faster, had no idea what was being done or could be done. But, I digress.

 

Back to your point. I don't think it makes you a bad person. I think it just makes you someone that's seen too much of a bad thing. Personally, do I feel bad for any of these victims? It's not up for me to feel bad for them. I try to help in ways that I can; sometimes that's more than in others. But, every day someone some where is having something bad happen. You can't feel bad for them all. I just worry about myself, my family, my friends and try to help all those around me. And pray for those I can't help. In the end, I reckon it'll all get worked out some way.

[Chef Jim]

I haven't personally been let down. That might change someday. So yes, I plough through that stupid field.

 

What a fuggin' hypocrite. I've said it before and I'll say it again it's so much easier for a lefty to be a hypocrite. Yup you got yours so !@#$ everyone else. Hmmmm, where have I heard that before??

[Alaska Darin]

I'm hesitant to post this... but what the hell.

You shouldn't be. We in the military see the same thing. Guys who refuse to wear the protective gear and then lose appendages, the ability to walk, or their lives because of it. Even when you're trying to save/patch them up it's tough not to say "boy, I bet you regret now wearing your PPE now, don't you? Mr. 'I don't like to wear that **** because it's too hot/slows me down'."

 

Tell that to the wife and kids or parents you're going to leave behind.

 

"We regret to inform you that your son died or will live a lesser life because he was stupid."