Ralph is not Cheap 2

[BillsfaninFl]

Recently there was a marathon discussion on this forum where people argued about whether Ralph is spending enough money to field a winner. Yesterday's article by Mark Gaughan adds a little reality to the assumptions some people made.

 

He indicated "In terms of cap spending, the Bills ranked 32nd in the NFL last year, at $120.8 million, according to NFL Players Association figures." For those of you who like to dispute sources, you can't get a better one than the Players' Association. They don't spin the numbers in favor of team owners. Gaughan also stated that "Up until this season, there also was a cap minimum that teams must spend. Last year it was $108 million."

 

Now factor in the salaries the Bills were forced to pay last year because of a record number of injuries (an amount they didn't expect to be that high) and they had to be close to the minimum the league forces them to spend. If we were the lowest in the league in player salaries and hired discount management, can anyone make a credible case for Ralph not being cheap... and wanting to field a winner?

 

Of course, we may never know if he was serious about paying 10 million for an elite coach, but the weight of evidence is strongly in favor of that being just the usual "spin."

[kota]

What are the operating costs for the Bills? You need to know this before calling Ralph cheap. You need to remember that the Bills are a business whose sole purpose is to make money. If you start paying the absurd amount of money teams like the Redskins do for Albert Haynesworth the bills might go in the red. If the Bills going into the Red they are moving. Is that what you want?

[CodeMonkey]

What are the operating costs for the Bills? You need to know this before calling Ralph cheap. You need to remember that the Bills are a business whose sole purpose is to make money. If you start paying the absurd amount of money teams like the Redskins do for Albert Haynesworth the bills might go in the red. If the Bills going into the Red they are moving. Is that what you want?

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but logically the Bills must have among the lowest operating expenses in the business. Ralph has owned the Bills outright forever and hasn't forked out the money to build his own stadium or anything else that would make him take on debt. This is a debt free team, his operating expenses must be as low as they possibly can be.

 

With profit sharing and a equal split of TV revenue, Ralph must be doing very well with the Bills.

Now if profit sharing goes away (which teams that play the Bills frequently must be trying for) and the TV revenue goes proportional to a teams gate or how often they are televised, then Ralph would be in big trouble. Until then he is riding the gravy train.

 

I'm not saying Ralph is running this team on the cheap or not. I'm just saying there is little to no chance of him going into the red with the situation as it currently is.

[BillnutinHouston]

Of course, we may never know if he was serious about paying 10 million for an elite coach, but the weight of evidence is strongly in favor of that being just the usual "spin."

 

There may have been an element of PR in Brandon's confirmation that the Bills were pursuing Shanahan and Cowher, but the idea that it was MERELY PR, is absolutely ridiculous. It completely defies common sense.

 

Put your "PR" hat on for a minute and let's assume that theory is true. Do you knowingly initiate and publicize your coaching search and inflate fans's expectations, all the while KNOWING that the end result is going to be a small-name disappointment? Apparently the brilliant PR plan consisted of getting fans excited for a few weeks only to treat them to YEARS of cruel and disappointing reality? Just what is the PR value of artificially inflating and then intentionally crushing fans' expectations?

 

THINK people!

Edited August 23, 2010 by BillnutinHouston

[CodeMonkey]

There may have been an element of PR in Brandon's confirmation that the Bills were pursuing Shanahan and Cowher, but the idea that it was MERELY PR, is absolutely ridiculous. It completely defies common sense.

 

Put your "PR" hat on for a minute and let's assume that theory is true. Do you knowingly initiate and publicize your coaching search and inflate fans's expectations, all the while KNOWING that the end result is going to be a small-name disappointment? Apparently the brilliant PR plan consisted of getting fans excited for a few weeks only to treat them to YEARS of cruel and disappointing reality? Just what is the PR value of artificially inflating and then intentionally crushing fans' expectations?

 

THINK people!

Well, considering that this is Marketing-Man Brandon, and he brought in TO last year to sell tickets, my only guess is he thought the hope of a "name" coach would push people to renew their seasons. Maybe hoping the denials from said "names" would take longer than they did. I don't know, I've got no other reason that I can think of.

 

Why else would he confirm? I can't believe he thought the Bills were actually going to get either one.

[Gabe Northern]

 

Of course, we may never know if he was serious about paying 10 million for an elite coach, but the weight of evidence is strongly in favor of that being just the usual "spin."

 

We may never know? I think it was pretty clearly a PR stunt.

 

Wilson discounted reports that the team is interested in interviewing Mike Shanahan, the former Denver Broncos coach.

 

"I don't know anything about him," he said.

 

http://www.ksdk.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=190085&catid=71

[birdog1960]

We may never know? I think it was pretty clearly a PR stunt.

 

 

 

http://www.ksdk.com/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=190085&catid=71

ah, the infamous "looking down the wrong side of the street" quote. wilson should really let someone else come up with his metaphors. but he certainly is a "wily old coot" as described in the toronto paper. i think the big name coach/gm brooha was just more evidence of that.

[bills in va]

What are the operating costs for the Bills? You need to know this before calling Ralph cheap. You need to remember that the Bills are a business whose sole purpose is to make money. If you start paying the absurd amount of money teams like the Redskins do for Albert Haynesworth the bills might go in the red. If the Bills going into the Red they are moving. Is that what you want?

Haynesworth is an outrageous example of overspending. You need to stop throwing out his name when defending Ralph for being cheap. Don't use Dockery's name for examples ofbd spending either. You have to look at trends and overall payroll, not just 1 player. Of course we don't want the Snyder approach but that's the extreme. The BILLS are the other extreme by underspending, not resigning their best players and not going after better players and coaches. The numbers don't lie, Ralph is cheap and we will never be a winner unless we pay for better personnel. If you look at the top ten teams in spending, 8 of them were in the playoffs last year. The bottom 10-no playoffs. No coincidence.

[BillsVet]

It's disturbing that the owner does not know one of the NFL's most well-known head coaches. I realize RW is at an advanced age, but surely every owner and GM knows who Mike Shanahan is.

 

I recall RW saying at his re-scheduled ring ceremony last year that he still believed he had youth on his side. These tired metaphors sound nice, but it's clear he's pursuing the team as it was years ago.

[Coach Tuesday]

What are the operating costs for the Bills? You need to know this before calling Ralph cheap. You need to remember that the Bills are a business whose sole purpose is to make money. If you start paying the absurd amount of money teams like the Redskins do for Albert Haynesworth the bills might go in the red. If the Bills going into the Red they are moving. Is that what you want?

 

Ah, the old Battered Wife Syndrome response to the "Ralph Is Cheap" argument. My favorite response. Buffalonians should be lucky that Ralph hasn't taken his ball and gone home, because we're such a pathetic city that we deserve whatever crappy product we get.

 

Let me say this: I don't agree with the premise that Buffalo cannot financially compete and field a winning team. HOWEVER, if that were the case, then yes, I'd rather the team moved. I'd rather no team than a perennially crappy one. I know not everyone feels this way - and I suspect that this is one of the main dividing lines on this Board.

[Doc]

Ah, the old Battered Wife Syndrome response to the "Ralph Is Cheap" argument. My favorite response. Buffalonians should be lucky that Ralph hasn't taken his ball and gone home, because we're such a pathetic city that we deserve whatever crappy product we get.

 

Let me say this: I don't agree with the premise that Buffalo cannot financially compete and field a winning team. HOWEVER, if that were the case, then yes, I'd rather the team moved. I'd rather no team than a perennially crappy one. I know not everyone feels this way - and I suspect that this is one of the main dividing lines on this Board.

So by extension, you'd rather be dead than have a crappy life.

 

Gaughan's simplistic use of the salary cap is his first mistake. Yearly total payroll (i.e. the money actually spent) is the key, not how teams creatively fit under the salary cap. The Bills were 11th last year in that category.

[CodeMonkey]

So by extension, you'd rather be dead than have a crappy life.

Yes some people feel this way. I have a living will that says I do not want to be kept alive by extraordinary means. This is saying I would rather die with dignity than stay alive as a vegetable and a burden to my family. I know this is the extreme case, but by extension then some people do feel that they would have the Bills flourish elsewhere rather than be a miserable failure continually in Buffalo.

 

It may not be your opinion or a very popular one here, but it is perfectly reasonable for some to feel this way.

[Coach Tuesday]

Yes some people feel this way. I have a living will that says I do not want to be kept alive by extraordinary means. This is saying I would rather die with dignity than stay alive as a vegetable and a burden to my family. I know this is the extreme case, but by extension then some people do feel that they would have the Bills flourish elsewhere rather than be a miserable failure continually in Buffalo.

 

It may not be your opinion or a very popular one here, but it is perfectly reasonable for some to feel this way.

 

CM, that sums up nicely how I feel. Thanks.

[Delete This Account]

Well, considering that this is Marketing-Man Brandon, and he brought in TO last year to sell tickets, my only guess is he thought the hope of a "name" coach would push people to renew their seasons. Maybe hoping the denials from said "names" would take longer than they did. I don't know, I've got no other reason that I can think of.

 

Why else would he confirm? I can't believe he thought the Bills were actually going to get either one.

Russ Brandon did not bring T.O. in. He acted upon the orders of Ralph Wilson.

also, why would it be smart P.R. to send out signals that the Bills are interested in Shanahan and Cowher if, in the end, the team has no interest in either. wouldn't that be bad P.R. when neither are signed. perhaps, the reality of it was that the Bills were, in fact, interested in both.

 

jw

[PromoTheRobot]

Russ Brandon did not bring T.O. in. He acted upon the orders of Ralph Wilson.

also, why would it be smart P.R. to send out signals that the Bills are interested in Shanahan and Cowher if, in the end, the team has no interest in either. wouldn't that be bad P.R. when neither are signed. perhaps, the reality of it was that the Bills were, in fact, interested in both.

 

jw

Forget it. Some people don't want the truth because it conflicts with their little made-up reality.

 

PTR

[Delete This Account]

Forget it. Some people don't want the truth because it conflicts with their little made-up reality.

 

PTR

i'm aware of that, but thought it important to allow a certain actual fact and a logically reasoned point get in the way of this latest lynch-mob stampede.

 

jw

[CodeMonkey]

Russ Brandon did not bring T.O. in. He acted upon the orders of Ralph Wilson.

also, why would it be smart P.R. to send out signals that the Bills are interested in Shanahan and Cowher if, in the end, the team has no interest in either. wouldn't that be bad P.R. when neither are signed. perhaps, the reality of it was that the Bills were, in fact, interested in both.

 

jw

I'm not sure I ever said that I thought the Bills had no interest in either coach. In fact, I'd be shocked if they did not have interest in both of them. But having interest, and thinking you have a good shot at hiring one, are two entirely different matters.

 

And to your point about TO being hired essentially by Mr. Wilson. You obviously have far better info and sources than I would ever hope to so I would not dare dispute you on this. But are you saying you think it was done for a reason other than PR, regardless of who actually pulled the trigger? Again, it is difficult to dispute you on matters involving the Bills, but I have a hard time coming to grips with that one in my head.

[Doc]

Yes some people feel this way. I have a living will that says I do not want to be kept alive by extraordinary means. This is saying I would rather die with dignity than stay alive as a vegetable and a burden to my family. I know this is the extreme case, but by extension then some people do feel that they would have the Bills flourish elsewhere rather than be a miserable failure continually in Buffalo.

 

It may not be your opinion or a very popular one here, but it is perfectly reasonable for some to feel this way.

Okay, I'll grant you that if you need to be kept "alive" under extraordinary measures, being removed from them is reasonable. I'm talking about an otherwise healthy person taking his/her own life because he/she feels things are so bad that there is no hope for the future. Is that "perfectly reasonable" behavior? That's the scenario we're really talking about here, since the Bills aren't "terminal," and if they do become terminal, they'll move away for reasons other than how well they're doing on the field.

 

And I'm sure that the majority of people who follow the Bills would cease to follow them if they move, and wouldn't care if they flourish elsewhere. I'm willing to still follow them if they move to Toronto, but anywhere else and it's "see ya!"

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

Recently there was a marathon discussion on this forum where people argued about whether Ralph is spending enough money to field a winner. Yesterday's article by Mark Gaughan adds a little reality to the assumptions some people made.

 

He indicated "In terms of cap spending, the Bills ranked 32nd in the NFL last year, at $120.8 million, according to NFL Players Association figures." For those of you who like to dispute sources, you can't get a better one than the Players' Association. They don't spin the numbers in favor of team owners. Gaughan also stated that "Up until this season, there also was a cap minimum that teams must spend. Last year it was $108 million."

 

Now factor in the salaries the Bills were forced to pay last year because of a record number of injuries (an amount they didn't expect to be that high) and they had to be close to the minimum the league forces them to spend. If we were the lowest in the league in player salaries and hired discount management, can anyone make a credible case for Ralph not being cheap... and wanting to field a winner?

 

Of course, we may never know if he was serious about paying 10 million for an elite coach, but the weight of evidence is strongly in favor of that being just the usual "spin."

Cap spending is much different than actual dollars. Using cap spending accomplishes nothing other than skew the numbers to write a story. US today has them at #12 for total payroll for 2009.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009

Edited August 23, 2010 by Baby Joe Mesi

[Doc]

Cap spending is much different than actual dollars. Using cap spending accomplishes nothing other than skew the numbers to write a story. US today has them at #12 for total payroll for 2009.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009

I agree (except I said 11th instead of 12th)