SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 paraphrasing:Neither will get into the HOF. Neither deserves to get into the HOF. Both should what though? Sorry, can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say. Ok I guess it was confusing to a few people haha. What I mean is both SHOULD be hall of famers based on their career resumes. But from a human standpoint, I don't feel sorry for either guy's tarnished legacy. Break the rules, you don't deserve anything. In other words, they'd get my vote based on my own interpretation of "greatness", but I can't knock anybody who doesn't vote for them.
DC Tom Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 Yeah, my point was that Clemens should be a hall of famer based on his career, but IMO he's surrendered his right to say that he deserves it. I know...my point was that if you're going to make his illegal substance use a factor, you'd have to exclude almost everyone else from the past 20 years. Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, because use was so prevalent through the league that he hardly had an unfair advantage (and what's more, the league chose to look the other way then, so why punish him now?) You're certainly welcome to disagree...as long as you recognize that the argument can apply to most other superstars of Clemens' era.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I know...my point was that if you're going to make his illegal substance use a factor, you'd have to exclude almost everyone else from the past 20 years. Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, because use was so prevalent through the league that he hardly had an unfair advantage (and what's more, the league chose to look the other way then, so why punish him now?) You're certainly welcome to disagree...as long as you recognize that the argument can apply to most other superstars of Clemens' era. Like I said, I'd personally vote Clemens into the hall as well, along with Bonds and A-Rod. I just recognize that they're each complicit in their own demise, no matter how many others were using. The sticking point, unfortunately, is that we just don't know the extent of the use. It could be 75% of players like some have suggested, or it could be a more modest 25%. I'd lean closer to the larger extreme, but we just don't know. So, pretty much all we have to go on is that the guys who DID get caught are guilty. I think that's the perspective that a lot of voters are using.
Pete Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I recall Clemens pitching in a playoff (world series?) game early in his career for the Sox. He came out in war paint and screamed at the ump whenever he called a ball. I believe he was thrown out in the second inning. I would wager money that he was on roids back then. That performance was pure roid rage IMO
The Dean Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I recall Clemens pitching in a playoff (world series?) game early in his career for the Sox. He came out in war paint and screamed at the ump whenever he called a ball. I believe he was thrown out in the second inning. I would wager money that he was on roids back then. That performance was pure roid rage IMO I was at that game. It was an ALCS game in Oakland (if this is the one you are referring to). It was total BS, IMO, and I'm not a big Roger fan. We had great seats and had no idea what had happened. Whatever Roger did to get tossed was not evident from the stands. He must have whispered "I ass bumped your wife last night" to the ump, because I can't think of anything else that would have justified an ejection in that kind of game, if it wasn't blatant enough to see from my seat. Now, after getting tossed, he went a bit nuts. But I understand that.
Cugalabanza Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I heard on the radio some of Clemens' testimony replayed. The part where he's going on about, "If I'm guilty of anything, it's being too nice of a guy..." What a total crotch eating ass monkey. I always thought of him as a dick and now I know I was right. Arrogance like this is unbelievable. I hope he gets serious jail time. Douchecock!
thebug Posted August 20, 2010 Posted August 20, 2010 I heard on the radio some of Clemens' testimony replayed. The part where he's going on about, "If I'm guilty of anything, it's being too nice of a guy..." What a total crotch eating ass monkey. I always thought of him as a dick and now I know I was right. Arrogance like this is unbelievable. I hope he gets serious jail time. Douchecock! Just about spit my beer out.
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