From Tim Graham's interview with Jason Taylor

[Lothar]

Schobel's situation came up in a conversation I had with Taylor on Saturday morning. Nobody terrorized AFC East quarterbacks more over the past decade than they did. Taylor is the NFL's active sacks leader with all but 3.5 of his 127.5 career sacks occurring with the Miami Dolphins. Schobel's 74 career sacks -- all with the Bills -- are second in the division.

 

Schobel also tops the list of sacks on Patriots quarterback Tom Brady with 12. Taylor is next with 9.5 sacks.

 

Despite Schobel's production and two Pro Bowl selections, Buffalo had only one winning season since it drafted him in 2001.

 

"That's sad," Taylor said. "As a competitor and as an athlete, you understand what they go through. Nobody likes to be on the losing end of things.

 

"He's such a good player, plays the game so hard and always laid it on the line. He's one of those guys that we around the league look at and respect the way the kid works. Everybody has a boiling point. I guess he hit his."

 

That's when I mentioned to Taylor that as bleak as the Bills' outlook was for 2010, they also lost running backs Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch to injuries on the opening drive of Friday night's preseason opener.

 

"Yikes," said Taylor, his eyes bulging at the news. "You never count anybody out in this league, though, but goodness gracious."

Well down the page

 

Well, the Bills aren't thought of too highly among our division foes ... only way to go is up.

[Lothar]

p.s. per TG's latest comments, while I'm no fan of Favre I've lost all respect for Bruschi ... just flappin' his jaws to be heard. Didn't Favre have the same doubts last year? What's your point TB? I think he just doesn't like someone surpassing his own 'God-like' status.

[Doc]

Yet despite "as bleak as the Bills' outlook was for 2010," they'll still at least split with the Jets and Dols.

[CosmicBills]

Yet despite "as bleak as the Bills' outlook was for 2010," they'll still at least split with the Jets and Dols.

That's insanely optimistic. Not impossible, but this team might be the worst team the Bills have put on the field since the 3-13 2001 team.

[Doc]

That's insanely optimistic. Not impossible, but this team might be the worst team the Bills have put on the field since the 3-13 2001 team.

With how dysfunctional last year's team was, and seeing them split with the Jets and Dols and come within a whisker of beating the Pats, I am fairly confident in my prediction. When it comes to division rivals, the better team on paper doesn't always win.

[eball]

That's insanely optimistic. Not impossible, but this team might be the worst team the Bills have put on the field since the 3-13 2001 team.

And you're insanely pessimistic. The pluses far outweigh the minuses when you're comparing last season to this season. That doesn't necessarily mean the team will win MORE games than a year ago, but there's very little reason to believe they'd win three fewer.

[CosmicBills]

And you're insanely pessimistic. The pluses far outweigh the minuses when you're comparing last season to this season. That doesn't necessarily mean the team will win MORE games than a year ago, but there's very little reason to believe they'd win three fewer.

What pluses outweigh the minuses? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just curious.

 

The way I see it:

 

Cons:

-- New schemes on both sides of the ball, including a scheme that the defense does not have the proper personnel to play (yet) will at least require a half a season to adjust to, if not more.

 

-- An offensive line that is worse than last year as far as talent and depth. Outside of our young guards, there's a collection of stiffs filling roles. Losing Butler will hurt more than people realize at the moment.

 

-- A WR corps that does not have a bona fide number 2 WR. Instead they have 1 number 1 and a bunch of number 4 WRs. Not to mention half the young guys expected to make an impact are now dinged up.

 

-- The worst QB situation in the league outside of Oakland. Fitz is a scrub, Edwards is damaged goods and Brown and Brohm are unknowns.

 

-- A large percentage of the defense playing out of position or brand spanking new positions.

 

-- The worst LB corps in the league (though this was true last year too). Outside of Poz (who himself is vastly overrated by fans but is still a competent LB), there aren't any LBs on the roster that strike fear in opponents.

 

-- A tougher overall schedule.

 

Pros:

 

-- No Jauron. This can't be over stated.

 

-- Brohm and Brown are unknowns and one could potentially be a diamond in the rough.

 

-- One of the better defensive secondaries in the league.

 

-- Very deep at HB with two pro-bowlers and a rookie with upside.

 

... That's it. That's all I can find for the pros.

 

This team has a serious dearth in talent, alarmingly so at several key areas (OT, QB, WR, LB, DE, DT). That's not being pessimistic, that's being realistic. Could they surprise the hell out of me and everyone else? Absolutely, that's why they play the games on Sundays. But I'm not holding my breath.

[dollars 2 donuts]

It really doesn't seem that bad what he said.

 

I'll be honest, I would imagine it would be kind of frustrating to be in one place for almost 10 years and never make the playoffs.

 

If memory serves me I believe Larry Centers played for 3 different teams through the first 10/11 years of his career (including Buffalo) and had never experienced even a winning season before winning a Super Bowl with New England.

 

So, yeah, its kind of nice when guys are good and hang around a long time in this league get SOMETHING out of it from a team standpoint.

 

 

EDIT: I know my comment isn't directly related to the OPs point, I'm just stating, when you see a team so bad for so long, even other guys around the league think that, man, that sucks.

[DanInUticaTampa]

The way I see it:

 

Cons:

 

-- An offensive line that is worse than last year as far as talent and depth. Outside of our young guards, there's a collection of stiffs filling roles. Losing Butler will hurt more than people realize at the moment.

 

How would missing butler THIS year be different than last year? Last year, butler was IR almost all season. We were a better team with him, but comparing to last year, he wasn't exactly around either.

 

The line is better than last year. The interior will (Wood, hangartner, levitre) have had more snaps and time to gell. Conrell Green is better at RT than Chambers and whatever other crap we had last year. Then there is LT, which still sucks and is dragging the oline down. But this line should be more improved than last year.

[stuckincincy]

What pluses outweigh the minuses? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just curious.

 

They also square off against the AFC North and the NFC North this coming season. Both contain decent clubs.

[BB2004]

That's insanely optimistic. Not impossible, but this team might be the worst team the Bills have put on the field since the 3-13 2001 team.

 

I agree. Take a look at the differences between that team and this team. The main difference in my opinion is that we were pretty aware that 2001 would be a rebuilding year after the 1990's and the last year of Wade Phillips as our head coach. 10 years later, it seems like we are starting again from square one.

[SuperKillerRobots]

I agree. Take a look at the differences between that team and this team. The main difference in my opinion is that we were pretty aware that 2001 would be a rebuilding year after the 1990's and the last year of Wade Phillips as our head coach. 10 years later, it seems like we are starting again from square one.

 

I don't think I can consider it starting from square one unless we have a new QB in the picture. Made this is square 1.5 - or .5.

[eball]

Thanks for responding. I'll comment in-line below.

 

What pluses outweigh the minuses? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just curious.

 

The way I see it:

 

Cons:

-- New schemes on both sides of the ball, including a scheme that the defense does not have the proper personnel to play (yet) will at least require a half a season to adjust to, if not more.

 

A new scheme on offense can only be considered a plus. As for the defense, the secondary is a huge strength that is now deeper (players returning from injury), and specific talent was brought in to address the new responsibilities in the 3-4. I guess we just disagree here.

 

-- An offensive line that is worse than last year as far as talent and depth. Outside of our young guards, there's a collection of stiffs filling roles. Losing Butler will hurt more than people realize at the moment.

 

How can the line be worse? The two guards are a year older, and you forget Bell was considered a rising talent before being injured. Green is certainly a serviceable RT.

 

-- A WR corps that does not have a bona fide number 2 WR. Instead they have 1 number 1 and a bunch of number 4 WRs. Not to mention half the young guys expected to make an impact are now dinged up.

 

You're taking the most pessimistic view. I think reality is probably a little rosier. Odds are Parrish will finally be utilized correctly, and either Johnson, Hardy, or Nelson will emerge as a legitimate threat opposite Evans.

 

-- The worst QB situation in the league outside of Oakland. Fitz is a scrub, Edwards is damaged goods and Brown and Brohm are unknowns.

 

Hard to disagree with you here, but again, how is it WORSE than last year? I'll fall back to my belief that the improved coaching of Gailey and staff will get more production out of these guys.

 

-- A large percentage of the defense playing out of position or brand spanking new positions.

 

What's your definition of "large percentage?" The secondary is intact (that's 4/11). Poz is still a MLB. Williams is still a DT. Edwards was brought in as a 3-4 DE. Davis was brought in as a 4-3 LB. That leaves 3 out of 11 positions as "out of position" or "brand spanking new."

 

-- The worst LB corps in the league (though this was true last year too). Outside of Poz (who himself is vastly overrated by fans but is still a competent LB), there aren't any LBs on the roster that strike fear in opponents.

 

Again, this is the most pessimistic view possible, and even you admit it's not WORSE than last year. Davis is an upgrade and an exact fit in the defense. Again, I'll counter that the "realistic" view is rosier than your prognosis.

 

-- A tougher overall schedule.

 

Hard to say. On paper it looks that way, but teams always surprise (in both ways) every year. The home schedule actually looks pretty weak.

 

Pros:

 

-- No Jauron. This can't be over stated.

 

I'll go one step farther. No dysfunctional offensive coaching staff.

 

-- Brohm and Brown are unknowns and one could potentially be a diamond in the rough.

 

-- One of the better defensive secondaries in the league.

 

-- Very deep at HB with two pro-bowlers and a rookie with upside.

 

... That's it. That's all I can find for the pros.

 

The coaching change and different mentality are impossible to assess, but all agree they are an improvement over the previous regime.

 

This team has a serious dearth in talent, alarmingly so at several key areas (OT, QB, WR, LB, DE, DT). That's not being pessimistic, that's being realistic. Could they surprise the hell out of me and everyone else? Absolutely, that's why they play the games on Sundays. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

OT is unproven -- that doesn't mean the talent isn't there. Same at WR. How can you say there's a lack of talent at DT? Williams is proven, and Troup is a 2nd rounder with a boatload of potential. You haven't said anything to change my mind. You need to acknowledge that your definition of "realism" is tainted. And please notice that nowhere have I predicted that the Bills will be world beaters -- just that they won't be the embarrassment of the league so many of you "realists" suggest, and they are on the right track.

[mpl6876]

Thanks for responding. I'll comment in-line below.

 

That's more like it Eball. A solid post and response without the insulting attacks. I look forward to reading more of your post like this.

 

This board can do without all the nonsense personal attacks.

[CosmicBills]

Thanks for responding. I'll comment in-line below.

 

 

That's more like it Eball. A solid post and response without the insulting attacks. I look forward to reading more of your post like this.

 

This board can do without all the nonsense personal attacks.

That's how it always should be! eball knows me enough to know that I'm not pissing just to piss ... okay, that's a poor analogy. Let's see if I can rebound.

 

Allow me to respond to a couple points -- but overall your points are on the money.

 

* I think the O-Line is worse because I believe Green is worse than Butler. By a lot. And even worse than Walker. While Wood and Levitre got an extra year, Bell didn't because he was injured and hasn't shown the ability to stay on the field. The lack of depth along the line is worse than last year ... so add all that up and I'm not sold. But you think more of Green and the additions than I do and it's fair enough. It's all subjective at this point anyway.

 

* I disagree that I am taking a pessimistic view of the WR corps -- look at the numbers. Outside of Lee, the other 9 WRs on the roster have a combined 136 NFL receptions. 100 of those are Roscoe. Take his out, and you're looking at 8 guys with 36 catches between them and no one has played more than 16 NFL games in their career. Roscoe MIGHT be able to finally be utilized in the slot -- great. But he's not Josh Reed. Steve Johnson, Hardy, and the rest have not proven themselves even when given (limited) opportunities. Could they produce? Absolutely. But there isn't an NFL team with LESS experience at the WR position today. Not a one.

 

* The New scheme IS a great step in the right direction and I am excited about it. But, it's going to take more than one season to implement it. Could it click in one season? Absolutely. Is it likely? No. Factor in the lack of skills at QB, WR and OL and you're asking a lot for the offense to suddenly turn into a scoring machine, you know?

 

* The QB position is not worse, you're right. It's at best the same. But either way, it's not good enough to win consistently.

 

* The large percentage is probably an exaggeration, so well played. But the secondary is all learning a new scheme (if not out of position), Mitchell is playing inside, Poz is playing inside in a different scheme, Stroud, Maybin, Kelsay and company are all playing new positions. It's a big change going on on defense. But it's the RIGHT change. Still, it's going to take time. Some of these guys are vets that have played in the Tampa 2 (or some variation) their entire career. Shifting to the 3-4 is not easy.

[mpl6876]

That's how it always should be! eball knows me enough to know that I'm not pissing just to piss ... okay, that's a poor analogy. Let's see if I can rebound.

 

Allow me to respond to a couple points -- but overall your points are on the money.

 

* I think the O-Line is worse because I believe Green is worse than Butler. By a lot. And even worse than Walker. While Wood and Levitre got an extra year, Bell didn't because he was injured and hasn't shown the ability to stay on the field. The lack of depth along the line is worse than last year ... so add all that up and I'm not sold. But you think more of Green and the additions than I do and it's fair enough. It's all subjective at this point anyway.

 

* I disagree that I am taking a pessimistic view of the WR corps -- look at the numbers. Outside of Lee, the other 9 WRs on the roster have a combined 136 NFL receptions. 100 of those are Roscoe. Take his out, and you're looking at 8 guys with 36 catches between them and no one has played more than 16 NFL games in their career. Roscoe MIGHT be able to finally be utilized in the slot -- great. But he's not Josh Reed. Steve Johnson, Hardy, and the rest have not proven themselves even when given (limited) opportunities. Could they produce? Absolutely. But there isn't an NFL team with LESS experience at the WR position today. Not a one.

 

* The New scheme IS a great step in the right direction and I am excited about it. But, it's going to take more than one season to implement it. Could it click in one season? Absolutely. Is it likely? No. Factor in the lack of skills at QB, WR and OL and you're asking a lot for the offense to suddenly turn into a scoring machine, you know?

 

* The QB position is not worse, you're right. It's at best the same. But either way, it's not good enough to win consistently.

 

* The large percentage is probably an exaggeration, so well played. But the secondary is all learning a new scheme (if not out of position), Mitchell is playing inside, Poz is playing inside in a different scheme, Stroud, Maybin, Kelsay and company are all playing new positions. It's a big change going on on defense. But it's the RIGHT change. Still, it's going to take time. Some of these guys are vets that have played in the Tampa 2 (or some variation) their entire career. Shifting to the 3-4 is not easy.

 

Solid rebuttal and I think you nailed it. Great feedback.

[eball]

That's more like it Eball. A solid post and response without the insulting attacks. I look forward to reading more of your post like this.

 

This board can do without all the nonsense personal attacks.

Are you a moderator or something? Seriously. Look, I don't need to fight with you, but I also don't need you telling me whether I've posted something appropriate or not. I've been around here a fair amount of time and think I have a pretty good handle on what makes this place tick. You haven't earned the right to be the arbiter of what constitutes proper decorum.

[eball]

That's how it always should be! eball knows me enough to know that I'm not pissing just to piss ... okay, that's a poor analogy. Let's see if I can rebound.

 

Allow me to respond to a couple points -- but overall your points are on the money.

 

* I think the O-Line is worse because I believe Green is worse than Butler. By a lot. And even worse than Walker. While Wood and Levitre got an extra year, Bell didn't because he was injured and hasn't shown the ability to stay on the field. The lack of depth along the line is worse than last year ... so add all that up and I'm not sold. But you think more of Green and the additions than I do and it's fair enough. It's all subjective at this point anyway.

 

Right. We'll just have to see.

 

* I disagree that I am taking a pessimistic view of the WR corps -- look at the numbers. Outside of Lee, the other 9 WRs on the roster have a combined 136 NFL receptions. 100 of those are Roscoe. Take his out, and you're looking at 8 guys with 36 catches between them and no one has played more than 16 NFL games in their career. Roscoe MIGHT be able to finally be utilized in the slot -- great. But he's not Josh Reed. Steve Johnson, Hardy, and the rest have not proven themselves even when given (limited) opportunities. Could they produce? Absolutely. But there isn't an NFL team with LESS experience at the WR position today. Not a one.

 

Your view certainly IS pessimistic. You equate young/unproven with lack of talent. There's plenty of talent there; it's a question of whether it is utilized.

 

* The New scheme IS a great step in the right direction and I am excited about it. But, it's going to take more than one season to implement it. Could it click in one season? Absolutely. Is it likely? No. Factor in the lack of skills at QB, WR and OL and you're asking a lot for the offense to suddenly turn into a scoring machine, you know?

 

But they may have an above average running game, which can solve a lot of problems. And I know this is a sore spot with you, but drafting Spiller was just the sort of thing they need to create some offensive excitement.

 

* The QB position is not worse, you're right. It's at best the same. But either way, it's not good enough to win consistently.

 

I don't have enough information to make that judgment. I know Gailey has been successful elsewhere with "lesser" talent, so if he can't get something out of these guys I'll have no choice but to agree with you.

 

* The large percentage is probably an exaggeration, so well played. But the secondary is all learning a new scheme (if not out of position), Mitchell is playing inside, Poz is playing inside in a different scheme, Stroud, Maybin, Kelsay and company are all playing new positions. It's a big change going on on defense. But it's the RIGHT change. Still, it's going to take time. Some of these guys are vets that have played in the Tampa 2 (or some variation) their entire career. Shifting to the 3-4 is not easy.

[Thurman#1]

Schobel's situation came up in a conversation I had with Taylor on Saturday morning. Nobody terrorized AFC East quarterbacks more over the past decade than they did. Taylor is the NFL's active sacks leader with all but 3.5 of his 127.5 career sacks occurring with the Miami Dolphins. Schobel's 74 career sacks -- all with the Bills -- are second in the division.

 

Schobel also tops the list of sacks on Patriots quarterback Tom Brady with 12. Taylor is next with 9.5 sacks.

 

Despite Schobel's production and two Pro Bowl selections, Buffalo had only one winning season since it drafted him in 2001.

 

"That's sad," Taylor said. "As a competitor and as an athlete, you understand what they go through. Nobody likes to be on the losing end of things.

 

"He's such a good player, plays the game so hard and always laid it on the line. He's one of those guys that we around the league look at and respect the way the kid works. Everybody has a boiling point. I guess he hit his."

 

That's when I mentioned to Taylor that as bleak as the Bills' outlook was for 2010, they also lost running backs Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch to injuries on the opening drive of Friday night's preseason opener.

 

"Yikes," said Taylor, his eyes bulging at the news. "You never count anybody out in this league, though, but goodness gracious."

Well down the page

 

Well, the Bills aren't thought of too highly among our division foes ... only way to go is up.

 

 

 

Yup, the only way is up, but it could be fast or it could be slow.

 

Expect slow.

[Thurman#1]

Yet despite "as bleak as the Bills' outlook was for 2010," they'll still at least split with the Jets and Dols.

 

 

 

Doc, I didn't quite laugh out loud, but you definitely had me cracking a huge smile there.

 

Thanks.