Ralph is not Cheap 2

[bills in va]

So by extension, you'd rather be dead than have a crappy life.

 

Gaughan's simplistic use of the salary cap is his first mistake. Yearly total payroll (i.e. the money actually spent) is the key, not how teams creatively fit under the salary cap. The Bills were 11th last year in that category.

That makes it even worse! If they spent that much for a terrible product, no probowlers or all star players where is the bang for the buck? If your saying they spent more than 21 other teams and still fielded that piece of crap we saw last year-pathetic. I feel better when I hear we had the absolute lowest payroll, then you can blame ralph for being cheap. Using your numbers we are worse, inept and systematically horrible.

[Doc]

That makes it even worse! If they spent that much for a terrible product, no probowlers or all star players where is the bang for the buck? If your saying they spent more than 21 other teams and still fielded that piece of crap we saw last year-pathetic. I feel better when I hear we had the absolute lowest payroll, then you can blame ralph for being cheap. Using your numbers we are worse, inept and systematically horrible.

The Bills have missed the playoffs for a decade (although they haven't had the worst record over that time). We already knew things were bad. So realizing Ralph isn't cheap isn't worse. It just goes to show you that money doesn't solve things. Although I guess Ralph could have spent big bucks on a name HC, only to alienate his star player.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Doc

[Delete This Account]

I'm not sure I ever said that I thought the Bills had no interest in either coach. In fact, I'd be shocked if they did not have interest in both of them. But having interest, and thinking you have a good shot at hiring one, are two entirely different matters.

 

And to your point about TO being hired essentially by Mr. Wilson. You obviously have far better info and sources than I would ever hope to so I would not dare dispute you on this. But are you saying you think it was done for a reason other than PR, regardless of who actually pulled the trigger? Again, it is difficult to dispute you on matters involving the Bills, but I have a hard time coming to grips with that one in my head.

so, you're point is, they shouldn't have even approached Shanahan or Cowher? then, that would prove the point that they are cheap, right?

 

as for the other thing, don't give me this high-and-mighty baloney that i'm pulling rank here because of my position as a sports writer. why don't you do your homework and check your own sources by simply doing a google search for my name, Canton, Terrell Owens and Ralph Wilson, to see what I reported last year to get an idea of how it all went down.

 

jw

[Heels20X6]

so, you're point is, they shouldn't have even approached Shanahan or Cowher? then, that would prove the point that they are cheap, right?

 

as for the other thing, don't give me this high-and-mighty baloney that i'm pulling rank here because of my position as a sports writer. why don't you do your homework and check your own sources by simply doing a google search for my name, Canton, Terrell Owens and Ralph Wilson, to see what I reported last year to get an idea of how it all went down.

 

jw

 

 

BOOM! You just got b*****-slapped by the Wawrow.

[thebug]

BOOM! You just got b*****-slapped by the Wawrow.

 

 

JW got b****-slapped by JW?

[BuffaloWest]

We may never know? I think it was pretty clearly a PR stunt.

 

 

 

http://www.ksdk.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=190085&catid=71

 

I hope Shanahan fails miserably in Washington. Every indication is that he will. When was the last time a coach really succeeded there? He used the Bills to set his starting price knowing Washington was interested. Of course they took the bait. Plus-He just looks like a total doosh to me...I dont like the cut of his jib...and Im Irish!

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

That makes it even worse! If they spent that much for a terrible product, no probowlers or all star players where is the bang for the buck? If your saying they spent more than 21 other teams and still fielded that piece of crap we saw last year-pathetic. I feel better when I hear we had the absolute lowest payroll, then you can blame ralph for being cheap. Using your numbers we are worse, inept and systematically horrible.

Bad is bad, losing is losing. The ability to assign assign blame should make you feel any better.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Baby Joe Mesi

[Doc]

so, you're point is, they shouldn't have even approached Shanahan or Cowher? then, that would prove the point that they are cheap, right?

The only conclusion that can be drawn from Shanahan and Cowher not signing with the Bills is that "Ralph is cheap^TM."

 

as for the other thing, don't give me this high-and-mighty baloney that i'm pulling rank here because of my position as a sports writer. why don't you do your homework and check your own sources by simply doing a google search for my name, Canton, Terrell Owens and Ralph Wilson, to see what I reported last year to get an idea of how it all went down.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from the Bills signing TO is that it was a "PR stunt^TM."

Edited August 23, 2010 by Doc

[jahnyc]

Whatever the intentions were, the reality is that the Bills ended up with a low cost GM, head coach and coaching staff. The real test as to whether RW is cheap would be if the Bills had four young, excellent players that wanted new contracts (like the Jets). Unfortunately, none of our recent top draft picks are deserving of new deals at this point of their careers.

[JohnC]

Russ Brandon did not bring T.O. in. He acted upon the orders of Ralph Wilson.

also, why would it be smart P.R. to send out signals that the Bills are interested in Shanahan and Cowher if, in the end, the team has no interest in either. wouldn't that be bad P.R. when neither are signed. perhaps, the reality of it was that the Bills were, in fact, interested in both.

 

jw

 

jw,

 

The Bills did have an interest in both of these former HCs. What was also very well known by this organization is that neither had much interest in working in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson is a very well known quantity. Mike S didn't have to talk to Polian or A.J. Smith to understand the organizational structure and other pathologies associated with this RW franchise. My understanding is that Brandon flew out to Colorado. MS did not come to western NY. (You would know that for sure, I don't.) Shanahan knew he would have other options. So it was better for him to wait for a more favorable situation. We also now know that Cowher had very serious family issues which he needed to respond to. So there was no chance that he was going to come to Buffalo.

 

The real issue here is not how much an owner spends or doesn't spend. That is a bogus issue. The real issue here is how is an organization managed and what is its record. If you want to defend the franchise's management and record then that is your prerogative. If you defend it then that tells me your standards are somewhat low.

Edited August 23, 2010 by JohnC

[flopagamo]

I hope Shanahan fails miserably in Washington. Every indication is that he will. When was the last time a coach really succeeded there? He used the Bills to set his starting price knowing Washington was interested. Of course they took the bait. Plus-He just looks like a total doosh to me...I dont like the cut of his jib...and Im Irish!

 

(1) Excellent pic you got there

(2) YES dude. Shanahan is the "offensive genius" who rode Elway's arm and Alex Gibbs' illegal cut-blocking method to a couple Super Bowls. Overpriced and overrated... I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot clown pole.

[Delete This Account]

jw,

 

The Bills did have an interest in both of these former HCs. What was also very well known by this organization is that neither had much interest in working in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson is a very well known quantity. Mike S didn't have to talk to Polian or A.J. Smith to understand the organizational structure and other pathologies associated with this RW franchise. My understanding is that Brandon flew out to Colorado. MS did not come to western NY. (You would know that for sure, I don't.) Shanahan knew he would have other options. So it was better for him to wait for a more favorable situation. We also now know that Cowher had very serious family issues which he needed to respond to. So there was no chance that he was going to come to Buffalo.

 

The real issue here is not how much an owner spends or doesn't spend. That is a bogus issue. The real issue here is how is an organization managed and what is its record. If you want to defend the franchise's management and record then that is your prerogative. If you defend it then that tells me your standards are somewhat low.

don't try to tell me what my standards are. that's cheap and insincere because you are mischaracterizing what i posted:

 

Russ Brandon did not bring T.O. in. He acted upon the orders of Ralph Wilson.

also, why would it be smart P.R. to send out signals that the Bills are interested in Shanahan and Cowher if, in the end, the team has no interest in either. wouldn't that be bad P.R. when neither are signed. perhaps, the reality of it was that the Bills were, in fact, interested in both.

 

jw

you are clearly attempting to read inbetween the lines of my intentions here, which were:

1) to point out that it was not Russ Brandon who brought in T.O.

2) to question the logic of a poorly thought-out argument.

 

simple as that. and limited to that.

but you can't stop there. no.

rather, using an overcreative imagination and an overblown sense of entititlement, you manage to cull something out of this that somehow entitles you to question my standards. puh-leaze.

 

jw

[stony]

That makes it even worse! If they spent that much for a terrible product, no probowlers or all star players where is the bang for the buck? If your saying they spent more than 21 other teams and still fielded that piece of crap we saw last year-pathetic. I feel better when I hear we had the absolute lowest payroll, then you can blame ralph for being cheap. Using your numbers we are worse, inept and systematically horrible.

 

Isn't the total payroll stat skewed by the outlandish rookie contracts that have taken over the league in the past decade? I heard that Seattle has an enormous payroll but that is do in large part to top five picks(roughly) in the past two drafts as well as two more 1st rounders this year.

[Buffalonian-at-Heart]

Recently there was a marathon discussion on this forum where people argued about whether Ralph is spending enough money to field a winner. Yesterday's article by Mark Gaughan adds a little reality to the assumptions some people made.

 

He indicated "In terms of cap spending, the Bills ranked 32nd in the NFL last year, at $120.8 million, according to NFL Players Association figures." For those of you who like to dispute sources, you can't get a better one than the Players' Association. They don't spin the numbers in favor of team owners. Gaughan also stated that "Up until this season, there also was a cap minimum that teams must spend. Last year it was $108 million."

 

Now factor in the salaries the Bills were forced to pay last year because of a record number of injuries (an amount they didn't expect to be that high) and they had to be close to the minimum the league forces them to spend. If we were the lowest in the league in player salaries and hired discount management, can anyone make a credible case for Ralph not being cheap... and wanting to field a winner?

 

Of course, we may never know if he was serious about paying 10 million for an elite coach, but the weight of evidence is strongly in favor of that being just the usual "spin."

 

I'm the one that started the original Ralph is not cheap thread. What drives me nuts about your argument is simple. Your screen name is "Bills Fan in Florida". So you are a fan of a team you believe the owner will not allow to be a winner? How do you do this? Don't you almost feel like a fool rooting for a team you believe is conspired against by its owner? You come on a Bills site and post 589 times about a team you have convinced yourself won't and can't win because the owner won't let it? Aren't you embarrassed to reveal that you root for a team that can't win? If I convinced myself of this, I couldn't spend my time or money being involved.

[JohnC]

don't try to tell me what my standards are. that's cheap and insincere because you are mischaracterizing what i posted:

 

jw

 

The Bills franchise has been in existence for a half century. It is an owner dominated organization. Every major decision from hiring to budgeting to organizational structure is made by the owner. Even in his late stage he is still a key figure in the organization. I'm sure he is very less involved in the minutia of running the franchise but anything of substance still comes to him.

 

The Bills are where they are and where they have been for a very long time because of him. There is an elephant in the room which you choose to ignore for whatever reason. The Bills are not ordained to be bad. They are bad because of an owner's ineptitude.

 

This back and forth over Shanahan and Cowher is nothing but foolishess. They both made it clear from the beginning of the job search process that they weren't interested in working in a Ralph Wilson organization. I'm sure both candidates were respectful to the Bills' overtures but it was known very early on that they weren't interested.

 

After it was clear that Shanahan and Cowher weren't interested Nix was hired without any other serious search and interview process. The owner did what he usually did. He hired someone he knew (Nix) without any further meaningful search process.

 

My central point in the prior posting is that the Bills are what they are because of the owner. You seem not to see it that way.

[BillsVet]

(1) Excellent pic you got there

(2) YES dude. Shanahan is the "offensive genius" who rode Elway's arm and Alex Gibbs' illegal cut-blocking method to a couple Super Bowls. Overpriced and overrated... I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot clown pole.

 

Then read "A Few Seconds of Panic" by Stefan Fatsis about Shanahan's Broncos in training camp. People predictably are bad-mouthing and minimizing Shanahan because he was let go in Denver. Yet, he'll probably be a HOF'er and this year the Redskins added a real QB, made the move to a 3-4, and help at OT.

 

I hate the Redskins, but this attack dog mentality is absurd simply because the guy didn't want to go to a complete rebuilding project with an owner who's not serious about winning anymore.

[CodeMonkey]

so, you're point is, they shouldn't have even approached Shanahan or Cowher? then, that would prove the point that they are cheap, right?

 

as for the other thing, don't give me this high-and-mighty baloney that i'm pulling rank here because of my position as a sports writer. why don't you do your homework and check your own sources by simply doing a google search for my name, Canton, Terrell Owens and Ralph Wilson, to see what I reported last year to get an idea of how it all went down.

 

jw

Wow man you need to chill and take a deep breath for a second.

 

Ok, now, I NEVER said the Bills or Ralph were cheap. But I do feel that the TO signing was PR only. Simply because I can't imagine anyone thinking TO would be a help on the field when we could not get the ball to him.

 

Secondly, when I said in my previous post that your sources are better than mine and your info is obviously better I was SERIOUS. I was not trying to feed you any baloney or imply you were pulling rank or anything else. Just acknowledging you would know more about the inner workings at OBD than I would ever want to.

 

You read far more into my previous post than was intended.

Edited August 24, 2010 by CodeMonkey

[Delete This Account]

Wow man you need to chill and take a deep breath for a second.

 

Ok, now, I NEVER said the Bills or Ralph were cheap. But I do feel that the TO signing was PR only. Simply because I can't imagine anyone thinking TO would be a help on the field when we could not get the ball to him.

 

Secondly, when I said in my previous post that your sources are better than mine and your info is obviously better I was SERIOUS. I was not trying to feed you any baloney or imply you were pulling rank or anything else. Just acknowledging you would know about the inner workings at OBD than I would ever want to.

 

You read far more into my previous post than was intended.

if that is the case, then i do sincerely apologize. my mistake.

 

jw

[CodeMonkey]

if that is the case, then i do sincerely apologize. my mistake.

 

jw

No worries. It's hard to tell sometimes in written form

[Delete This Account]

The Bills franchise has been in existence for a half century. It is an owner dominated organization. Every major decision from hiring to budgeting to organizational structure is made by the owner. Even in his late stage he is still a key figure in the organization. I'm sure he is very less involved in the minutia of running the franchise but anything of substance still comes to him.

 

The Bills are where they are and where they have been for a very long time because of him. There is an elephant in the room which you choose to ignore for whatever reason. The Bills are not ordained to be bad. They are bad because of an owner's ineptitude.

 

This back and forth over Shanahan and Cowher is nothing but foolishess. They both made it clear from the beginning of the job search process that they weren't interested in working in a Ralph Wilson organization. I'm sure both candidates were respectful to the Bills' overtures but it was known very early on that they weren't interested.

 

After it was clear that Shanahan and Cowher weren't interested Nix was hired without any other serious search and interview process. The owner did what he usually did. He hired someone he knew (Nix) without any further meaningful search process.

 

My central point in the prior posting is that the Bills are what they are because of the owner. You seem not to see it that way.

fine. that's your opinion. why is it your intention to drag me into some sort of agreement with you, and then do so by saying if i don't, you'll accuse me of having low standards?

i'm not getting dragged into this discussion or share with you the way i see it because it's not my place.

 

my intention -- for the third time in this thread -- (and i'll type slowly so you can keep up) was to simply point out that a poster had a fact wrong and that his other point lacked a certain sense of logic.

 

people are entitled to their opinions. in the case of this topic, too often, people go off half-cocked by basing their opinions on loose facts and logic.

you, rather, would prefer to make it personal by taking a potshot at me by questioning my standards.

 

jw