Enlightened Wall Members Help Me Out

[el Tigre]

And yet, to play devil's advocate, these people were forewarned to evacuate and offered assistance to do so, yet did not.

 

So just how much pity should one have for someone in that situation?

Most of these people had lived in the area for years,and had weathered many hurricanes safely. In hindsight,yeah they made the wrong decision,but that doesn't mean they where somehow to blame for a natural disaster. Some of you guys seem to be looking for a reason to blame these poor folks for their misfortune.

[BuffaloBill]

And yet, to play devil's advocate, these people were forewarned to evacuate and offered assistance to do so, yet did not.

 

So just how much pity should one have for someone in that situation?

 

 

So I suppose you are arguing that for example if another earthquake hits SF that we should not help the people there? History and available scientific evidence suggests that they are likely to be hit by a devastating quake at some point so should they evacuate now? If they elect not to should we say "too bad?"

 

The people of Haiti were also simply unlucky enough to be born into a very poor country that sits on a fault line. Most do not have the means or the freedom to leave there. Should we simply say "dig yourself out of the mess?"

 

I agree that the citizens of N.O. had the opportunity to evacuate the city. However, I do not believe they should be punished for what amounted to a bad decision.

[The Tomcat]

You need to check yourself.

 

Maybe you need to do some volunteer work or something.

 

I took your post as extremely racist.

 

While I agree that people didn't want to leave the area, I would also point out many weren't able too. I also cant believe we (THE US GOVERNMENT) were not able to at the very least air drop water to the thousands of people at the King dome.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I took your post as extremely racist.

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of why this country has failed.

 

Most of these people had lived in the area for years,and had weathered many hurricanes safely. In hindsight,yeah they made the wrong decision,but that doesn't mean they where somehow to blame for a natural disaster. Some of you guys seem to be looking for a reason to blame these poor folks for their misfortune.

 

So, if I know I have financial problems and I go out and buy a Corvette should YOU have to pay to bail me out of my bad decision? Because I'd really like a new sports car.

 

So I suppose you are arguing that for example if another earthquake hits SF that we should not help the people there? History and available scientific evidence suggests that they are likely to be hit by a devastating quake at some point so should they evacuate now? If they elect not to should we say "too bad?"

 

I argue that if you live in the hills around Malibu and your home burns down for the THIRD time, the government shouldn't bail you out. Same for the person whose home floods out multiple times or the person whose house on the Outer banks is blown over by a hurricane AGAIN.

[el Tigre]

 

 

So, if I know I have financial problems and I go out and buy a Corvette should YOU have to pay to bail me out of my bad decision? Because I'd really like a new sports car.

 

 

 

I argue that if you live in the hills around Malibu and your home burns down for the THIRD time, the government shouldn't bail you out. Same for the person whose home floods out multiple times or the person whose house on the Outer banks is blown over by a hurricane AGAIN.

Comparing the hurricane Katrina victims to somebody buying a corvette is stupid. One is a natural disaster and one is an irresponsible person buying unnecessary luxury items.Get back to me when you have an analogy that makes some sense. Living in Malibu wasn't even being discussed here. What the hell are you talking about????????

Edited August 24, 2010 by el Tigre

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Comparing the hurricane Katrina victims to somebody buying a corvette is stupid. One is a natural disaster and one is an irresponsible person buying unnecessary luxury items.Get back to me when you have an analogy that makes some sense. Living in Malibu wasn't even being discussed here. What the hell are you talking about????????

 

The point is, angry person, if you live in a hurricane-prone area (or earthquake-prone area or a fire-prone area) you HAVE to accept the risks of living in such an area and be willing to bear the burden of the consequences. Not me. YOU. Ergo, if someone comes to you and says "hey, you better leave, the city's going to get wiped out" and you don't leave, don't come crying to me when help doesn't arrive to you at your leisure.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Joe In Macungie

[DC Tom]

Hurricane Katrina was a pretty major thing. It is amazing to watch these National Geographic recaps of the events and see the gravity it had on the lives of so many. Yet, I sit here numb. I do not feel a large emotional response to hearing that so many died. I do not feel bad at all that many were left without houses, had to walk miles in flooded water, or stay in the Super Dome for 3 days. The magnitude of devastation is equal to that of 9/11, in my mind. However, 9/11 was unforseen by the victims while everyone knew Katrina was coming and made their choices, leave or stay. I have sat here for the past 4 days thinking about why I do not give a shiz about New Orleans, specifically. Still, after a lot of thought, I do not know what to make of my beliefs. Should I feel more remorse, emotions, or anything for Katrina? Or are there others out there who simply do not want to hear how the whole area had to over come so much?

 

On a second take, which I have thought of, as well; the Gulf Oil spill upsets me greatly. It is most unfortunate that our enviroment has to suffer. Yet, when it comes to that area, for the most part I am spent. I am done caring. Part of me also believes that it was the press coverage that sways me to be almost against the entire area. So, again, am I alone? Am I heartless? Boards thoughts?

 

Also, for the record, I feel even less about Haiti. The victims there were not that of the quake but they were victims of corruption.

 

It's very simple, really. World Trade Center: Iconic. New Orleans, Haiti: not so much. 9/11 was more deeply personal for just about everyone in the country - but I would expect a New Orleans resident or Haitian immigrant to have much stronger feelings about those respective events. Those events to which we perceive more proximity affect us more deeply.

 

As further example: presuming you're actually a Buffalo ex-pat (and not a Queens resident), which had more of an effect on you? Tim Russert's death, or the 2001 Airbus crash in Queens? Or, for that matter, the 20M displaced by floods in Pakistan this year, or victims of the Christmas tsunami? Perceived proximity matters.

 

(Note, too, that not getting all weepy-eyed is different from not feeling sympathy. Most people don't understand that - I'm routinely considered an unsympathetic bastard because I don't demonstratively emote every time someone stubs a toe...)

 

So I suppose you are arguing that for example if another earthquake hits SF that we should not help the people there? History and available scientific evidence suggests that they are likely to be hit by a devastating quake at some point so should they evacuate now? If they elect not to should we say "too bad?"

 

The people of Haiti were also simply unlucky enough to be born into a very poor country that sits on a fault line. Most do not have the means or the freedom to leave there. Should we simply say "dig yourself out of the mess?"

 

I agree that the citizens of N.O. had the opportunity to evacuate the city. However, I do not believe they should be punished for what amounted to a bad decision.

 

Nice strawman argument. Earthquakes aren't even remotely predictable.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Nice strawman argument. Earthquakes aren't even remotely predictable.

 

He'd have been ALMOST better off using seasonal wildfires as a better example. Almost.

 

But even then, if you choose to live in a canyon that you KNOW burns once every couple of years, good luck to you. Don't ask me to bail you out.

[Ramius]

You need to check yourself.

 

Maybe you need to do some volunteer work or something.

 

I took your post as extremely racist.

 

While I agree that people didn't want to leave the area, I would also point out many weren't able too. I also cant believe we (THE US GOVERNMENT) were not able to at the very least air drop water to the thousands of people at the King dome.

 

 

Ignoring the obvious problem with the bolded part, did hurricane Katrina make the people in Seattle thirsty?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Ignoring the obvious problem with the bolded part, did hurricane Katrina make the people in Seattle thirsty?

 

Anger. RAGE! *shakes fist*

 

Damn the government! Of all the things to get annoyed at the government about, failure to drop bottles of water (think that one through) is the least thing on the list.

[DC Tom]

While I agree that people didn't want to leave the area, I would also point out many weren't able too. I also cant believe we (THE US GOVERNMENT) were not able to at the very least air drop water to the thousands of people at the King dome.

 

Ignoring the obvious problem with the bolded part...TRANSCOM, not being run by complete idiots, tends to understand that carpet-bombing flood victims with shipping pallets is generally counter-productive.

[Chef Jim]

So I suppose you are arguing that for example if another earthquake hits SF that we should not help the people there? History and available scientific evidence suggests that they are likely to be hit by a devastating quake at some point so should they evacuate now? If they elect not to should we say "too bad?"

 

The people of Haiti were also simply unlucky enough to be born into a very poor country that sits on a fault line. Most do not have the means or the freedom to leave there. Should we simply say "dig yourself out of the mess?"

 

I agree that the citizens of N.O. had the opportunity to evacuate the city. However, I do not believe they should be punished for what amounted to a bad decision.

 

We don't need your help, but thanks anyway.

[el Tigre]

The point is, angry person, if you live in a hurricane-prone area (or earthquake-prone area or a fire-prone area) you HAVE to accept the risks of living in such an area and be willing to bear the burden of the consequences. Not me. YOU. Ergo, if someone comes to you and says "hey, you better leave, the city's going to get wiped out" and you don't leave, don't come crying to me when help doesn't arrive to you at your leisure.

No anger,just a lack of tolerence for silly analogies that muddle the point. What area isn't sometimes threatened by floods,wildfires,earthquakes,tornadoes,hurricanes or other natural disasters? I guess you must live there.Can I be your neighbor???? The original discussion point of this thread (or so I thought)was not government spending,or insurance coverage or YOUR responsibility. It was only about the feelings we have toward the victims.Hell,I haven't done as much as I could have,or probably should have,to help out.I gave a little extra at church and donated some clothes and money here and there,that's about it. But I do have empathy in my heart for those poor people and I have prayed for them. That don't cost you anything and I don't think it's too much to ask from anyone.

Edited August 24, 2010 by el Tigre

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No anger,just a lack of tolerence for silly analogies that muddle the point. What area isn't sometimes threatened by floods,wildfires,earthquakes,tornadoes,hurricanes or other natural disasters? I guess you must live there.Can I be your neighbor???? The original discussion point of this thread (or so I thought)was not government spending,or insurance coverage or YOUR responsibility. It was only about the feelings we have toward the victims.Hell,I haven't done as much as I could have,or probably should have,to help out.I gave a little extra at church and donated some clothes and money here and there,that's about it. But I do have empathy in my heart for those poor people and I have prayed for them. That don't cost you nothing and I don't think it's too much to ask from anyone.

 

I gave to the cause of the Haitian people on multiple occasions and still am. Our church has run three separate trips to help rebuild an orphanage in Haiti, as well. Those people, I have empathy for. Because they're truly hopeless. The people who stayed in NO get no pity from me. They were warned, and made a choice.

[DC Tom]

But I do have empathy in my heart for those poor people and I have prayed for them. That don't cost you nothing and I don't think it's too much to ask from anyone.

 

Actually, considering that most people B word if you don't actively and demonstratively show empathy, it costs a hell of a lot. If I were as visibly sympathetic towards every damned bit of suffering I see or hear about on a daily basis as people expect I should be, I couldn't function as a normal person.

 

Plus...I'm a fatalist. Quite simply, **** happens. People suffer, and people die. It's not some out-of-the-ordinary event that requires ridiculously histrionic levels of recognition, it's natural.

[el Tigre]

The people who stayed in NO get no pity from me. They were warned, and made a choice.

I hope you never make a bad decision bro.

[ExiledInIllinois]

And yet, to play devil's advocate, these people were forewarned to evacuate and offered assistance to do so, yet did not.

 

So just how much pity should one have for someone in that situation?

 

Okay... I can play too...

 

Many people in New Orleans know of stories and/or had relatives, families, friends in the past that ... IE: Great Flood of 1927... Were told to evacuate their house so they could purposely flood the area and save the city of New Orleans... That they were to get fair market value later... Only to do that (evacuate, they blew the levees, and saved NOLA, while purposely flooding those poor saps) and then get screwed in the end.

 

Yes, it was a long time ago... Yet, memories like that tend to live on... You think?

 

You know that 1927 flood was one major reason African-Americans left the Republican party in droves.

 

Sounds crazy but it is true... This is where all the wild stories of them purposely blowing the levees got started... Because it was very real in the past.

 

I have a lot of pity... They were screwed before, what is stopping the powers that be from screwing the again?

 

TRUST. There was none. Would you move without a penny and hope you were to get assistance knowing the past and feeling that they may be screwing you? Hell no! I'd take my chances with the storm! Especially in the media world we live in today.

[el Tigre]

Actually, considering that most people B word if you don't actively and demonstratively show empathy, it costs a hell of a lot. If I were as visibly sympathetic towards every damned bit of suffering I see or hear about on a daily basis as people expect I should be, I couldn't function as a normal person.

 

Plus...I'm a fatalist. Quite simply, **** happens. People suffer, and people die. It's not some out-of-the-ordinary event that requires ridiculously histrionic levels of recognition, it's natural.

Who said you have to actively and demonstatively show your empathy? It seems to me the OP was doing the exact opposite and we're all just responding to him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I hope you never make a bad decision bro.

 

 

Actually I have, and I've paid for those decisions, sometimes many-fold.

 

TRUST. There was none. Would you move without a penny and hope you were to get assistance knowing the past and feeling that they may be screwing you? Hell no! I'd take my chances with the storm! Especially in the media world we live in today.

 

Then don't B word when you're stranded on a roof, starving and dying of thirst. Your greed put you there.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I forgot to mention... After that 1927 flood... They put white people and black people together in separate camps. Black people couldn't leave. White people were able to come and go as they pleased... Go back and tend their private crops farms/homes.

 

If you were poor black and stories like that were passed down... Would you leave? Would you trus?.

 

Again.. The word I keep getting back to here is TRUST. You Joe (and others) obviously have trust and faith... Same with me... Many others did not, they took it upon their own to fight the storm themselves and in the end lost. How can yoou blame them? Why is that a sense of cowardice? Isn't that the exact opposite? Sure they lost the battle... Wasn't very smart. Now let's get back to trust. Do you have faith and trust it the gov't?