Meantime in the real Muslim world

[OCinBuffalo]

This is breathtaking in its progression.

 

Islamic law prohibits punishment before puberty. So I think you've been had.

 

But.....think of all the noncombatants that would have died correcting this.

If Iran gets nukes, we have no choice but to take them out. Iran is the #1 state supporter of terror, and has been for years. Am I supposed to believe that they won't give them to terrorists? They give everything else to terrorists, why not nukes? Am I supposed to trust you/them that they won't try to set off a nuke? what difference does it make where they set it off?

 

IF we go in and "correct" them, then I don't want to hear any whining. The Iranians have had years to "correct" themselves. IF they choose to continue on this path, and that's exactly what they have done while Obama's "engagement" strategy has failed miserably, then they are also choosing the consequences of our response.

 

There's no such thing as a "noncombatant" when we are talking nuclear war. If you choose that weapon then you choose all the terrible responses that come with it. The civilians that would be killed by an Iranian nuke remove the "noncombatant" status of those Iranian civilians that are killed by us taking that nuke away.

 

Is that really "breathtaking"? More like, simple and straightforward.

[OCinBuffalo]

That's despicable, but to say it's done in the name of Islam is simply wrong.

 

I can tell you I had sex with Jessica Alba, that doesn't make it true.

 

No where in the Koran does it say to run a little boy's arm over with a car if he steals. Adult thieves can have their arm chopped off for stealing, but they have to be adults.

Yeah, as x bendict pointed out, I got fooled by what appears to be just a regular site. My apologies.

 

And you are right about one idiot doesn't mean everybody is an idiot.

 

But, the real problem is: the non-idiots response to the idiot. I don't see many non-idiot Muslims condemning the idiots, with, for example, the same level of anger that I condemn the Catholic church for the sex abuse scandals.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, as x bendict pointed out, I got fooled by what appears to be just a regular site. My apologies.

 

And you are right about one idiot doesn't mean everybody is an idiot.

 

But, the real problem is: the non-idiots response to the idiot. I don't see many non-idiot Muslims condemning the idiots, with, for example, the same level of anger that I condemn the Catholic church for the sex abuse scandals.

Which, I'm sure, has nothing to do with the fact that the average Middle Easterner actually has to fear for their (and their family's) safety and you don't. It's really easy to sit in America and pretend you're better when you face none of the same things.

 

And I'm under the impression that you've not chosen a religion. So condemning the Catholics isn't a valid comparison, unless you are one.

[DC Tom]

No where in the Koran does it say to run a little boy's arm over with a car if he steals. Adult thieves can have their arm chopped off for stealing, but they have to be adults.

 

I thought it was just a hand...?

[Chef Jim]

Which seems counterintuitive. Is it due to increased cost of legal representation?

 

I would assume that the circus known as the appeals process is the big offender in the costs.

[The Dean]

It's a good way to reduce taxpayer expense, especially if done sooner and more often.

 

 

It might be, if the entire system was revamped but currently it costs about 3 times as much to execute someone as it does to keep them in prison for life.

 

 

Yes, it currently is more expensive to execute someone than to keep them in prison. If we are committed to execute some criminals we should work to reduce that nut, while retaining proper protections.

 

But the idea of choosing the death penalty on the basis that it is the more cost efficient punishment is beyond lunacy.

[Justice]

I thought it was just a hand...?

 

You're right, it is the hand.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You're right, it is the hand.

 

 

What's a hand, anyway?

[The Dean]

What's a hand, anyway?

 

 

Little Johnny is walking down the hall when he hears a noise from his parents room. He knocks on the door and asks his mom what’s going on.

 

“Playing cards,” she replies.

 

“Who’s your partner?” asked little johnny.

 

“Your father!”

 

Content with his answer, Little Johnny walks further down the hall towards his room when he hears the same noise coming from his sister’s room. Again, he knocks on the door and asked his sister what was she doing.

 

“Playing cards.”

 

“With who?” he asks.

 

”My boyfriend!” she says.

 

A short while later, Little Johnny’s father is walking down the hall and hears a noise coming from Little Johnny’s room. He knocks on the door and asks ”What are you doing?”

 

“Playing cards!” replied Johnny.

 

”Who’s your partner?” asked his father…

 

Little Johnny answers promptly, “With a hand like this who needs a partner?”

[Justice]

What's a hand, anyway?

 

Yes, the punishment is severe to say the least, but I agree with it. Why be soft on criminals?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yes, the punishment is severe to say the least, but I agree with it. Why be soft on criminals?

 

 

Because this isn't the year 850 AD?

[Jim in Anchorage]

This drifting into the death penalty in some US states is irrelevant to the post. You don't like it vote in state Representatives who will stop it, as several states have done. No one ever got executed, blinded, or mutilated in this country because the bible said so. Huge,Huge difference.

[DC Tom]

Because this isn't the year 850 AD?

 

We should be soft on criminals because it's not 850 AD?

 

Really, what the !@#$? Did you just up and turn into a liberal when I wasn't looking?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We should be soft on criminals because it's not 850 AD?

 

Really, what the !@#$? Did you just up and turn into a liberal when I wasn't looking?

 

Yes, that's what happened.

[OCinBuffalo]

Which, I'm sure, has nothing to do with the fact that the average Middle Easterner actually has to fear for their (and their family's) safety and you don't. It's really easy to sit in America and pretend you're better when you face none of the same things.

 

And I'm under the impression that you've not chosen a religion. So condemning the Catholics isn't a valid comparison, unless you are one.

Ok Darin, for exactly how long would you sit and deal with the BS the average Middle Easterner does? 4 maybe 5 seconds? Same with me. What makes me American is that I have exactly 0 fear facing any of the things the "average Middle Easterner" faces, and worse. Last time I checked American '= candy ass. I wouldn't take the BS off these people, and if it meant I had to die, so f'ing what? Better than living like a pissant. So, no, no pretending here. You're better off finding the pretenders amongst those who won't/haven't picked up a rifle....if you know what I mean.

 

(The better question is: how long would they want to deal with Darin? Yes, I can see it: "Darin's one man bitter bastard campaign brings down Islamic state" )

 

And yeah, I don't have kids, blah, blah, blah, so f'ing what? I am so tired of hearing that crap. The fact is condemning your kid to the slavery of serving these regimes doesn't make you any better than someone who would be willing to risk their kids lives and fight them. If anything, the person who risks his family's life is better, because at least he is trying to give them a future.

 

On the religion thing: Yeah, it's a bit tricky, I can see where this might be confusing. See, I was a Catholic by birth, not by choice. I had a serious set of issues with the church before the sex scandal(opposing the distribution of condoms in Africa in the middle of an AIDS pandemic, etc.), but that did it for me. I have determined that they need to completely resolve the sex issues and provide a clear plan for preventing future trouble, and, they need to reverse themselves on the common sense stuff like condoms to prevent disease. Until they do, they are "suspended", and I will have nothing to do with them. I won't agree to the infallibility of the Pope until he starts doing things that convinces me of it.

 

In the meantime, I am open to investigating other religions and may choose one if it makes sense, regardless of whether the Catholics get their act together or not. So, yeah, I haven't decided yet.

[Alaska Darin]

Ok Darin, for exactly how long would you sit and deal with the BS the average Middle Easterner does? 4 maybe 5 seconds?

After being over there and finding out that entire families disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again? You couldn't get me within 1000 miles of the place. The only way anything changes over there is if the people collectively rise up. The problem is every time anything gains any momentum (like in Iran), the world sits back while the government murders/imprisons/tortures people until the masses shut up and then the cycle starts anew.

Same with me. What makes me American is that I have exactly 0 fear facing any of the things the "average Middle Easterner" faces, and worse.

That's because the average American has no concept of how most of the rest of the world works.

Last time I checked American '= candy ass. I wouldn't take the BS off these people, and if it meant I had to die, so f'ing what? Better than living like a pissant.

That's because you KNOW better. They don't. They're indoctrinated. Think of them as beaten liberals.

 

It's kinda like the old story of the monkeys in the cage. There's a monkey cage with a ladder in it that leads up to a pair of bare wires. A couple of monkeys climb the ladder and get the **** shocked out of them. The rest of the monkeys now know better than to climb the ladder. The monkeys continue to procreate and the story gets passed on. After some time passes, all of the original monkeys are dead but the new generations still don't climb the ladder. Learned behavior.

So, no, no pretending here. You're better off finding the pretenders amongst those who won't/haven't picked up a rifle....if you know what I mean.

I think it's a lot easier to talk about than it is to do, especially when everyone knows someone who's disappeared, been murdered, been raped in front of them, etc. That place is so !@#$ed up that it's probably going to take 100 years to turn it around. The fact that we've picked up a rifle and spilled blood makes it easier to know that we'd certainly take a few with us when the time came but it doesn't mean you suddenly stop choosing your battles wisely.

(The better question is: how long would they want to deal with Darin? Yes, I can see it: "Darin's one man bitter bastard campaign brings down Islamic state" )

I could see that happening. That's also the reason I understand the successes that terrorist organizations have recruiting and why I subscribe to the theory of blowback. Nothing frustrates me more than the idiots who don't get the concept of people not liking the results of U.S. foreign policy and then having a willingness to do something symbolic against us. As if we'd all sit by when one of our relatives got killed by bombs from the sky or an invading force of foreigners. Please.

And yeah, I don't have kids, blah, blah, blah, so f'ing what? I am so tired of hearing that crap. The fact is condemning your kid to the slavery of serving these regimes doesn't make you any better than someone who would be willing to risk their kids lives and fight them. If anything, the person who risks his family's life is better, because at least he is trying to give them a future.

Most of them don't look at it as slavery. They really don't.

On the religion thing: Yeah, it's a bit tricky, I can see where this might be confusing. See, I was a Catholic by birth, not by choice. I had a serious set of issues with the church before the sex scandal(opposing the distribution of condoms in Africa in the middle of an AIDS pandemic, etc.), but that did it for me. I have determined that they need to completely resolve the sex issues and provide a clear plan for preventing future trouble, and, they need to reverse themselves on the common sense stuff like condoms to prevent disease. Until they do, they are "suspended", and I will have nothing to do with them. I won't agree to the infallibility of the Pope until he starts doing things that convinces me of it.

 

In the meantime, I am open to investigating other religions and may choose one if it makes sense, regardless of whether the Catholics get their act together or not. So, yeah, I haven't decided yet.

As honest an answer as this board has seen.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I could see that happening. That's also the reason I understand the successes that terrorist organizations have recruiting and why I subscribe to the theory of blowback. Nothing frustrates me more than the idiots who don't get the concept of people not liking the results of U.S. foreign policy and then having a willingness to do something symbolic against us. As if we'd all sit by when one of our relatives got killed by bombs from the sky or an invading force of foreigners. Please.

And what US foreign policy brought on 9/11? I don't recall invading anyone prior to that. I think you are hooking up with the wrong team. Oh right, we support Israel and eat pork and don't hide our woman under rocks and we buy oil and have a military base in Saudi Arabia. That alone should make us a target.

I prefer US foreign policy be made in Washington, not a hut in Afghanistan.

[....lybob]

And what US foreign policy brought on 9/11? I don't recall invading anyone prior to that. I think you are hooking up with the wrong team. Oh right, we support Israel and eat pork and don't hide our woman under rocks and we buy oil and have a military base in Saudi Arabia. That alone should make us a target.

I prefer US foreign policy be made in Washington, not a hut in Afghanistan.

 

"* 1949: CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.

 

* 1953: CIA helps overthrow the democratically-elected Mossadeq government in Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a quarter-century of dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi.

 

* 1956: U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt receives Eastern bloc arms.

 

1956: Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt. U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of NATO allies severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.

 

* 1958: U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability."

 

* 1960s (early): U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.

 

* 1963: U.S. reported to give Iragi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam Hussein) names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.

 

* 1967-: U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC Resolution 244, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the 1967 war.

 

* 1970: Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. prepare to intervene on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.

 

* 1972: U.S. blocks Sadat's efforts to reach a peace agreement with Egypt.

 

* 1973: U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.

 

* 1973-75: U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq. When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge. Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be confused with missionary work."

 

* 1978-79: Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah. U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him to act forcefully. Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save the Shah, but to no avail.

 

* 1979-88: U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before Soviet invasion. Over the next decade U.S. provides more than $3 billion in arms and aid.

 

* 1980-88: Iran-lraq war. When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action to condemn the invasion. U.S. removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq. U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 U.S. provides arms directly (though secretly) to Iran. U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq. Iraq uses chemical weapons in 1984; U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq. 1987 U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Guff, taking Iraq's side; an aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.

 

* 1981, 1986: U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya with the clear purpose of provoking Qaddafi. In 1981, a Libyan plane fires a missile and two Libyan planes were subsequently shot down. In 1986, Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations. When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing two, the U.S. charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.

 

* 1982: U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, where more than 10,000 civilians were killed. U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S. weapons except in self-defense.

 

* 1983: U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping force; intervene on one side of a civil war. Withdraw after suicide bombing of marine barracks.

 

* 1984: U.S.-backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.

 

* 1988: Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and uses chemical weapons against them. The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.

 

* 1990-91: U.S. rejects diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait (for example, rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of Kuwait and Palestine). U.S. Ieads international coalition in war against Iraq. Civilian infrastructure targeted. To promote "stability" U.S. refuses to aid uprisings by Shi'ites in the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter flights.

 

* 1991-: Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq. U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them. Hundreds of thousands die. Though Security Council stated sanctions were to be lifted once Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended, Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as Saddam remains in power. Sanctions strengthen Saddam's position.

 

* 1993-: U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self-defense against an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months earlier.

 

* 1998: U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over weapons inspections, even though Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.

 

* 1998: U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare. U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge. "

 

 

 

But the main reasons of course was U.S. support of Israel and Military bases in Saudi Arabia if you were to believe OBL

[drnykterstein]

http://i.imgur.com/tBqNe.jpg

[Jim in Anchorage]

I am not going to refute your entire cut and paste, yeah the US acted in its best interests[ok by me] but going by your logic should not Polish people be strapping on suicide vests and killing Innocent Germans and Russians? After all, they were slaughtered by the thousands in WWII by those country's.

But of course that is not nearly as generational venom producing as not supporting a UN resolution.

I am starting to think this Muslim "eye for a eye" thing is more prevalent than I thought, including the very people whose eyes are looking at the knife.