[please fix subject]O-line

[timba]

Not sure if you and I were watching the same game. I watched and rewatched the first 2-3 offensive series for the Bills focusing on LT and RG. I thought Meredith did just fine and was actually dominant on a couple of plays. In fact it was one of the few things that encouraged me about the game.

 

The game I watched was Friday vs. Washington. I haven't rewatched the game but I know I was not impressed. He was the one playing LT correct? What I recall seeing was him getting decent initial contact but guys being able slide off and get around him on the outside.

[Maddog69]

and we averaged over 8 yards per carry on the ground ( opponent 3.4 )

 

Washington ran the ball 41 times to our 18 and we still out rushed them,

 

 

an actual (big) positive from the first game, hmmm, what do you know...

 

Those numbers are skewed by the one long TD carry by Bell and by the fact that Washington was up by 30 points and was more than happy to allow us to keep running the ball and burning time off the clock. Another example that maybe Ol' Chan isn't any better of a Coach than DJ.

Other examples include:

-Putting Trent at the top of the QB pecking order. Anybody who has watched him play knows that he sucks. If the other guys on the roster are not any better, Chan and Buddy should have gone out and brought in someone else. That completely undermines their credibility for me and removes or lessens any benefit of the doubt I was giving them.

-Wasting a timeout to try to pull the Skins offsides. Pathetic

-Taking the BIlls defense from last year which was pretty decent (and was definitely not the reason the team sucked) and completely overhauling it. As part of the overhaul, putting almost every player on the defense into new positions, most of which they have no experience at and no skills to do.

 

I am tired of so many people on this board accepting this crap and making excuses. The Bills are terrible right now. No legitimate GM was brought in to fix it and no legitimate HC was willing to even consider coming here for more than a minute. Now we have a 70yr old NFL scout as GM and a scrap heap NFL/College HC. This team is a joke and so are many of the fans.

 

P.S. - I thought the 2 new Strength and Conditioning coaches and the tough practices were supposed to eliminate all of the injuries. Maybe those weren't Jauron's fault after all.

 

The grass is not always greener, Folks. Different is not necessarily better. Ralph simply took his rusty '91 Taurus and threw a new coat of paint on it and so many of you suckers fell for it.

 

The Bills will not win more than 4 games this year. But that's great, right? Because we will be able to draft a "Franchise QB", who will take 2-3 years to learn the NFL before we will even know if he is any good or not.

[Doc]

How do you get sacked or hurried when you throw the ball 5 yards downfield? I don't know what you were watching but from my point of view the line couldn't give him enough time to even look downfield. We can debate about the oline, QB, pass rush all we want but the truth is it all needs major improvements in personnel.

Trent rarely looks downfield period. That's the problem.

Alright, maybe consistent wasn't the right word but it was more often than it should. I won't excuse the poor play but I do accept your reasoning.

Orakpo is a pass rusher, and a good one at that, so he's going to keep coming. But just because he's around the QB, it doesn't mean that he's getting pressure per se.

 

Have to say it Doc. You are the king of making excuses for this franchise/team. It's still a team with 10 season minus a playoff appearance and it appears that this streak will continue. Even when healthy the team has zero depth at all 3 OL positions. Their principal backups at G are Kyle Calloway and Kirk Chambers. The swing OT is Meredith, providing Bell is the starter and vice versa if he doesn't. I would wager those three players would be on the fringe of even making most other teams.

 

Taking flyers on late round picks, UDFA's and other teams PS rejects is not how to build an OL. And at the money position of OT, it rarely works.

They addressed the interior of the OL in last year's draft. And there were no great prospects available at LT last year when the Bills turn came to draft, and even the guys taken in front of their position have largely been disappointing (they were set at RT with Butler, who got injured and then retired, and also had Walker at that time, who could have gone back to RT). This past draft again the prospects weren't all that great, and none of them, outside of Trent Williams (and probably Okung, but they were taken 4th and 6th overall), is starting at LT.

[Guest dog14787]

Those numbers are skewed by the one long TD carry by Bell and by the fact that Washington was up by 30 points and was more than happy to allow us to keep running the ball and burning time off the clock. Another example that maybe Ol' Chan isn't any better of a Coach than DJ.

Other examples include:

-Putting Trent at the top of the QB pecking order. Anybody who has watched him play knows that he sucks. If the other guys on the roster are not any better, Chan and Buddy should have gone out and brought in someone else. That completely undermines their credibility for me and removes or lessens any benefit of the doubt I was giving them.

-Wasting a timeout to try to pull the Skins offsides. Pathetic

-Taking the BIlls defense from last year which was pretty decent (and was definitely not the reason the team sucked) and completely overhauling it. As part of the overhaul, putting almost every player on the defense into new positions, most of which they have no experience at and no skills to do.

 

I am tired of so many people on this board accepting this crap and making excuses. The Bills are terrible right now. No legitimate GM was brought in to fix it and no legitimate HC was willing to even consider coming here for more than a minute. Now we have a 70yr old NFL scout as GM and a scrap heap NFL/College HC. This team is a joke and so are many of the fans.

 

P.S. - I thought the 2 new Strength and Conditioning coaches and the tough practices were supposed to eliminate all of the injuries. Maybe those weren't Jauron's fault after all.

 

The grass is not always greener, Folks. Different is not necessarily better. Ralph simply took his rusty '91 Taurus and threw a new coat of paint on it and so many of you suckers fell for it.

 

The Bills will not win more than 4 games this year. But that's great, right? Because we will be able to draft a "Franchise QB", who will take 2-3 years to learn the NFL before we will even know if he is any good or not.

 

I missed the TD run, (the fun of streaming) wasn't it just a 24 yarder, seems like I remember reading, I hardly call that something that would skew the numbers, but yes, you would need some longer runs to get the average up so high.

 

We haven't seen nothing yet because CJ Spiller is just getting started...

[timba]

Trent rarely looks downfield period. That's the problem.

 

Orakpo is a pass rusher, and a good one at that, so he's going to keep coming. But just because he's around the QB, it doesn't mean that he's getting pressure per se.

 

 

They addressed the interior of the OL in last year's draft. And there were no great prospects available at LT last year when the Bills turn came to draft, and even the guys taken in front of their position have largely been disappointing (they were set at RT with Butler, who got injured and then retired, and also had Walker at that time, who could have gone back to RT). This past draft again the prospects weren't all that great, and none of them, outside of Trent Williams (and probably Okung, but they were taken 4th and 6th overall), is starting at LT.

 

I agree that he's a good pass rusher and I agree that just being around a QB isn't a pressure. When your QB is getting up off the ground more often than not, he's being pressured.

[Maddog69]

I missed the TD run, (the fun of streaming) wasn't it just a 24 yarder seems like I remember reading, I hardly call that something that would skew the numbers, but yes you would need some longer runs to get the average up so high.

 

Chad Simpson also had a 43yd run in garbage time.

[BillsVet]

They addressed the interior of the OL in last year's draft. And there were no great prospects available at LT last year when the Bills turn came to draft, and even the guys taken in front of their position have largely been disappointing (they were set at RT with Butler, who got injured and then retired, and also had Walker at that time, who could have gone back to RT). This past draft again the prospects weren't all that great, and none of them, outside of Trent Williams (and probably Okung, but they were taken 4th and 6th overall), is starting at LT.

 

They addressed the OL because they had no other starting caliber guards and were forced to draft two high in 2009. It doesn't excuse the fact that their depth this season consists of more UDFA's, and late round picks with no experience. Apparently Chester Pitts and a few others were too expensive to provide interior depth should an inevitable injury occur.

 

There's a trend here, and it's a lack of foresight from the front office. Was it necessary to select McKelvin in 2008? Not really, but it'd be real nice to have a Ryan Clady (yes, he's injured) rather than clearance rack caliber OT's like Bell, Meredith, and Green. They knew that Peters would be an issue, yet they did nothing to insure themselves against a holdout, which they knew was coming.

 

It's real easy to lose 10 years running. But it's going to be a lot harder for you to keep making excuses for a moribund franchise. I suppose you'll say later this season that it was a rebuilding campaign anyway. That's a defeatist mentality.

[Guest dog14787]

Chad Simpson also had a 43yd run in garbage time.

 

 

most of the game was garbage time

 

 

Without the two carries(no reason to remove them) we still averaged a very respectable 4.9 yards a carry,

 

which equates to first downs,

[Sisyphean Bills]

They addressed the OL because they had no other starting caliber guards and were forced to draft two high in 2009. It doesn't excuse the fact that their depth this season consists of more UDFA's, and late round picks with no experience. Apparently Chester Pitts and a few others were too expensive to provide interior depth should an inevitable injury occur.

 

There's a trend here, and it's a lack of foresight from the front office. Was it necessary to select McKelvin in 2008? Not really, but it'd be real nice to have a Ryan Clady (yes, he's injured) rather than clearance rack caliber OT's like Bell, Meredith, and Green. They knew that Peters would be an issue, yet they did nothing to insure themselves against a holdout, which they knew was coming.

 

It's real easy to lose 10 years running. But it's going to be a lot harder for you to keep making excuses for a moribund franchise. I suppose you'll say later this season that it was a rebuilding campaign anyway. That's a defeatist mentality.

I know what you mean, but it is actually not easy to be so incompetent and put up a front that you are trying. I dare say, it is hard to think the Bills are serious about winning given the results. One has to make an overwhelming overabundance of bad decisions to be playoff-less for a decade. That's because given the salary cap, free agency, the draft, etc. it is fairly routine for teams to bounce back and have a season here and there where they reach the playoffs. Only the Lions and Bills are this bad. In comparison, more different franchises have won Super Bowls in the last decade.

 

Who knows, but the notion that the Bills will be built (in essence) exclusively through the draft may cause the owner to lose his patience yet again. It's definitely not the quickest route and it may not ever reach fruition given the owner's age.

[sfbillsfan2]

The game I watched was Friday vs. Washington. I haven't rewatched the game but I know I was not impressed. He was the one playing LT correct? What I recall seeing was him getting decent initial contact but guys being able slide off and get around him on the outside.

 

Yes it was the Washington game. I don't want to split hairs with you and I understand the point you are making. One play in particular caused me to have a different view of Meredith than you did. Unfortunately I erased my tape of the game but I believe it was on a pass play to Lynch in the left flat where London Fletcher tackles Lynch and drives him out of bounds. Look at the replay and watch how Meredith pushes the pass rusher to the ground with one arm. It was very impressive.

 

At any rate, I appreciate your passion for the Bills.

[timba]

Yes it was the Washington game. I don't want to split hairs with you and I understand the point you are making. One play in particular caused me to have a different view of Meredith than you did. Unfortunately I erased my tape of the game but I believe it was on a pass play to Lynch in the left flat where London Fletcher tackles Lynch and drives him out of bounds. Look at the replay and watch how Meredith pushes the pass rusher to the ground with one arm. It was very impressive.

 

At any rate, I appreciate your passion for the Bills.

 

I could just be way too pessimistic to recall the good, but I'm glad it's there. I hope to see more of what you describe than what I remember! We pessimists need balance from the optimists to remind us it's not all dark and dreary.

 

If I came off as attacking you personally at all I do apologize. It is much easier to discuss when you're not attacking or being attacked by the person you're talking with. I can't fault anybody who enjoys football and specifically the Bills as much as I do, even if our opinions differ.

[sfbillsfan2]

I could just be way too pessimistic to recall the good, but I'm glad it's there. I hope to see more of what you describe than what I remember! We pessimists need balance from the optimists to remind us it's not all dark and dreary.

 

If I came off as attacking you personally at all I do apologize. It is much easier to discuss when you're not attacking or being attacked by the person you're talking with. I can't fault anybody who enjoys football and specifically the Bills as much as I do, even if our opinions differ.

 

Timba,

 

Never felt you were attacking me so no worries. It was a lousy and disappointing game to watch for all of us. I'm hopeful that with a number of returning starters this week the Bills will show some dramatic improvement. Key word here is hopeful!

 

Cheers

[Doc]

They addressed the OL because they had no other starting caliber guards and were forced to draft two high in 2009. It doesn't excuse the fact that their depth this season consists of more UDFA's, and late round picks with no experience. Apparently Chester Pitts and a few others were too expensive to provide interior depth should an inevitable injury occur.

So...they addressed the interior OL, like I said. They also had RT set at the time of the draft and up until Butler got injured. I've said repeatedly that their handling of Walker/the LT position was poor.

 

There's a trend here, and it's a lack of foresight from the front office. Was it necessary to select McKelvin in 2008? Not really, but it'd be real nice to have a Ryan Clady (yes, he's injured) rather than clearance rack caliber OT's like Bell, Meredith, and Green. They knew that Peters would be an issue, yet they did nothing to insure themselves against a holdout, which they knew was coming.

Lack of foresight? So you think the Bills should have drafted a LT in 2008, expecting Peters to holdout all off-season and pre-season and force a trade the following year? Or draft a RT when they already spent money on Walker and figured that Butler could play RT (although they should have figured that he'd miss most of the 2009 season and then retire)? Why not double-up on every position, given this supposed inexhaustible supply of high draft picks?

It's real easy to lose 10 years running. But it's going to be a lot harder for you to keep making excuses for a moribund franchise. I suppose you'll say later this season that it was a rebuilding campaign anyway. That's a defeatist mentality.

The franchise is what it is. As I've been saying, few coaches and players want to play in Buffalo for a variety of reasons. You can't force people to sign with you or even make them play well. I mean, how many native Buffalonians are getting the hell out of there?

 

But beyond that, they've made mistakes no doubt. Why anyone thinks the Bills sucking was Ralph's plan all along is anyone's guess, though.